On a personal note. I have no problem with abandonware

Yeah but obviously the people in this thread wasted their time just
because YOU think it doesn't matter.

wd,

Oh please dont make me laugh. Coming from a "dosbox author" that really is funny.

The application of which you help author is a boon for people playing abandonware. True or false? It aids them in their *nefarious* activities does it not?

Boy are you hypocrites! Its a bit like some Colombian drug baron feigning sadness that drug addicts kill eachother ove this product.

You guys need to be a bit more consistent. If it really jams you up as much as you pretend then why are you making it so freely available?

Lets analyse this a bit more just for fun:

During testing dosbox for all the games listed on the official dosbox site..is a licence owned for each and every one of those games? Who tested it and where and when did they *buy* the original game?

Exactly, you and i know that abandonware has been used to test dosbox on various games. If you cannot see the folly of your holier than thou attitude then you need to get out a bit more.
Smae goes for Addict.

And once again, i bought xcom years ago so i have done nothing illegal and you guys must not have alot to do if you can spend this much time bitching about people coming here about abandonware when its probably more than 80% of the traffic.

Grow up.

@ WD: Coldcall has wasted our time? I wouldn't say that. The problems he's had with this game are the same than legit users who have updated to v1.4. This thread will be helpful to them too.

@ Coldcall: You have to understand WD's situation: Abandonware is in a very complex legal situation, and he nor anybody else in the board want to draw unwanted attention to this board.

And I think the tone you've used is also completely out of the line.

This said, I'll be the first to admit that some members of these board are too hard on newbies and also often abussive on users who admit using abandonware versions of supported games. Which makes about 99% of us, even if many of us we prefer not to come out of the closet.

Its a bit like some Colombian drug baron

Interesting comparison. Sucks though. And the compatibility list is
solely user-mainained.

Grow up.

Yes, really hope you do.

The problems he's had with this game are the same than legit users who have updated to v1.4

No. Read Addict's reply.

Neville

I just dont believe in coming here and making up some tale in order not to offend sensitivities. I dont lie - stopped lying when i was about 30 years old.

I can understand if this board gets unwanted notice as some sort of Abandonware sanctuary or such. But then a polite "please dont mention abandonware" would be a better way for Addict et al to deal with this issue.

They have ben extremly rude to me and I apologise if you feel my response was out of line ( your advice has been very helpful - thankyou) but I am an adult and robustly defend my rights.

Instead they come across as holier than thou and make a morality song and dance. My view is that they are crying crocodile tears.

I stated very near to the beginning of this thread that I owned that game legally and lost the CD. I even named the Powerhouse budget title i bought it on just t show I am being honest, but it made no difference to Addict and wd - they pipe in with their shock about my finding a playable version of xcom - which of course i already owned.

My view on abandonware is that it is perfectly legal to use for games which you have already purchased. Many games released before the cd format came into being are on floppy disks. How many people still have a PC with floppy drive? I certainly dont...so it makes any games i originally bought on floppy useless. When i boutght the game..there was no time limit on its usage. When you buy a book..does it suddenly become useless?

I have every right to protect my interests as a consumer and I am afraid those over-ride the disproportionate sense of overt ethical hsyteria exhibited by Messiers Wd and Addict.

Wd,

No the comparison is dead on, though of course cocaine is far more harmful to the health and wellbeing of human beings.

It is hypocriticial to be supported by a community which overhwelmingly uses this application for abandonware and then start moralising about it.

If on the other hand, this is just a performance in order to satisfy their own sense of guilt then they are just saddos.

Next time guys, just be polite and dont make assumptions about the legitimacy of a posters question based on what you *think* to be the case.

It really appears as if you just cant wait to jump out of your sandbox and pontificate about the evils of abandonware.

Anways to those that kindly helped me sort out my problem - thank you very much.

Just one last note.

I think dosbox is an excellent tool and would be prepared to pay for it, like all my software. Im sure most people, and even those that use abandonware without haveing previously owned such and such game - would pay anywhere between 20-30 quid for it. I sure would considering the amount of pleasure it brings from playing my old favourites.

Howabout if dosbox went commercial and a certain amout of the money went to a fund...like a performing arts royalty scheme and was given to old game designers who have fallen on hard times...etc..or even sent to a games industry body to do with as they see fit.

Just an idea and a way for people to put the abandonware scene on a fully legal footing with the blessing of the games industry.

It is hypocriticial to be supported by a community which overhwelmingly
uses this application for abandonware and then start moralising about it.

I don't see any such support. It's a pure free-time thing, and only driven
by the interest of various people in pc architecture and old games.
And for me, the interest rapidly decreases with each and every single
such discussion as in this thread.

Oh and if you, as user of rightfully acquired old games want to donate,
then just donate some money to Qbix.

I can understand if this board gets unwanted notice as some sort of Abandonware sanctuary or such. But then a polite "please dont mention abandonware" would be a better way for Addict et al to deal with this issue.

A polite "please dont mention abandonware" doesn't work. Most people don't even know what abandonware is. Most of the people that do know the term "abandonware" don't even realize that abandonware isn't even real or illegal.

Abandonware is a concept made up by the community for software that is supposedly "abandoned" by companies. Typically defined as 5 years. This is bullshit. Software isn't "abandoned" until the copyright is expired.

So a simple "please dont mention abandonware" has to be followed up by a big explanation on what the concept is. Probably a link to wikipedia would be sufficient but even then MOST PEOPLE WHO ASK QUESTIONS ON FORUMS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ or do not want to.

They have ben extremly rude to me and I apologise if you feel my response was out of line ( your advice has been very helpful - thankyou) but I am an adult and robustly defend my rights.

Yeah, alot of comments can come across as rude. There's not much you can do about it except to call them on it and grow a hide. People are cruel. It's a cruel world. This shouldn't be news to you.

Instead they come across as holier than thou and make a morality song and dance. My view is that they are crying crocodile tears.

It's hard to say. Most people are pretty honest when it comes to computer software in my opinion. So called "piracy" (wrong term of course), of home users copying software for free is overexageratted. What else are we going to do though? "Abandonware" is not legal nor a legal term. "Abandonware" is not real. Therefore as such is not officially recognized on these forums nor supported.

I stated very near to the beginning of this thread that I owned that game legally and lost the CD. I even named the Powerhouse budget title i bought it on just t show I am being honest, but it made no difference to Addict and wd - they pipe in with their shock about my finding a playable version of xcom - which of course i already owned.

My view on abandonware is that it is perfectly legal to use for games which you have already purchased. Many games released before the cd format came into being are on floppy disks. How many people still have a PC with floppy drive? I certainly dont...so it makes any games i originally bought on floppy useless. When i boutght the game..there was no time limit on its usage. When you buy a book..does it suddenly become useless?

Your view on what is legal or not is not the issue. What is the issue is what is legal or not according to the owners of the copyright of the software. That is what is important here. Your personal views on the legality ofcopying software is not important.

Why don't you have a floppy drive? Is it too hard to put one in your computer? Too hard to buy a USB floppy drive? What's the problem here? Too lazy? The floppies are perfectly useable (if they are still in good condition), all you need to do is get off your ass and buy a floppy drive.

It's like if you buy a book but your blind. Do you whine because you can't see and you bought the book anyway or do you buy a braile or an audio version of the book?

I have every right to protect my interests as a consumer and I am afraid those over-ride the disproportionate sense of overt ethical hsyteria exhibited by Messiers Wd and Addict.

Your interests have nothing to do with the legality of copying software, unless the software is your own copyrighted software.

It is hypocriticial to be supported by a community which overhwelmingly uses this application for abandonware and then start moralising about it.

How do you know what DosBox is "overwhelmingly" used for abandonware? Do you have any proof of this? If not then please STFU and go hang out with your buddy, Pres Bush.

It really appears as if you just cant wait to jump out of your sandbox and pontificate about the evils of abandonware.

Abandonware doesn't exist except in the minds of people wanting software because they are too much of a douchebag to pay for it.

Wd,

The abandonware community does support dosbox because otherwise there would not be a massive forum such as this one. Their traffic is supporting the dosbox brand. It is still a brand even though it is freely available. And I would assume many people who have an opposite opinion to you on the legalities of Abadonware, give alot of support in either tech specifications or other areas to the dosbox project and its continued development.

If someone using Abandonware comes on and gives other users alot of help about getting certain games running, is he/she not considered as part of the community for dosbox?

I find the way you have cut the world up into delineated segments based aroudn the ethics of the abandonware issue pretty simplistic.

@coldcall - just a few comments:

Please don't intermix the use of 'legal/illegal' with '(morally) right/wrong'. There are things that in the eye of the law are clearly legal, and things that are clearly illegal. And those things does not automatically map to right and wrong for you and me.

I agree with you that you are morally right in re-acquiring an old game (that you have previous bought a license to use) from any source possible. But that does not automatically mean that what you do is legal ("i bought xcom years ago so i have done nothing illegal") - unless the copyright and licensing laws in your part of the world differs substantially from those in Sweden.

I can't speak for ADDICT, but my adversity against trying to help people with copies of games obtained from obscure sources, is that it over and over and over again has been demonstrated, that the problems has NOTHING to do with DOSBox, but EVERYTHING to do with the way the un-official copy has been repackaged. Either with missing audio files in order to keep the size of the download down, missing configuration utilities, weird paths in configuration files, or any other multitude of problems.

These problems, which we can not know anything about, translates in wasted time and efforts by the more experienced members of this forum. And I don't like that kind of waste.

One wonders, why the people that download these games comes here for their support? Is it because the sites where they download from don't have support forums of their own? Do their support suck? Or do the screwy software that people download from that site suck? You tell me?

Edit: DosFreak beat me to it with some of his comments. coldcall - consider taking your business to the forums at dosgames.com. They have a more lenient attitude to this "abandonware" thing.

Edit 2:

coldcall wrote:

And I would assume many people who have an opposite opinion to you on the legalities of Abadonware

Opinions are like ass-holes - everyone is entitled to one, and have one 😀

Dosfreak,

"A polite "please dont mention abandonware" doesn't work. Most people don't even know what abandonware is. Most of the people that do know the term "abandonware" don't even realize that abandonware isn't even real or illegal"

Well its a widely used term for the concept of abandonware. You may not think its real though there are hundreds of websites which are very real. I havent seen them closed down as has been the case (rightly so) for filesharing Wares sites and software.

"Yeah, alot of comments can come across as rude. There's not much you can do about it except to call them on it and grow a hide. People are cruel. It's a cruel world. This shouldn't be news to you."

I have called them up on it but i have managed to remain polite .I take exception to people saying i need a slap. They wouldnt say it my face so I can only consider it a rather rude comment. Adults should be able to get their point across without lowering the tone.

"Why don't you have a floppy drive? Is it too hard to put one in your computer? Too hard to buy a USB floppy drive? What's the problem here? Too lazy? The floppies are perfectly useable (if they are still in good condition), all you need to do is get off your ass and buy a floppy drive"

Because i dont want a floppy drive, and while you may love playing with old bits of hardware I frankly have better things to spend my time on. And who are you to tell me what kind of hardware i should have and that looking for solutions around that is illegal from a software licensees perspective? Whe i have bought that software? I am on pefectly fine legal grounding in pursuing my rights as a consumer.

Frankly you are talking bollocks with this view about the unquestiobale rights of copyright holders vs us poor mugs - the consumer.

"It's like if you buy a book but your blind. Do you whine because you can't see and you bought the book anyway or do you buy a braile or an audio version of the book? "

Thats a silly comparison. A blind person is not so stupid as to buy a non-braile book.

Howabout this one: Software companies have to produce quality and non-broken product. Software companies get away with murder - compared to every other sector of industry. They release broken software, expetc the punter to spend days on it, and then be told he needs a patch to continue.
Does the Software compamny recompense the individual for their lost time?

No of course they dont. So get off your high and mighty attitude that the sun shines out of the ass of copyright holders.

"How do you know what DosBox is "overwhelmingly" used for abandonware? Do you have any proof of this? If not then please STFU and go hang out with your buddy, Pres Bush. "

Thats a really stupid comment. You are so desperate you equate me with George Bush? Are you a fucking moron or just acting?

Dont tell me to shut the fuck up. And next time say it in real words and not be such a flappy little coward.

Now fuck off cuntrag

No im signing out of this one.

Dosfreak is a little cunt who has made my blood boil and i really have better things to do than get involved ina flamewar with a tosspot like him.

Thanks for helping me get xcom 1 running.

I will leave you lot to argue amongst yourselves.

George Bush *was* the one that made up his own "proofs" and had Colin Powell present said proof to the UN. Guess that is what DosFreak is referring to.

Anyway... This thread needs to be closed. coldcall has called it quits.

I'm out too. I didn't enter a UFO - Enemy Unknown thread to waste my energy in a discussion about abandonware.

coldcall, i believe you are/were pushing this discussion in the wrong direction.

My original comment was not meant to be a statement pro or contra abandonware per se, but an expression of a slight feeling of anger. The reason?

I can't speak for ADDICT, but my adversity against trying to help people with copies of games obtained from obscure sources, is that it over and over and over again has been demonstrated, that the problems has NOTHING to do with DOSBox, but EVERYTHING to do with the way the un-official copy has been repackaged.

Couldn't have said it better than that. Try to see it from my point of view: to verify the problem, i've installed two versions of the game, and played around with the settings for quite some time. I wrote a lenghty, detailed post about my findings. I basically wasted my time trying to solve a problem that didn't exist in the first place. I believe you should be able to understand that this is quite frustrating.

And on the "Abandonware" topic: ask a lawyer or judge about that term, in any country on this planet. I bet anyone you ask will tell you that a thing like "Abandonware" (like we use and understand it) doesn't exist "officially", in any lawbook. The term is just an euphemism for "pirating old games". This is a fact, no matter what your personal opinion is.

Coldcall - you know it's people such as yourself that ruin the good part of abandonware. Communities have worked hard to seperate the old warez and abandonware terms, but then people come along and blur the lines and start flaming those they don't agree with.

First of all whether or not you think it is morally right - abandonware is illegal. Case closed.

Some folks (like myself) support the idea of distrubuting unsold copies of games, to keep the oldies living on. However we don't dilude ourselves into thinking it's legal. Much like smokers of pot - we do it because it's a passion and we take care knowing full well it's a tricky legal slope.

However frankly you mentioned X-com, of which one of their games is still sold over steam. Eventually Xcom 1 will be added as well. So you will have no excuse. Theres also ebay if you want to take that route.

Anyway flaming members of the dosbox forums just because they choose the legal route isn't a good idea. DOSBox is not illegal. The members of the DOSBox team would like to continue their work, and thus choose to stay clear of legal battles. Having people like you come on here and say "I got this from HOTU/Abandonia" doesn't help things.

Next time if you really need help with a game don't go advertising where you got it from. Also in the defence of the members here MANY of these games can be ripped and edited, thus are nearly impossible to tell if the problem is the game, dosbox or the crack method used.

abandonware after all is just 'good intention' old warez. It's still warez no matter what and there are no legal exception to the urles

You know, I'm broadly sympathetic to you here, attitude apart, but:

i dont want a floppy drive

You claim that others are talking bollocks and readily cry consumer rights, and yet the prevailing situation - which is readily evident just by taking a look at the music industry and the furore surrounding digital media - is that you own the copy you bought in the format you bought it, not whatever format you're inclined to use on a given day. You might not like someone else "telling you" what kind of hardware you should have, but if you make an active decision not to retain the hardware you require to run a game, then that decision is on your head and yours alone.

Thats a silly comparison. A blind person is not so stupid as to buy a non-braile book.

That's precisely why it's a perfect example.

Targaff wrote:

Thats a silly comparison. A blind person is not so stupid as to buy a non-braile book.

That's precisely why it's a perfect example.

I for one don't like the idea that the copyright owner/seller can dictate to me in what format I can enjoy the work.

Re-think the situation with that blind person with his/her non-braille book... He/she is not allowed to hand me, a seeing person the book, and have me translate it into braille text? Or read it out loud and make a recording of it on cassette tape?