bluegrazz wrote:

I downloaded the D-Fend reloaded and a game called Master of Magic.

Does this mean that you downloaded the game, too?

Yes, I got the game from an abondonware site that was listed in the D-Fend Programs "old games" section so I imagine its compatible.

You will want to ask where you downloaded it from for help. Abandonware is not tolerated here, and as such you will not find much help on VOGONS. There are several places that you can obtain legitimate copies of old games.

if "abandonware is not tolerated here" please tell me why the software D-Fend directly linked me to a site called Abandonia where it explains that this is LEGAL and where I downloaded the game from. I am not coming here to ask how to set up an illegal copy but a copy of an ABANDONWARE game that this software DIRECTLY LINKED ME TO.
I think you have ABANDONWARE confused with something else

where it explains that this is LEGAL

This is wrong.
And please stop shouting.

please explain. If this is illegal, why are you supporting a piece of software (D-Fend Reloaded) that lists these abandonware sites as the places to find games and directly links to them?
I have read that this is legal and if it were not I would not do it (I also would not use software that supported illegal means of obtaining games). I want to play many of the games I have paid for already (in the 1980's on a C64, Amiga and IBM PC) and some of the games I have never tried but have wanted to. Its my understanding that when a publisher abandons a game and there is no copyright holder (or the game becomes released for free by the publisher, I.E. Arena) it becomes Abandonware.
If this does in fact turn out to be illegal/unethical, I would delete not only the game I have downloaded, but this software that promotes around 10 Abandonware websites as places to get your games.

why are you supporting a piece of software

We don't want abandonware links on the forum. If somebody else feels
fine with cluttering his program with that, it's beyond our reach.
Besides that i wasn't aware of it.

when a publisher abandons a game

This almost never happens. And "abandonware" is no judicial term.

I want to play many of the games I have paid for already

Then dig out your old disks instead of downloading stuff.

bluegrazz wrote:

Its my understanding that when a publisher abandons a game and there is no copyright holder (or the game becomes released for free by the publisher, I.E. Arena) it becomes Abandonware.
If this does in fact turn out to be illegal/unethical, I would delete not only the game I have downloaded, but this software that promotes around 10 Abandonware websites as places to get your games.

Software is not "abandoned" (stupid term) until the copyright expires.

A Publisher will NEVER "abandon" their software. They may never update it, acknowledge it's existence or use it ever again but they will never "abandon" it. It's their software to do with as they please by law.

D-Fend Reloaded is not a frontend created by the DOSBox developers. It was created by a user just like you. We have no say on what it does or does not link to.

There's no reason to stop using D-Fend Reloaded. Linking to Abandonware websites isn't illegal, AFAIK.

Abandonia is pretty good at only offering games that are no longer copyrighted and that Publishers haven't contacted them about but it's still an Abandonware site which means we don't want to have anything to do with it on these forums.

Open D-Fend reloaded. Go to the tab in the upper right that says "help" . A drop down menu (The same drop down menu that brings me to this forum where I have posted) will give you the direct links to 11 sites that are all free game/abandonware sites. That is where I got the game from, a site that explains that this completely legal.
Digging out 5 inch floppys to play on this laptop (considering its been 20 years and I was just a kid and have long since lost track of my ancient software) is not exactly an option.
In close, I asked for help and you are obviously not going to give me any (nor explain how this is illegal/unethical) so essentially you have stated your opinion and hopefully someone will answer my question.

So a website on the Internet tells you that it's legal to download software for free and you believe them? If so I have this bridge I'd like to sell to ya....

Just because your too lazy to keep track of and migrate your data doesn't mean it's okay to break the law.

Frankly we don't care what the hell you do. Just don't mention aquiring abandonware on this site.

Arrrg again an abandonware discussion...

1.)
Abandon sites are also great resources for game information. That's why they are in this link list together with pure game info sites like Moby Games and The Legacy. I've never said anything of "... as places to get your games".

2.)
I've never said the games offered there are "compatible" with D-Fend Reloaded. Even more, when you click one of the "Old games" links in the help menu a message box appers saying "The website you want to open does not belong to the D-Fend Reloaded project." I thought this was clearly to understand. And until now I haven't seen any "compatible with frontend ..." at any abandonded ware site.

3.)
The message box also says "All linked abandonded ware sites say from themselves they offer only games for download when this is permitted." That does not mean:
- "say from themselves" = "I say"
- This is right in all cases for all games in all countries.
- I have checked this for all downloads.

bluegrazz wrote:

If this is illegal, why are you supporting a piece of software (D-Fend Reloaded) that lists these abandonware sites as the places to find games and directly links to them?

What do you want ? Do you want to make the admins kick me from this forum or what ?

DosFreak wrote:

There's no reason to stop using D-Fend Reloaded. Linking to Abandonware websites isn't illegal, AFAIK,

Thank you.

bluegrazz wrote:

A drop down menu (The same drop down menu that brings me to this forum where I have posted) will give you the direct links to 11 sites that are all free game/abandonware sites.

First of all: There are 13 links - and 5 of them will lead you to sites with download options. So most sites listed there are pure information sites.

bluegrazz wrote:

That is where I got the game from, a site that explains that this completely legal.

Aha, "a site that explains..."

I think I will remove the links for the next release. Why there are always user making problems from everything. (BTW DFR 0.5.0 will have a Windows exe dectection of solve the "What does 'This file can not be run in DOS mode.' mean?" question finally and some other hints and automatic warnings.)

First off I am not trying to "make problems" for you or anyone else. I just recently learned of your program to run DOS games on windows and about abandonware games.... I thought this was completely legal and came here seeking help to get the game to run.
It would seem a plethora of elitist jerks reside here, as a simple explanation and or response other than the answers I received would been helpful.
You all have been rather rude and not helpful at all. You say "You read it on a website and you believe it?" well, am I supposed to trust a random person on a forum? How about a link (oh yeah, a link would take me a website and we cannot trust whats written there.)
I was not giving links to any abandonware sites on this sacred forum, merely asking about abandonware. You people act like a grave sin has been committed......As I stated, if this is illegal, I would erase it immediatly and if I knew it was illegal I never would have downloaded it.
I could have easily said I needed help with the game Arena (just downloaded it from BETHESDA and the setup looks similar to the other game and thus would give me the knowledge I would need to run any of these games.)
Anyhow, thanks anyhow. Sorry I desecrated your holy sanctum with the mere mention of abandonware. May I suffer in the eternal fires of hell.

bluegrazz wrote:

I thought this was completely legal and came here seeking help to get the game to run.
<snip>
You all have been rather rude and not helpful at all. You say "You read it on a website and you believe it?" well, am I supposed to trust a random person on a forum? How about a link (oh yeah, a link would take me a website and we cannot trust whats written there.)

You, me, and my dog, should never trust a single person, a single web site, or a newspaper article. What we should do is look up various sources, ask various people, and then make up our mind about what is fact, and what is fiction.

Just for the fun of it, I did a search on Google for "legality of abandonware". This is the first 20 hits:

Google wrote:

Abandonware: Blogs, Photos, Videos and more on Technorati The legality of abandonware is a little dubious (and this site a littl […]
Show full quote

Abandonware: Blogs, Photos, Videos and more on Technorati
The legality of abandonware is a little dubious (and this site a little more so than usual — I’m not sure Blizzard has given ...
technorati.com/tag/Abandonware

Power Mac 5500 & Mac OS 8.6 - Mac Forums
1 jul 2008 ... There is the questionability of legality on abandonware where you may get a copy. However someone may be willing to give up their legal copy ...
forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=508957

Abandonware FAQs
Briefly explains legality issues with abandonware. What types of abandonware are there? Explains some different types of abandonware software. ...
compactiongames.about.com/od/abandonwarefaqs/Abandonware_FAQs.htm

freeware? Mechcommander games - Overclockers NZ Forums
Minor clarification: Abandonware is not legal. For those amongst us who don't care about such ethical issues then ignore the above. raptor is offline ...
forums.overclockers.co.nz/showthread.php?t=23520

Brass Lantern Warez Abandonware and the Software Industry
The abandonware users skirt along the border of legality, sometimes obtaining permission for their actions, oftentimes not; in the meantime, ...
www.brasslantern.org/community/companies/warez.html

The Abandonware Dilemma - The INQUIRER
Since the legal status of abandonware sites isn't always clear, and because there are a lot of great classic games out there, it seemed prudent to address ...
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2 … donware-dilemma

View topic - Free Games - PC Gamer Magazine
ummm... That's not freeware. That's (possibly) abandonware. Which is not what this thread is for. The legality of abandonware is dubious. ...
computerandvideogames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?start=125&t=15173

Abandonware & free antivirus software - CNET Community Newsletter ...
9 jul 2005 ... What about abandonware? That is a very similar issue to the legality of stuff people download off Kazaa. I know for a fact there's plenty of ...
forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=102069&messageID=1177861

The Abandonware Debate - Associated Content
As the name might imply, abandonware is software, typically gaming, ... forcing abandonware websites to remove download links or face legal consequences. ...
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/9402 … are_debate.html

Best Abandonware [Archive] - RPGnet Forums
11 jun 2004 ... [Archive] Best Abandonware Other Games Open. ... I'd point out that if you are concerned with legality, then the Square games mentioned ...
forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-127748.html

Computer Role-Playing Fanatic: The Classic CRPGs are Alive and ...
For anyone interested in the history and legality of abandonware, there is an excellent article which explains it better than I could. DOS game you cry! ...
crpgfan.blogspot.com/2008/01/classic-crpgs-are-alive-and-playable.html

Classic PC Games You Have To Play
8 jul 2008 ... but they're tried and true and most of them can be found with varying degrees of legality as abandonware on the internet. ...
www.brighthub.com/Video-Games/PC/articles/2395.aspx

Digg - USA Legalizes Abandonware
This DOES NOT make abandonware legal. That would be like taking away an artists copyrights just because they haven't published an album on the newest media. ...
digg.com/gaming_news/USA_Legalizes_Abandonware

Abandonware Definition, What is Abandonware
The term has no legal meaning. This means that labeling any kind of software 'abandonware' does not make it legal to make copies of it or publish it on a ...
www.networkliquidators.com/definition-abandonware.asp

Abandonware Petition
Abandonware Petition, hosted at PetitionOnline.com. ... one of the many Abandonware sites that are in operation, regardless of the legality of such things. ...
www.petitiononline.com/oldgame/petition.html

Nintendo Wii Roms +
Because of abandonware would conflict with the stated goal of granting "exclusive ... The legality of obtaining such games varies from country to country. ...
www.nintendowiiemulators.com/wii-roms.htm

Legality - Abandonia Reloaded Forum
Well, anyway, I guess everything before XP is abandonware. ok.gif ... have not received the answer to: is this program, still legal, freeware or shareware. ...
http://www.reloaded.org/forum/index.php?s=d37 … view=getnewpost

ROM image - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3 Internet distribution; 4 Hacks and fan translations; 5 Legal status. 5.1 Private ownership; 5.2 Official licenses; 5.3 Unlicensed ROMs; 5.4 Abandonware ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_image

FreeGameDev: Game Ideas => "It's a knock-out!" - Boxing Game
Ok, since "abandonware" (aka warez with 'not sold' excuses) is 'okay' here, that means I shall stop supporting this site. If legal matters can not be taken ...
forum.freegamedev.net/index.php?t=msg&th=438&start=0&S=2cce9dea962090f204e08d2b014a9aa6

Now do a quick skim through the results, then tell me how you could come to the conclusion that "I thought this was completely legal"? Maybe you wanted it to be legal and your brain filtered out the unwanted info?

bluegrazz wrote:

It would seem a plethora of elitist jerks reside here, as a simple explanation and or response other than the answers I received would been helpful.

Yes, we are the elite, but I don't think we are jerks, just cranky old men. What you fail to notice is that this forum is hosted by Zetafleet, and they have a strict policy regarding anything that is illegal - simply to ensure that this forum will not be targeted by hardware and software companies and forced to shut down. It is that simple. And we as moderators do our best to keep it that way.

bluegrazz wrote:

I was not giving links to any abandonware sites on this sacred forum, merely asking about abandonware. You people act like a grave sin has been committed......As I stated, if this is illegal, I would erase it immediatly and if I knew it was illegal I never would have downloaded it.

Personally, I think it is a sin. I would never do anything morally wrong just to save a little money. I would be tempted if I could get away with 20 milliion $, and for 100 million $ I would not hesitate. But not for $5-10. So I buy my games (Bought these games today, Re: Bought these games today) and enjoy the boxes and the art work that comes with them. And I think you should do the same.

bluegrazz wrote:

I could have easily said I needed help with the game Arena (just downloaded it from BETHESDA and the setup looks similar to the other game and thus would give me the knowledge I would need to run any of these games.)

Yes. The fact that you did not indicate that you were a bit lazy, and wanted us to provide you with a solution instead of spending the extra time required to get some other game up and running.

Well, luckily I found this site http://www.classicgamingpresents.com/store/pr … CFQbJsgodWHgxTw which sells all the old games on a digital download basis for around $6.00 AND they run on XP (No D-Fend reloaded required)
Yes, you people are jerks. I have no problem paying $5, $10, even $50 for a game. As stated, I was under the impression there were no legal issues here or I would have never downloaded the game to begin with. I certainly understand that ROM's are illegal but a 20+ year old game that is not published any longer and only available as a used copy (isnt THAT illegal? I cannot even return open software due to legality, but its okay to buy opened and used software from ebay? Does the publisher, dev team or anyone see any of that money?) seems odd that its so offensive to you all. Odd that its illegal at all.
The links you listed interestingly enough do not specify what games are legal and which are not, they merely say its "questionable" and certain titles are illegal.
You would be tempted to steal millions but find it a "sin" to steal a few bucks? Well, I am not one to judge but I always found it interesting that the "white collar" criminals who do steal millions usually spend less time in prison than a purse snatcher who was trying to feed his starving family. I guess you would agree that these lesser crimes are much more significant.....Myself, I feel that theft is theft. I subscribe to streaming video sites and buy my MP3's from Real Players store because I shun theft in every way, shape and form.
If laziness is defined as coming to a forum to seek help getting a game to run (when the software I am using links me to that forum) then I guess I am guilty of laziness. I must ask though, why list this Forum under the "help" section of the product if (as you state) "wanting us to provide you with a solution instead of spending the extra time required to get some other game up and running" is indicative of laziness? Isnt that what this forum is here for? Had I been trying to steal this $6 game, I could have easily (as I stated) asked about getting Arena to run as it is EXACTLY the same setup process. I did not, because I felt I was doing nothing wrong.
As far as trying to get the game running without any help, I was not going to play around in the DOS settings and possibly screw my computer up by changing something internal without fully understanding what I was doing- Hence my reason for coming here.
Anyhow, I am uninstalling the game and the software you have written to run it on. I can apparently buy the game for around $6.00 and have it run on XP with no help at all. 😀 That makes this software kinda obsolete as far as I am concerned (for the reasons I wanted to use it anyway) and will help others who come to this forum seeking help to just bypass your "help" all together and buy the games (for apparently cheaper than the link you gave me sells them for) that already run on XP, need no DOS understanding and are legal.
I understand your concern for copyright issues. I feel the same. Its the attitude and snobbishness I received here that was uncalled for as a simple explanation and understanding (that I am new to this and only learned of the dreaded abandonware the other day- Thinking it was legal) would have sufficed and by merely pointing me in the direction of viewtopic.p...380#137380 would have probably had me buying these games immediatly in DOS format.....Fortunately, the attitude I received has allowed me to find a much better site to buy all the older games for cheaper and already compatible with my machine. Thank you.

Thank you.

Pleased to serve you!

Thread locked for obvious reasons