The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

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The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby 386_junkie » 2017-3-03 @ 00:07

The Systempro Project

1) Beginnings (The modified System): - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=48266
2) Build (The Systempro): - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=49344
3) Bios: - viewtopic.php?f=46&t=50362
4) Bugs: -
5) Benching (386 class): - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=50361
6) Benching (386 class) round 2: - <----------You are here
7) Benching (4/586 class): -

______________________________________________________________

Time for an update!

Since the last time of benchmarking, I have been really busy at work and only very recently acquired new parts to play with: -

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=52794

… whilst the Systempro sat in hibernation.


With new introductions to the CPU board: -

Image
Image

I set about testing the TI486SXL-66. Though before testing, I removed the Weitek as right now it serves little use until I re-learn C and install Unix. Under Unix, I will be able to utilize both Weiteks and use simultaneously two 386’s, all at the same time…. can’t wait!

I digress…


Test Specs

Motherboard: Systempro EISA
CPU: TI486SXL2-66
DRAM board; 80Mb / 80ns
Adaptec 2740 EISA Controller
1.44Mb Floppy & 4Gb IDE HDD
Graphics; MiroCrystal 32S EISA with 4Mb VRAM

Image

The TI486SXL2-66 installed as a single CPU system benched as follows: -

Image

Below are screenshots of the SXL2-66 both with 8Kb cache enabled, with one clock doubled at 66MHz and the later clock doubled at 80MHz.

Image Image
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby kixs » 2017-3-03 @ 00:43

TI486SXL2-66 @ 80MHz :exclamation: Impressive :exclamation:

I wish my SXL2-50 (also 3V cpu) does 66, not really aiming at 80, although... ;) I hope to try it out soon...
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-03 @ 01:47

Interesting results. I think a lot of the advantage from this system comes from the EISA S3 928 graphics card.

I'd like to share a few of my results from a generic 386 motherboard with an ISA GD-5434 graphics card. I am using an IBM Blue Lightning 386 CPU, which can run at 1x, 2x, or 3x. The BL3 is like the SXL2, except it has 16 KB of cache.

BL3-100
DOOM = 23.7
3DBench = 38.4
Quake = 3.2 fps (the record for a 386 class system?)

BL3-75 using a 25 MHz FSB
DOOM = 17.8
3DBench = 30.3

At 75 MHz, it is generally better than your system with SXL2-66, but worse than the SXL2-80. Although to be fair, I'd really like to see both chips benchmarked on the same system. This is my plan for the ultimate 386 benchmark comparison. The BL3-100 is significantly faster in DOOM than the SXL2-80.

If you can't get your hands on a BL3 or SXL2-66, I have discovered another neat way to run a common SXL2-50 5V. It runs well at 55 MHz. Here are the results for comparison.

SXL2-55
DOOM = 15.5
3DBench = 27.7

This DOOM score is identical to your SXL2-66 w/EISA S3 928. 3DBench on your system pulls ahead at 33.3 fps, perhaps because more weight is given to graphics. I suspect something is holding back your system because an SXL2-66 should beat an SXL2-55. Have the BIOS timings been optimised?

Does your SXL2-80 run DOOM with sound enabled? And are you able to run Windows OK?

I notice an additional two IC's aside from the VRM on your SXL2-66 board. What are they for and what are their part numbers? One is a NOR gate, but what is the one with a sticker? Some kind of programmable controller?

Where did you get those new 386 PGA-132 sockets? I had trouble finding new ones, except for some over-priced bue coloured units with AUGAT printed on them.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby 386_junkie » 2017-3-03 @ 08:27

feipoa wrote:3DBench on your system pulls ahead at 33.3 fps, perhaps because more weight is given to graphics. I suspect something is holding back your system because an SXL2-66 should beat an SXL2-55. Have the BIOS timings been optimised?

Does your SXL2-80 run DOOM with sound enabled? And are you able to run Windows OK?

I notice an additional two IC's aside from the VRM on your SXL2-66 board. What are they for and what are their part numbers? One is a NOR gate, but what is the one with a sticker? Some kind of programmable controller?

Where did you get those new 386 PGA-132 sockets? I had trouble finding new ones, except for some over-priced bue coloured units with AUGAT printed on them.


Impressive results! I do like Blue lightning.


Did you not say SXL2 chipsets are dependent on DRAM/SRAM timings? On this system, DRAM is only 80ns, cache 25ns, wh5ch @40MHz is enough. I have intent to play this CPU in another (VLB) system.

Doom runs with the highest/hardest settings. Windows runs just fine.... it's surprising how fast it loads now!

Not sure what the IC's are. I know there is a set of DIP switches that can configure the CPU i.e. disable L1 cache etc. I will post more as and when I know.

The sockets I bought tubes of in two different listings from ebay. I think both listings were from Germany and was around 20 Euros for a tube of 10.

kixs wrote:TI486SXL2-66 @ 80MHz :exclamation: Impressive :exclamation:

I wish my SXL2-50 (also 3V cpu) does 66, not really aiming at 80, although... ;) I hope to try it out soon...


Kixs, I didn't realise it could go to 80MHz until feipoa suggested. Don't think I'll go any higher though... if I burnt out the chip, I'd feel pretty bad about it.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby kixs » 2017-3-03 @ 09:00

386_junkie wrote:
Kixs, I didn't realise it could go to 80MHz until feipoa suggested. Don't think I'll go any higher though... if I burnt out the chip, I'd feel pretty bad about it.


I've read before even SXL2-50MHz part can do 80MHz... But internal cache might get fried - I guess this is more relevant for 5V cpu.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-03 @ 09:00

Any thoughts on upgrading the RAM and cache speeds in the system? I'd really like to see your results using an ISA graphics card, say, GD5434 so that we can more directly compare our results. I do not have any 386 boards with a VLB slot. Would you be able to test your SXL2-66 in your VLB board with, both, ISA and VLB graphics?
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-03 @ 09:01

kixs wrote:
386_junkie wrote:
Kixs, I didn't realise it could go to 80MHz until feipoa suggested. Don't think I'll go any higher though... if I burnt out the chip, I'd feel pretty bad about it.


I've read before even SXL2-50MHz part can do 80MHz... But internal cache might get fried - I guess this is more relevant for 5V cpu.

Whatever you read must have been referring to the 3.6 V part because a 5V SXL2-50 cannot even do 60 MHz reliably.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby 386_junkie » 2017-3-03 @ 20:25

feipoa wrote:
kixs wrote:
386_junkie wrote:
Kixs, I didn't realise it could go to 80MHz until feipoa suggested. Don't think I'll go any higher though... if I burnt out the chip, I'd feel pretty bad about it.


I've read before even SXL2-50MHz part can do 80MHz... But internal cache might get fried - I guess this is more relevant for 5V cpu.

Whatever you read must have been referring to the 3.6 V part because a 5V SXL2-50 cannot even do 60 MHz reliably.


How many boards did you try? Which oscillators?

These are they guys i've been using... Mr 50, 66, and 80

Image

I'm sure by trying different boards you would find one where the SXL2-50 would be stable @ 66MHz.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-03 @ 20:56

I tried an one SXL2 and one SXL at 66 MHz and they hung up right after enabling 2x. I believe these chips at 5 V were pretty much at their design limits. Another member here who has been dealing with 386 upgrades a lot longer than I have also confirmed the inability to get an SXL2 going at 66 MHz. If I was in Vegas at a betting table I would put all my money on there not being a stable SXL2 5V at 66 MHz. It would be really cool if I had to eat my words later on, so keep testing!

The oscillators I tried were 50 MHz, 55.25 Mhz, 60.0 MHz, and 66.6 MHz. If every last fractional MHz counts, and you are wanting to experiment with this, try an oscillator between 55.25 and 60 MHz.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-03 @ 21:15

For $21 and 0.75 MHz more, you can try this oscillator http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCXO-56MHz-56-0 ... SwjVVVzKhg

Although, I do remember there being a 56.X oscillator in this package. I went with 55 Mhz because it was midway between 50 and 60 MHz. It is still possible that there is an SXL2 5V which will run at 60 MHz, but that seems like a risky en devour for sustained uptime.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby 386_junkie » 2017-3-04 @ 06:55

feipoa wrote:For $21 and 0.75 MHz more, you can try this oscillator http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCXO-56MHz-56-0 ... SwjVVVzKhg

Although, I do remember there being a 56.X oscillator in this package. I went with 55 Mhz because it was midway between 50 and 60 MHz. It is still possible that there is an SXL2 5V which will run at 60 MHz, but that seems like a risky en devour for sustained uptime.


If I try and push the SXL2-50 beyond it's limits then i'm sure these alternate oscillators will come in handy. I didn't realise how many there were.

The only oscillators I own are the more inline 286, 386, and 486 FSB's, though I do have a couple of 100 MHz floating around which give a 50 MHz FSB.

btw... whats on the other side of your Buffalo? Is there a voltage regulator to drop the 5V from the PGA-132 socket to the 3.8V required by BL?
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-04 @ 10:03

Get the 56 MHz oscillator! Actually, send the seller an email asking why his is asking for so much for ONE crystal oscillator. Most other DIP oscillators of this size go for $1-2 each. I sent the seller an email without receive a reply yet. EDIT: So expensive because they are ultra precise, temperature compensated, oscillators.

The VRM on the Buffalo is visible in the image I shared above, just that it is standing vertically and difficult to view. Look at the far right centre.

I definitely have the 100 MHz oscillator as well. I'm amongst a monster sized motherboard comparison of these high-end 386 upgrade CPUs, which spans 5 motherboard chipsets. There isn't one best CPU for all the boards, and there is not one best motherboard for all the CPUs. It is a very frustrating en devour with a disgusting quantity of data points collected.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby greasemonkey90s » 2017-4-02 @ 23:48

So where does the 486slc2 fit or its the same.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-4-03 @ 00:58

Aren't SLC's 16-bit and DLC/SXL 32-bit for the data bus?
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby greasemonkey90s » 2017-4-03 @ 02:14

feipoa wrote:Aren't SLC's 16-bit and DLC/SXL 32-bit for the data bus?



Agreed yea my 486slc2-66 is on a alaris board with a opti chipset. Vlb slots are limp to 16bit data and 24bit addressing. Memory interleaving is a plus to those downsides. Should be 10% slower then dx-2 66.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby feipoa » 2017-4-03 @ 03:40

greasemonkey90s wrote:
feipoa wrote:Aren't SLC's 16-bit and DLC/SXL 32-bit for the data bus?



Agreed yea my 486slc2-66 is on a alaris board with a opti chipset. Vlb slots are limp to 16bit data and 24bit addressing. Memory interleaving is a plus to those downsides. Should be 10% slower then dx-2 66.

Do you have any benchmark evidence?
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby greasemonkey90s » 2017-4-03 @ 05:57

feipoa wrote:
greasemonkey90s wrote:
feipoa wrote:Aren't SLC's 16-bit and DLC/SXL 32-bit for the data bus?



Agreed yea my 486slc2-66 is on a alaris board with a opti chipset. Vlb slots are limp to 16bit data and 24bit addressing. Memory interleaving is a plus to those downsides. Should be 10% slower then dx-2 66.

Do you have any benchmark evidence?



I plan to contribute once i change out the soon to be leaking barrel battery. Currently the battery is dead and everytime i turn off the pc i have to re setup the bios but i will trust me.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby dirkmirk » 2017-4-03 @ 23:36

Do you have other EISA cards I suspect the 928 is not up their with the best as its more a windows card?
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby Anonymous Coward » 2017-4-04 @ 01:20

Supposedly, the 928 was one of the first chips that wasn't horrendously slow in dos when paired with vram.
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Re: The Systempro; Benchmarking (TI486SXL2-66)

Postby 386_junkie » 2017-4-13 @ 14:14

dirkmirk wrote:Do you have other EISA cards I suspect the 928 is not up their with the best as its more a windows card?


On the contrary... S3's 928 turns out to be one of the fastest! I've tested just about every EISA graphics card and the 928 came out overall (in both Dos / Win) on top: -

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=50370


Anonymous Coward wrote:Supposedly, the 928 was one of the first chips that wasn't horrendously slow in dos when paired with vram.


Agreed.

The above link shows my results that confirm this... I was really surprised that the ELSA card kicked ass in both Dos and Windows. None of the others apart from ATI's (Mach 32) and Matrox (S3 805) came close.
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