On one hand, i agree with most of what you say, MiniMax. But, on the other hand, i'm really getting the feeling that VOGONS (the DOSBox related sections, at least) is getting quite a cold and chilly place lately. I think i read posts where users tried to be helpful (more or less), but got a sarcastic answer anyway. I have no ultimate solution for the "balance" of the "feeling" of an answer, but i thought it may be time to write a small reminder to ourselves about being nice, even to n00bs (; .

I'm for a bit more friendly newbie atmosphere at the dosbox section, but this should be a collective move by all regular posters, as writing a long helpful text for a newbie drains a lot of resources and hence the "burden" should be shared among all regulars. I don't mind writing a helpful post to a newbie once a day, but not more then that.

Maybe the following system is more appropriate: If you don't post something constructive then refrain from posting to that thread (and hope somebody else does) and a general message that if you don't recieve an answer to your post that you probably have to read the documentation of DOSBox. Not sure if this will work though.

If you don't post something constructive then refrain from posting to that thread (and hope somebody else does)

This would probably work better. Personally I'll try to do that.

and a general message that if you don't recieve an answer to your post that you probably have to read the documentation of DOSBox

Not so sure about that one, mostly because oI wonder how that would be done. If you attach this to every new post it probably gets annoying fast and if you have it in a sticky, the people that mostly annoy won't read it. Maybe, and I really don't know if that is in any way doable with the forum software, have such a message appar for first time posters in the Dosbox forum only...

If you don't post something constructive then refrain from posting to that thread

Hard to do sometimes, but sounds like the best way to handle it. I just need something to bite into when reading stupid posts. (;

Maybe we could agree on a generic text that can be pasted into threads that do not receive an immediate answer (because there was not enough info, abandonware related stuff, etc.). The info would be redundant for sure, but it would be "in the face" of the OP, so he'd be forced to read it.

I think that text should contain a link to the DOSBox FAQ, a notice to read the ReadMe (in BOLD LETTERS!), and a short description of what info is needed to troubleshoot. Maybe a sentence or two about the overwhelming amount of posts from "lazy" users, and the limited time resources of the "regulars" and devs, for explanation. And a notice that we won't support any "Abandonware" related stuff, besides giving basic information. Maybe we also should have a look at the FAQ. To be honest, i haven't really read it until now. We could include "hot" forum topics quickly into the FAQ, so a quick notice of "Read the FAQ!" would be sufficient. I'm thinking about the "MacOS fullscreen/color problem", for example - i'm pretty sure this isn't in the FAQ yet. Keeping the FAQ up to date may require a little effort (maybe even organization), but could be beneficial for all parties in the end.

ADDiCT, a lot of the information you suggest is already available in my boilerplate respons:

60 Seconds Guide to DOSBox. […]
Show full quote

60 Seconds Guide to DOSBox.

If that doesn't help, come back with details on how you mounted your C and D drives, how you did the install, how you configured sound, music etc.
_________________
DOSBox ReadMe | DOSBox Wiki | DOSBox 60 seconds guide | How to ask questions

To that end, I heartly recommend the program AutoHotkey. I have it configured to automagically replace the text db60sg<TAB> with the above mentioned text.

An easily updated FAQ would be great - and that is what the DOSBox Wiki is for. Feel free to edit it, feel free to create an alternative FAQ if you think the current is FUBAR.

i'm not sure if a generic post is the solution. especially if it doesn't contain the answer they want.
It's better then nothing though.

In any case update the posting rules at
Follow These Guidelines When Submitting Help Requests
and have people submit full bug reports. This especially INCLUDES
that they state that they searched for information themselves and
tried to find help in the readme.

Mabye don't respond to a post unless they follow the posting rules?

Then it's easy. Didn't follow the posting rules in your post? Thread locked with a post to a link to the rules.

I would suggest three generic posts specifying:

1. tone, attitude, appropriateness, "not nice", whatever you want to call it,
2. legibility, readability, understandability, comprehensibility, "WTF are you asking", whatever, and
3. NEED INFO, we can't help you otherwise, and list the most common info that people leave out and telling/reminding them that it's designed for gaming only

each with something at the bottom regarding us all having lives, even the hyper-nerds that work on DOSBox and have posted here 3,000 times
as to 1337, here, my fist post, I was excited to communicate with other people like me (people who know l33t, even if they don't use it) and I also thought it might help me fit in and/or seem less noobish
also something about the most common questions/complaints and mistakes, common to the point of "Can you help me?" at the end getting "Yes, I can," or "No, there's no help for you," or even "GTFO, n00b!", like printer support or posting in the wrong place, and specifically mention Milliways (it's been a godsend for me)
and might I suggest a link here? 😉

One of the problems I feel is the difficulty in searching posts for what you are looking for. The search features of the forum are extremely basic or undocumented.

Speaking of documentation, DOSBox still lacks comprehensive documentation from a newbie's perspective. I think a manual is needed instead of a readme/FAQ file.

I can understand the increasing impatience of the regulars reading the same stupid posts over and over again. Some people really expect you to do all the work for them. You will never really learn how to do something until you do it yourself.

The search features of the forum are extremely basic or undocumented.

Seems to work rather fine if you use something like "+test +string" for searching.
The usual "test string" gives the OR'd results.

DOSBox still lacks comprehensive documentation from a newbie's perspective

The guide threads seem good for this, but feel free to improve them.

Frankly I can tolerate newbies who didn't try Google first, as long as they're descriptive about the problem. For example, if they mention the system they tried to run the game on (DOSBOX, real DOS, etc), at what specific step did they fail to run the game (fail to install, succeed to install but fail to run), as well as posting screenshots or error messages, I have to reservation of helping them --as long as I'm able to, of course.

However, newbies who just lazily ask "ZOMG i D0WNL04D TEH PR1NCE OOF PERS14 AND i AM CAN NO RUN TEH G4ME" deserve to get re-directed to goatse. 🤣

ADDiCT wrote:

i'm really getting the feeling that VOGONS (the DOSBox related sections, at least) is getting quite a cold and chilly place lately.

Well, maybe we need some bar brawl TGOD to lighten up! *stomps general_vagueness's testicles for no reason*

At abandonware-forums, we've hacked the vBulletin template to redirect the "new post" button on the troubleshooting forum to the posting guidelines, with a link at the bottom of the posting guidelines to the real new post form (we had to add a custom bb tag for the link, since the standard url tag opens links in new windows, which is not desired in this circumstance).

The posting guidelines start with a big bold "Please read this if you want your post to be answered". it then includes the places to look for help, what info to provide if these links are not helpful, why it's important to provide it, and why they may get harsh answers if they don't provide it. We then add that if they don't know how to determine some of their specs, they just have to state it and we will help them find out (in order not to scare the more clueless of the bunch).
Follows a kind "Thanks for reading" sentence, then the link.

After this, if someone misbehaves, you don't have to feel bad slamming him 😁, since it's impossible not to be exposed to the guidelines...

Something that needs to be stated is that newbies having a problem with a program should write the exact name of the program. A sure trigger that makes me go into "newbie smash" mode is "my program does not run!" and it takes another five postings to get this person to write down 1.the name of the program and 2. the EXACT mounting commands.

I've seen it happen on several of the forums I post one. Longtime members keep seeing the same questions over and over. The person asking for help hasn't did a proper search or even read the documentation. Many times their problem has been the first hit on google. One thing I use frequently is the Google site search. Some forums don't have the best search engine so you can always type "site:www.sitename.com search term" in Google to search just that site.

It's hard to read tone or sometimes sarcasm in an online conversation too. Some things might come across a little harsh even when that was not the intent. It does seem like etiquette and common courtesy is falling by the wayside these days compared to the old BBS days or even the pre-Internet rush of the mid 90s. Maybe it's the anonymous nature of the net, people will say things there that they would never say to someone's face.

That being said, I try to help when I can, and I appreciate the help that people here have given me.

By the power invested in me I have split your Goatze drivel into a new thread. Please keep it there.

Xian97 wrote:

The person asking for help hasn't did a proper search or even read the documentation. Many times their problem has been the first hit on google.

Most of these are filtered out by the forced disclaimer display, because they don't read it until the link to the real new post form.

Snover/Qbix, what do you think of this?

All that's needed is to read the forum number variable when viewforum.php is displayed, and replace the link of the "new" button to target a static page with the posting guidelines when needed.

Here's the relevant doc for conditionals in phpBB v2: http://web.archive.org/web/20041205063950/www … ?article_id=200

I like the idea. but how do they do post in the end ?

You put a link at the end of the disclaimer, pointing to posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=... ideally not at the very end of the text, in order not to make it stand out too much.

Also, the posting guidelines should be extremely newbie friendly thus relatively verbose. Verbosity scares off the wrong kind of newbies 😀.

For usability reasons, I'd generate a static page (based on the VOGONS layout), because phpbb's url tags open links in new windows, which is not the desired behaviour here (unless it's possible to add your own tags like in vBulletin. I created a localurl tag at a/w forums, which behaves properly).