VOGONS


First post, by Tetrium

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I branched this off of the Windows ME topic.
It started to get offtopic a bit but lots of interesting opinions were being shared amongst the members here 😉
It would be a shame to let all that interesting discussion go to waste, now wouldn't it 😉

So here it is:On older computers (say, roughly below 500Mhz and 128MB ram and a smallish harddrive) it is usually preferred (I didn't mention "better" on purpose 😉 )to use either 98SE or ME because of it's lower hardware 'footprint'.
However, Windows 2000 and Windows XP undoubtedly have a whole bunch of advantages of their own which would be a shame to put to waste simply because the hardware is deemed too old to contain an XP or 2k install.

Little history: I have worked with a program called "nLite" before, setting up XP on older systems which were given to unemployed people with psychical problems and have 'twiggled' with nLite quite a bit, both on real machines and in Virtual PC (often called VPC).
With nLite and an install cdrom of XP and/or 2k, you can basically tweak the install cdrom.
Things nLite can do include (but are not limited to):

*Slipstreaming complete Service Packs!
*Automate parts of the install process. Why would you want to install XP 20 times and enter your timezone 20 times manually 😉
*Standardize your own XP or 2k: You can set your preferences so when you install an nLited XP/2k, once you reach your desktop, it will have the exact settings that you would otherwise have to do manually (like My Computer on the desktop, open BMP's with Paint, classic Control Panel, Visual tweaks etc.
*Removing parts of the installation:
this is the most interesting option nLite gives to people who often work with older computers, like us here 😉
You can remove parts of 2k and XP to make it require less resources, effectively making it run better on old hardware.

Heres a quite good page describing how nLite works. This page is about XP:
http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:nlitexp

I once had a gareat link to a website describing in much detail the services XP and 2k run. Alas, I couldn't find it. The next link is more as an example:
http://www.theeldergeek.com/services_guide.htm

What I would find interesting is is others have used nLite for slimming for older PC's before (yes, I know you do! 😜. please don't remain anonymous 😜), what tweaks they used and any general hints and tricks.

Some people will have other requirements for how they use an nLited OS on an old computer then another person, so if giving your own tweaks, please also add a description as to what your tweaks are about (sorry for my not all too splendid English).

In particular if anyone has (successfully) used nLite with 2k on an older system.

One forum with LOTS of discussion about nLite is this one:
http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/89-nlite/

Alright..discuss! 😉

Reply 1 of 9, by Old Thrashbarg

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Basically what I've found with nLite is that it does well for integrating updates and programs, and can remove a few things without any negative effect. But you're wasting your time trying to use it to cram XP onto hardware that can't already handle it. You're just going to end up with a half-broken install of Windows that still runs slowly on old hardware.

Windows 2000 is also quite touchy about nLite. You can get away with integrating some update packs, and doing a few select unattended tweaks (not all of them work properly). Beyond that, though, you're looking at trouble. I remember older versions of nLite seemed to work better with it, but the latest version tends to break things pretty badly if you try to do very much with it.

I've attached a copy of the 'Last_session.ini' from the latest iteration of my XP disc. That is the best configuration I've found for stability and functionality, without tailoring it specifically to one PC. It's classic-themed, uses about 70-75MB RAM on a fresh install, works fine with current hardware but also runs decently on a PII with 384MB RAM.

A few things to note about it...
-For one, I have a corporate copy of XP, so I removed the OOBE stuff. Don't do that on an OEM or retail version.
-There's a couple things I keep for Japanese language support. If you only use one language and don't need IME, go ahead and nuke it along with 'Help and Support'.
-I keep IE not because I use it, but because a lot of seemingly unrelated things seem to require it. Same with WMP. On an older system where you're not running the latest software anyway, you can generally get away with removing them. Keep IE Core and WMP 6.4 though.
-I did not remove any 'Hardware Support' options. It's a common thing I notice people doing with nLite, but removing those things really doesn't gain you anything. Same sort of deal with Services... with the few exceptions that I know for sure I'll never use, it's just as effective to disable unnecessary services rather than remove 'em completely.

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Reply 2 of 9, by swaaye

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I'm with Old Thrashbarg.

I have an EeePC 900 and I have spent a lot of time making slim XPs for it but I've settled on a full install because I just couldn't tell the difference aside from some space savings. The Eee900 has a mere 4GB drive for the OS but it is enough as long as you keep your 9" computing away from the "home office" level 🤣

I do use nLite to make XP CDs with AHCI drivers preinstalled and for slipstreaming major service packs. But that's about it.

Reply 3 of 9, by Tetrium

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So theres no hope for 2k then?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 4 of 9, by Mau1wurf1977

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Slipstreaming Service Packs and SATA controller drivers is likely the most used feature of nLite.

However I found a USB Floppy drive is perfect for loading SATA drivers!

Reply 5 of 9, by Targaff

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Windows XP FLP.

Intel CC820 | PIII 667 | 2x128MB SDRAM | 3Dfx Voodoo 5 5500 @ Dell P790 | Creative SB PCI128 | Fujitsu MPC3064AT 6GB + QUANTUM FIREBALLlct10 10 GB | SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-608 | IOMEGA ZIP 100 | Realtek RTL8139C | Agere Win Modem

Reply 6 of 9, by Jorpho

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Targaff wrote:

Windows XP FLP.

Yep. I almost went with that the last time I was installing XP, but I started worrying that sooner or later I would find something fundamentally incompatible. I also thought about using someone else's pre-slimmed XP (there are many such builds out there already) but had the same concerns.

And so I looked at nLite. I wasn't too impressed, as AutoPatcher meets my needs quite nicely as far as mass-update installation and tweak-application is concerned. (Indeed, I used Autopatcher to download the patches I wanted to slipstream.) The only obvious things I can recall wanting to remove were modem definitions and maybe some obscure hardware support, but I didn't really want to tear out huge chunks of the system since, as with FLP, I was more concerned about maintaining compatibility than gaining some modest performance increase.

I guess slipstreaming drivers is fine if you don't trust the installer packages provided by the manufacturers.

Reply 7 of 9, by Targaff

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I ran FLP on a P2-500 laptop w/ (I think) 256MB PC133 for the last year and a half or so. I wasn't really pushing bounadries with it - K-Meleon, mIRC, Miranda, pokerstars was the usual - but in all that time the only problem I only came across two issues: I had to install task manager as it was missing by default, and I needed some MFC/VB libraries for Miranda plugin dependencies. I'd rate it as more stable and possibly faster than 2k on the same system, and certainly better than slipstreamed XP on the same system. The only real downside I had was that I was never able to convert the install CD to USB.

That said, if you have no driver issues and no pressing need for, say, NTFS, personally I'd stick go for 9x with KEX and RP.

Intel CC820 | PIII 667 | 2x128MB SDRAM | 3Dfx Voodoo 5 5500 @ Dell P790 | Creative SB PCI128 | Fujitsu MPC3064AT 6GB + QUANTUM FIREBALLlct10 10 GB | SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-608 | IOMEGA ZIP 100 | Realtek RTL8139C | Agere Win Modem

Reply 8 of 9, by Tetrium

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Too bad I don't have a copy of FLP

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 9 of 9, by Targaff

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While I balk somewhat at suggesting here that something should be obtained through less than legal channels, I'm tempted to suggest that you do so in this instance given it's something that is clearly extremely useful but which you would essentially never have been able to acquire by legal means on account of the bone-headedness of the manufacturer. There was no reason why this shouldn't and couldn't have been a useful and viable option, but MS was obviously determined to forge ahead with its own agenda in pushing ahead with the crock of shit that is Vista instead of trying to provide something that was actually beneficial to to people on a budget.

Intel CC820 | PIII 667 | 2x128MB SDRAM | 3Dfx Voodoo 5 5500 @ Dell P790 | Creative SB PCI128 | Fujitsu MPC3064AT 6GB + QUANTUM FIREBALLlct10 10 GB | SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-608 | IOMEGA ZIP 100 | Realtek RTL8139C | Agere Win Modem