Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.49, and Audigy support SOON!

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-5-26 @ 10:35

Hi,
First and foremost thank you for this very useful tool. I would like to request one extra feature: Would you add the ability to enable/disable MIC input? MIC input does not have to be enabled by default with the boot parameter, but an option would be handy.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-5-26 @ 19:56

Thanks!
But you can use TAD input if you need mono channel. Or you need exactly built-in high voltage microphone preamplifier? I thought that nobody wants to use MIC in pure DOS. Now work with Live is completed (except I2S testing) and developer is working for Audigy1 support. But I'll ask him about it, OK.
By the way if it is not a secret tell please why do you want to get MIC working in pure DOS?

So, there are some advantages and lacks.

+ no coils of wires (only short between cards), no separate device, no additional power
+ analog+digital inputs, analog+digital outputs in one built-in PCI device
+ ability to use two, even three stereo outputs with independent channels routes including partial, miscellaneous routes (see input/output table)
+ cheapest of a cheap, very common and easy to find, software is free

- reference frequency 48 kHz
- inability to set channels levels anytime (you must quit the game, run mixer, set level(s) then run a game again)

Waiting for Audigy support... WIP
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-5-26 @ 21:25

PARUS wrote:Thanks!
But you can use TAD input if you need mono channel. Or you need exactly built-in high voltage microphone preamplifier? I thought that nobody wants to use MIC in pure DOS...
By the way if it is not a secret tell please why do you want to get MIC working in pure DOS?

Of course it's not a secret, and yes I need a high impedance/pre-amplified input. It's for not too serious jamming with a guitar that is already connected directly to mic input with a 1/4 to 1/8 cable.
Yes, I know it's not ideal but plaese, do not send nice pictures about fancy boxes, I know about them :) . It's already connected for more than a decade and used in Windows without problems. But using it in DOS would be a nice addition (SB16 emulation does not activate MIC input, and there's no option for it in the mixer either).
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby noop » 2018-5-27 @ 18:52

Falcosoft wrote:Of course it's not a secret, and yes I need a high impedance/pre-amplified input.

But, AFAIK, mic input in consumer cards is just for electret mics, with low-voltage phantom power and low impedance, hardly suitable for guitar.

Oh, I see, you already have a preamp and want to use it in DOS, but for some reason its signal is insufficient for line input?
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby the Goat » 2018-5-29 @ 16:25

BloodyCactus wrote:this seems like a problem looking for a solution. better solution exists, external mixer and its more functional. multiple machines, multiple external midi, etc. (I have the rolls, its awesome)

Image

Image

I second the external mixer idea. I have that Eurorack rx1602 and it works great with multiple PC's and multiple external MIDI devices.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-5-29 @ 17:32

No, it's not a second idea! It's already a thousandth external mixer idea in the world. You may don't repeat a same things, it's absurdly. I already said that I'm not stupid and can myself show you decades of external mixers.

And my idea about internal mixer is really FIRST idea. I explained all advantages and all clever men understood.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby noop » 2018-5-29 @ 19:24

PARUS wrote:I explained all advantages and all clever men understood.

So, wanting an ability to change volume without quitting the game is "not clever". Ok.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-5-29 @ 19:42

If you read my message closely you find changing volume not in advantages but in lacks. Please do not distort my words with your nice "OK" resume. Thank you!
I tell over again: I'm not oppose my mixer to external mixers. And I ask you all again, don't oppose, it's very foolishly.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby Schyz » 2018-6-02 @ 14:28

Hi Parus,

I think I'm interested in your project, just a few questions before I buy a card for this.

You say "EMU10K", does it means it will work with all the Creative range from SB Live to Audigy ZS Platinum Pro? Does the mixer support the I/O in the 5.25 front panel of an SB Live or the external module of the Platinum Pro?

Any mixing restriction you have encountered? For example, can I mix line-in from the 3.5mm jack in the back of the card with the internal SPDIF-in, internal CD-in and the 6.35 mm Line-in 2 from the external module/front panel?

Does this mixer require to load the DOS drivers that emulate an ISA Sound Blaster? Does it require EMM386? Compatibility issues with 3rd party memory managers like Jemmex or Qemm386?

How much conventional RAM (<640KB) does it consume?

How is the compatibility, have you found any issues with any DOS game?

Just in case, here is what I would like to connect to this "mixer card" if I had an SB Live with front panel:

AWE32
- OPL3+EMU8k -> internal SPDIF-in
- Wave-out -> Line-in in the back with a male to male 3.5 mm stereo cable
(this is following your recommendation for cleaner AWE32 audio)

Keropi's MPU 401 clone
- Internal wavetable -> internal Aux-in with typical CD-Audio cable (the card has an internal line-out header for the midi daughterboard)
- External CM-500 -> secondary external Line-in in external module / front panel

Optical Drive
- Internal CD-In with typical CD-Audio cable

Then for the output, take the TOSlink-out from the front panel to a dedicated DAC+AMP. This part is not vital, if I have to take the stereo-out from the back of the card I'm fine with it.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-6-03 @ 08:52

Schyz wrote:You say "EMU10K", does it means it will work with all the Creative range from SB Live to Audigy ZS Platinum Pro?

It supports all SB Lives yet. Audigy1 support should be soon. Read this:
PARUS wrote:I want to make it as a large-scale software and all EMU10k cards support from CT4620 to SB0350. But it requires additional donate. Now work is almost done for Live cards and after this the rework will start for Audigy1 support. In order to add support for Audigy2 we need to make some things anew because Audigy2 has one more chip besides EMU10k and Creative/Sigmatel AC97 codec. It is P16V. That is requires another big job for Audigy2 proper support. This chip is designed for DVD Audio sound decoding with 96 kHz and has a close unseverable connection in Audigy2 architecture. I was hoping for Audigy2 basic reference frequency 96 kHz. Very hoping :) But I was talking to developer of this software and he told me the Audigy2 has a same EMU10k DSP like Audigy1. It means that we will not get real basic 96 kHz. All operations on input signals including their mixing go on at only 48 kHz and then the P16V makes simple doubling refresh rate output if you choose "96kHz". Therefore Audigy2 gives us nothing compared with Audigy1 (only honest DVD Audio 96 kHz and 6.1/7.1). So I have thought about it and decided that at the moment we are working for CT4620 --- SB0230 models. And about Audigy2 later we'll see...

I'll be honest and say you that I don't want to donate Audigy2 support. But there are at least two men now who wants. If you wish please join after work with Live+Audigy1 will finish.

Schyz wrote:Does the mixer support the I/O in the 5.25 front panel of an SB Live or the external module of the Platinum Pro?

I'm looking now for 5'25 Live and Audigy front panels to test them.

Schyz wrote:Any mixing restriction you have encountered? For example, can I mix line-in from the 3.5mm jack in the back of the card with the internal SPDIF-in, internal CD-in and the 6.35 mm Line-in 2 from the external module/front panel?

Yes! Be sure. I haven't front panel yet and should buy it for confidence it is working. And about total mixing don't doubt please, it will work!

Schyz wrote:Does this mixer require to load the DOS drivers that emulate an ISA Sound Blaster? Does it require EMM386? Compatibility issues with 3rd party memory managers like Jemmex or Qemm386?

How much conventional RAM (<640KB) does it consume?

How is the compatibility, have you found any issues with any DOS game?

No, it doesn't require Creative DOS driver, it doesn't require EMM386, it should work with all memory managers. If you will want yourself to load EMM386 or EMM386 with Creative DOS driver the EKM mixer will work properly also!

It doesn't consume conventional memory, it is not TSR.

I didn't find any issues with DOS games.

Schyz wrote:Just in case, here is what I would like to connect to this "mixer card" if I had an SB Live with front panel:

AWE32
- OPL3+EMU8k -> internal SPDIF-in
- Wave-out -> Line-in in the back with a male to male 3.5 mm stereo cable
(this is following your recommendation for cleaner AWE32 audio)

Keropi's MPU 401 clone
- Internal wavetable -> internal Aux-in with typical CD-Audio cable (the card has an internal line-out header for the midi daughterboard)
- External CM-500 -> secondary external Line-in in external module / front panel

Optical Drive
- Internal CD-In with typical CD-Audio cable

It's all possible. Front panel only does require tests now. But you can connect CM-500 to CD-In and connect CDROM to CD SPDIF In.

Schyz wrote:Then for the output, take the TOSlink-out from the front panel to a dedicated DAC+AMP. This part is not vital, if I have to take the stereo-out from the back of the card I'm fine with it.

It's possible to take signal from any digital/analog output channel. Front panel only does require tests now. :)
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-6-06 @ 08:38

There are SPDIF0, SPDIF1, SPDIF2 outputs on 40-pin header and they all work, I checked.
There are SPDIF1, SPDIF2 inputs on 40-pin header. On Live SPDIF1 input works, SPDIF2 input doesn't work (I have looked for SPDIF2 contact on PCB and it seems empty, not used). On Audigy1 they work both.
There are I2S0, I2S1, I2S2 inputs on 40-pin header (plus Master Clock and L/R Clock?). They all are involved.

I think that connectors on 5'25 Extensions are using these lines. Probably AUX IN2 and LINE IN2/MIC IN2 channels are using I2S lines through built-in converters, probably SPDIF IN/OUT are direct to 40-pin header. When I'll got front panel I'll check it all.
By the way analog lines with their own converters on front panels should have much better quality than AC97 codec on main PCB.

Live/Audigy1 have a same pinouts. 40-pin header on Audigy2 cards has another pinouts than Live/Audigy1. I didn't explore it yet.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-6-22 @ 02:15

Schyz wrote:Does the mixer support the I/O in the 5.25 front panel of an SB Live or the external module of the Platinum Pro?

I've checked it finally with 5'25 front panel. Yes, it does! COAX and TOSLINK, AUX2 and LINE2, they all are working! Two more analog inputs and without AC97!

Waiting for Audigy support...
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby firage » 2018-6-24 @ 13:18

Kudos, man. A worthy project to expand the usefulness of our Creative cards. Can't wait to put my first gen Audigy into some use.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-7-13 @ 18:22

Thank you.
I have tested v1.04 for Audigy. It's beta, only FRONT OUT and SPDIF0 are working. There are some important bugs yet. I will not upload betas. Only versions without bugs or with minimum inessential bugs will be uploaded for people. Wait for Audigy mixer, it will be soon. It works with 5'25 Extension too like v0.44 for Live's.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds, v0.44

Postby PARUS » 2018-7-14 @ 22:38

Falcosoft, a new version for Live cards is ready. It has MIC channel support now! Unfortunately it got some bugs and I don't upload it yet. But in a few days I will do it. I think it will be final version for Live. Then we will work for Audigy only.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.48, and Audigy support SOON!

Postby PARUS » 2018-7-23 @ 09:39

A new version 0.48 is ready for download. See first post.
Now executable file is named ek1m. Other one for Audigy will be named ek2m. If the work will be continued for Audigy2 this program probably will be named ek3m. /Like the generations EMU10k1, EMU10k2, EMU10k3/

Additions:
- MIC IN is available now

Fixed bugs:
- incorrect level settings on REAR and SPDIF2 outputs are correct now
- incorrect panorama on AC97 inputs is correct now

Still present bugs:
- AC97 levels settings are working only in MIX mode, and in single modes there is unregulated volume 50
- "acenter" (analog Center+LFE pair) doesn't work

Despite the remaining two errors 0.48 version contains very important corrections and it's tuned well overall. Therefore I've uploaded it.

I saw that 0.44 version was downloaded 50 times. Please leave your comments and remarks here if you want to vary something. And now you can abandon 0.44 and use 0.48.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.48, and Audigy support SOON!

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-7-23 @ 11:52

Hi,
It seems I'm the first downloader of the new 0.48 version :)
I have tried and everything (I tried only Mic input/Line-in/CD digital) works perfectly. Thank you.
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Re: Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.49, and Audigy support SOON!

Postby PARUS » 2018-8-20 @ 12:29

The v0.49 is released. See first post.

Additions:
- BEEP IN is available now by Rabanik's request

Fixed bugs:
- "acenter" (analog Center+LFE pair) works now
PARUS wrote:- AC97 levels settings are working only in MIX mode, and in single modes there is unregulated volume 50

I didn't know it is not EKM bug. It is AC'97 specifications bug. In single channel (any channel) mode there is unregulated "hard" channel half-volume.

Known bug:
- all sounds at "afront" channel are present at "acenter" (CEN/SUB) channel too even if "acenter" level is 0.

You can abandon 0.48 and use 0.49. Enjoy.
Audigy support is very soon!
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