(Deleted. No longer relevant anyway)

If I'm being honest with myself - I'm not always - I'm forced to admit that I enjoy buying and playing with hardware more than playing games. My projects are always aimed at getting the best hardware to cover a given period, and I have several beautiful PC's and consoles as a result. But once I finish a project and sit down to rock some games on it, my mind starts wandering and before I know it I have some other project on the go.

There is some guilt involved with this process for some reason, I need to let that go. There are worse addictions out there!

Like you, I collect vintage hardware not because I have any particular attachment to hardware, but because it is necessary to play the games I want to play.

DOSBox on Windows can go a long way, perhaps all the way, to replicating the experience of playing a DOS game without the hassle of setting up a vintage system. A few vintage components like a CRT, an IBM Model M Keyboard, an MT-32, CM-32L and an SC-55, all usable on a Windows system without great difficulty, can go a long way to making the experience complete. DOSBox, overall, is the best solution for DOS games from 1988-1996.

There are a few niches that DOSBox cannot do very well. DOSBox can emulate the various sound synthesizer chips PC hardware used, the TI SN 76496 of the IBM PCjr./Tandy 1000, the YM-3812 of the Adlib and YMF-262 of the Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 and others, the SAA-1099s of the Game Blaster, but the analog characteristics of the amplifiers of these chips will not be present. Similarly, a PC speaker and a speaker emulating the PC speaker are not the same. It can only go so far in emulating a composite color monitor or TV set, and even with a CRT connected, you are still going to get a double-scanned VGA look instead of a non-double scanned CGA/EGA look with games not using 256 color modes. If you want to use your real PC Booter or disk-based copy-protected DOS game, best hope a crack is available for you. Finally, if you have a gameport device that you want to use, you will probably need to find a USB substitute these days.

I think I'm a bit of both. I don't like to call myself a collector but the stuff keeps popping up in my way and I can't help it but give it a good home! I'm a bargain hunter, I love a good weekend of scouring flea markets for cheap old beat up computer/console hardware and restoring them to working condition, even better if it's a free curbside find, that's what makes me happy. Shelling out the big bucks for some pristine highly collectible piece wouldn't give me the same feeling, of course if it's there for cheap I won't pass it up! 😵

Back in my teenage years I made some money on the side by building/repairing PCs and so I amassed a considerable stash of obsolete/vintage hardware in the process. I loved tinkering with it but it just kept coming faster than I could handle and it started eating up my space. I then had a moment of "I should get rid of this obsolete crap and focus on the new stuff, and if I ever want something back it's so abundant I'll get it easily anyway", so I got rid of most of my stuff. Years later I came to realize that it wasn't abundant anymore and I became regretful of my past decision. Now I'm slowly getting back the things I'm interested in, and since it's becoming increasingly difficult I'm intending to preserve these the best I can, but trying to keep it balanced this time.

I love the convenience of emulation but I'm very nit-picky about small details like input/processing lag and frame rates so when I want the full, proper experience I go to the real hardware. I do my console gaming on a CRT television because to me there's no other way to get the same low resolution, razor sharp, lag-free 60fps progressive experience with any other display technology. For high resolution workstation use LCD is a clear winner with its lower space usage, perfect geometry and reduced power draw, but for DOS gaming I still keep a few VGA CRTs around, for those butter-smooth high refresh rates and the 'proper' look, even though a couple of months ago I got a 15" 4:3 LCD which is surprisingly good for DOS gaming.

I love vintage gear, especially when I can give it a second chance after being neglected but I don't consider myself a collector since I don't pursue goals like period accuracy or completeness, I just enjoy what I can get, and if I'm able to preserve it for the future, the better. For things like video displays I take a more pragmatic approach, but for that I have very high standards. 😁

Several reasons:

- playing older games is an obvious one. There's still that 6th generational CPU 3D accelerated gap missing from emulation (some special DOSBox builds are ALMOST there with Win98+3dfx Voodoo support). Cycle accurate 486 emulation's there, but for the high-end ones it's pretty slow so I still keep my am5x86 around.
- Playing older games properly in 16-bit color is another one. This is for those fussy games that don't believe there's a 24/32-bit color depth *cough*anything designed for mainstream Voodoo cards*cough*
- Redbook audio support.
- Testing. I develop a few things and I actually have some fun trying to get things to work with them. OpenArena being the thing. I'm pretty much rebooting that game's content for....wait for it........ PowerVR PCX2. Avoiding clamp artifacts, having alternate blend modes and keeping texture usage efficient does go a long way. Just the other day I made new health item models that were faster on Voodoo2 hardware, outperforming even Q3A's health models 😀

😳 What I didn't realize that this thread immediately attracts the attention of one of the earliest people I knew in Vogons when I joined this forum seven years ago. I mean, how are you doing, Great Hierophant? 😀

If only Malik, WolverineDK, Amigaz, and 5u3 all posted on this thread first page, then it would be like PC subforum reunion. That is, before all the hardware-related discussion (as opposed to PC emulation discussion) moved to Marvin. 🤣

Anyway....

Great Hierophant wrote:

Like you, I collect vintage hardware not because I have any particular attachment to hardware, but because it is necessary to play the games I want to play.

Same here. I base my vintage hardware purchase on the games I want to play. They just happens to be 3dfx games though, because it seems flight sims reach their best during the 3dfx era. Titles like Total Air War, European Air War, and EF2000 V2.0. Also, there are a lot of classic non flight-sims 3dfx titles like Grand Theft Auto and Tomb Raider. 😁

JayCeeBee64 wrote:

I have to admit that I'm pretty much like you Kreshna. I buy old computer hardware because I need to, not because I want to collect or be period-perfect.

Er, I actually try to be period-perfect. Problem is, the said period is the one where the hardware is quite hard to emulate, like Aureal 3D 2.0. IIRC, only a real Aureal 3D 2.0 hardware could do Aureal 3D 2.0.

For 386 or 486 games and the likes, I can go period-perfect without actual hardware. Using DOSBOX, that is. 😀

badmojo wrote:

If I'm being honest with myself - I'm not always - I'm forced to admit that I enjoy buying and playing with hardware more than playing games. My projects are always aimed at getting the best hardware to cover a given period

Same here, unless if the said hardware can be emulated with (relative) perfection. That's why I'm not interested in building a 386, for instance, since DOSBOX covers it just fine. 3dfx, on the other hand, is another story.

I also tend to base my purchase on operating system. For example, GeForce 6800 is the fastest video card available for Windows 98, so I buy it to build the fastest Win98 system possible. But you know, if GeForce GTX Titan or Radeon 7970 were backwards compatible with Windows 98 (and there are AGP version of those cards), and could do insane amount of FSAA on Windows 98 games with insane frame rate in insane resolution, then I wouldn't have the need to hunt for vintage GeForce 6800. 🤣

133MHz wrote:

I think I'm a bit of both. I don't like to call myself a collector but the stuff keeps popping up in my way and I can't help it but give it a good home! I'm a bargain hunter, I love a good weekend of scouring flea markets for cheap old beat up computer/console hardware and restoring them to working condition, even better if it's a free curbside find, that's what makes me happy.

Then we have a true vintage hardware lover here. 😁

leileilol wrote:

- Redbook audio support.

That's my concern too. How do we know whether a CD or DVD ROM drive can be hardware-connected to the sound card? So that we can hear a game's Redbook audio soundtrack in pure DOS?

I don't collect vintage hardware, even though once I was aggressively purchasing all the stuff I wanted as a schooling kid and only dreamt of. Sometimes I purchased different variations or more than one of the same kind of hardware. But that compulsive purchasing was due to my paranoia that such vintage hardware may break down and that I needed a backup or two. And I didn't want to lose what I've been dreaming to have for so long. For e.g., I once had 2 LAPC-I, 2 CM-500, 2 CM-64, 2 CM-32L and 3 MT-32s. I also had multiple boxed AWE32s.

That, and not including the numerous other motherboards, graphics cards and sound cards and other stuff that I've purchased...

As you might already know my main interests are with the sound department when it comes to vintage hardware, especially Roland vintage MIDI stuff.

Of course, I already sold all the extra units I had. And only last week I have sold and shipped the last "extra" MT-32 I had.

I'm now maintaining with my LAPC-I, CM-500, MT-32 and my SC-55 MKII. I find these to be more reliable when properly taken care of, and was content to keep single units after all.

I think if I'm a collector, I would have kept all of them, and keep on buying some more from eBay or Yahoo Japan.

After I successfully built an Intel 486DX2-66 system and another unlocked PII400 based system, I'm completely content.

I no longer fish at eBay for vintage stuff, since I already got what I want. But that doesn't stop me from browsing vintage stuff once in a while, since I like them. I still get "turned on" when I see a MPU-401 or 100% compatible ISA card for sale.

Like it or not, Dosbox has simply made my day, and now with latest processors, I can even play the 486 or even Pentium era Dos games well under Dosbox. I like Dosbox as much as I like my actual vintage systems. And with the ability to use Roland modules via the Dosbox's Intelligent MIDI "interface", the need for me to depend on a ISA-based solution is rectified.

Of course, 3dfx is also the main reason for maintaining my vintage hardware. Currently my Voodoo2 SLI in my PII400 fulfills my criteria.

Dos and Dos games are my main focus in building vintage systems, and also the ability to use Win95 in my faster classic machine. Win95, it's desktop and it's games are also nostalgic for me.

Period specific is not my aim, since period specific is usually lacking in optimums. Usually systems that came later are those that can fulfill the awesomeness of the previous era, and which can bring to life what the previous generation wanted to achieve.

So, I've built faster and more capable systems than what was intended. My 486 has 16 MB of RAM - much more than was the norm at it's age. My PII400 has 256MB RAM which also has DOS and Win95. 3D Dos games like Screamer, Screamer II and Destruction Derby should be seen playing in it.

I've also been experimenting with various "concoctions" like my PII which has 3 Creative sound cards plus a MPU-401 card. One dedicated to use the original OPL3 the other for AWE synthesis and so on.

Hmmmm...wrote too much.

The bottom line: I'm like most of you here - I bought them because I wanted them. And no, I don't consider myself as a collector. And I might buy again if I need a replacement. But I like them and like to discuss about them. 😁

I'm not a collector since I generally pickup hardware only if I plan to use it or can forsee a possible and plausible use for. That hasn't stopped me from *acquiring* a fair amount of gear, often by cannibalizing junked systems, but almost none of it is in might be called 'collectors' condition: boxed, with documentation, accessories etc., and I rarely pay above the average to low end for things. I have limited space to work with as well so I can't go crazy anyway.

I enjoy building rigs as much as gaming so often the choice of hardware and projects is driven by less 'practical' considerations than gaming, and more esoteric ideas about interesting builds. But for the most part what steers the bus is an interest in games of the early 3d era - 3dfx/Rendition - air combat and racing predominantly but also FPS and a sizable adventure collection - and in giving cpu-cycle limited games a proper home.

I like the look of the guts of a computer and pay special attention to the assembly and display of the systems. But I draw the line on period correctness at cases, and try to use a nice clear aluminum/Lian type for a final build when I can. Tracking these down used or inexpensive takes a lot of patience..

Games on the other hand I do collect in the conventional sense. While I don't have the 'mint-in-box' fetish, I have picked up hundreds of games I can never reasonably expect to play. I often cut the box top out and store the games a flat as possible to save space - a true collector non-no, but I'm pretty dedicated at completing game series, genres, and types of games that interested in..

I’d say I’m hardware but not period correct.
I started when I couldn’t get NFS4 working in XP but it has since become more about owning PCs I have a soft spot for which are 486’s, Slot 1/BX, Dos, Win98SE and XP. And like the idea of taking them as far as they can go.

My P3 is end of DOS machine (due to ISA) and doubles as Slot 1/BX, I’m slowly building a non HT P4, with a Gforce 6800 as the end of Win98. Also I can now afford things like AWE32, Voodoo2, etc. which I wanted for years. I like old tech in general but at the same time rather use a new case and flat panel monitor then something period correct.

I am looking forward to getting everything just right then getting down to playing games, but I’ve got my old xbox for that currently

I love the socket 3 era hardware and pre GUI software/computing.
I cant get excited about current hardware. Retro is much more fun.

I have just as much fun building the system as I do putting a few hours into serpent isle.

I love the hardware. It's not just about playing the games of the past, it's about being able to buy the hardware that you were never able to afford when it was new and mixing and matching parts to be able to play the broadest range of games on a single system. Some really rare parts are still expensive due to collector demand, but the vast majority of things can still be had reasonably if you're willing to wait.

For me it is a mix of preservation and nostalgia. I've built a pre 2K rig because I want to play it near exactly the way it was back then. It may be a pipe dream to keep the rig running forever. I've already lost two different motherboards due to age and bad caps.

Although I do want to play the games, the hardware itself is definitely a big factor. I'm probably starting to show signs of getting "old", with becoming increasingly nostalgic, but I still do think that a lot of the games from back in the late 80's to mid 90's were better than what's being released today. There's more and more focus on graphics and sound. More focus on online multiplayer features and cash shops. A game today, is a product based on what will make the company the most money, not necessarily what gives the player the best experience. It's like they walk a fine line between adding just enough enjoyment to keep people playing (or even better: addicted) and not spending too much time/money on development. I actually think things like Kickstarter just proves this. Gamers are willing to finance games themselves, just to allow the actual game designers free reign to make a GOOD game, instead of making a profitable game. But I digress. I like playing the old games, but I don't feel Dosbox is the best solution. Sure, it's the cheapest and most convenient solution, but there are many games that are fiddly to get to work, and with widescreen monitors and high resolution, the graphics scaling doesn't make the games look as good as they did on the proper stuff. If I was going to buy a CRT, a dedicated keyboard for dos gaming, external midi modules and so on, well, then I may as well have a dedicated system for dos games. I mean, I wouldn't wanna use a CRT as my day-to-day screen on a modern computer, not compared to my widescreen high-res LCD. This allows me the chance to have the computer I always wanted to have 18-20 years ago, but just couldn't afford. I can re-enjoy the fun and challenge of tweaking my dos setup for maximum amount of free base memory to run those difficult to run games, and play things not how an emulator thinks they should be, but as they REALLY should be. Back in the late 80's and early 90's, when I got into computers, they still had a sense of mystery to them. They were simply more FUN than today. So, although I wanna play the games, I most certainly have a great love for old hardware.

Rant over.

For me it is both. And I don't think this is because of you "getting old", I'm 20 and I feel the same way.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

.....For example, I won't buy a mint Video Commander card - even if it had high collection value

What kinda card is that ? 😕

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Also, if there is an LED monitor that can play typical DOS resolutions and refresh rates without problems (and the correct 4:3 aspect ratio - the one with horizontal black bars), I'd rather choose it instead of a "real thing" (vintage CRT, I mean), because I like LED colors (although, when compared to LCD, I still choose CRT as long as it's flat).

LED is still LCD. It's just different backlighting. I'd take an traditional IPS LCD over a LED TN every time. To be honest, I feel LED is very overrated. A good LED IPS will be stunning, sure, but 90% of consumer monitors, LED or not, are TN, which quite frankly, leave a lot to be desired.

Malik wrote:

I don't collect vintage hardware, even though once I was aggressively purchasing all the stuff I wanted as a schooling kid and only dreamt of. Sometimes I purchased different variations or more than one of the same kind of hardware. But that compulsive purchasing was due to my paranoia that such vintage hardware may break down and that I needed a backup or two.

Exactly the same here, bro.

Malik wrote:

And I didn't want to lose what I've been dreaming to have for so long. For e.g., I once had 2 LAPC-I, 2 CM-500, 2 CM-64, 2 CM-32L and 3 MT-32s. I also had multiple boxed AWE32s.

That, and not including the numerous other motherboards, graphics cards and sound cards and other stuff that I've purchased...

As you might already know my main interests are with the sound department when it comes to vintage hardware, especially Roland vintage MIDI stuff.

Well I actually prefer Yamaha sound. 😁

Anyway, what I mean by "period perfect" is not necessarily fidelity. I mean, if a game support MT-32, but it sounds better with GM, then GM it is. An example is Wing Commander. The game originally supports MT-32, but the one in Wing Commander: Kilrathi Saga supports GM, so play the GM version.

bestemor wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

.....For example, I won't buy a mint Video Commander card - even if it had high collection value

What kinda card is that ? 😕

A card with video in connector to connect your VCR into your PC. You can do various things like capturing still pictures from your VCR, watching movie in either Windows 3.1 or DOS, and IIRC capturing short clips (limited by hard drive size) from the movie played by your VCR, to be used later for various purposes. IIRC one of the bundled software is a presentation program that allows you to play movie clips as part of your presentation. I didn't have the card myself, but a highschool friend of mine (who was geekier than me at that time - and is still geekier than me) owned one. We watched City Hunter anime using that card, and captured some still frames.

IIRC Video Commander was made by Iris Technology.

I went through a phase of buying all sorts of old gear to try it out, because I'd read a review or because it had a cool name or whatever. Now I focus on what I need to play the games I have the way I want to play them, plus some extra bits for particular needs, or that I like due to sound or video quality or nice user interfaces, or flexibility, or weirdness.

I use dosbox where it works well, but for some games I get very petty and insist on having a retro box just in case. An athlon 700 or socket 7 is good enough for my purposes. I found 386s and 486s too time consuming and fiddly and the end results are often not as good as using dosbox anyway. I do like my big crt for older games, but I like my u2410 too 😜.

With limited space my approach is:
- dosbox where possible, and at most 1 "retro" box for dos games [fm synth, speed sensitivity, sb16]
- two other "retro" boxes for fast glide, dx6/dx7/dx8, a3d and eax
- everything else I have is more recent