VOGONS


First post, by AlephZaku

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(Not sure if this should go in the Video forum -- I suspect this is some kind of software issue and not a hardware issue per se but let me know if I should move this!)

I'm getting some kinda-similar graphical artifacts in a few games I'm trying to run:

- Chronicles of Jaruu Tenk has this issue with both software rendering (see attached screenshot) and hardware rendering. The artifacts I'm seeing in hardware rendering mode are a little different looking -- polygons flicker between being textured and untextured, stray polygons/lines popping up, and eventually the screen goes black.

- The Windows version of Azrael's Tear is doing something similar, although I couldn't get a screenshot of it -- stray polygons, polygons intermittently not rendering, and irregular static-y black lines/barcode looking things popping up. No idea if this uses software or hardware rendering, but it comes bundled with a DirectX 3 installer.

Not sure if it's relevant but Quake 3, Unreal, Sub Culture, and Thief 2 all ran without getting artifacts.

I've tried both DirectX 8.1 and 7.0a and I'm getting the same issue in both cases.

System:
Windows 98
P3 700mhz
GeForce 2MX (not currently overclocked; tried this with the 45.23, 8.05, and 7.76 drivers and had the same issue in all cases).
512MB RAM
A pair of YMF sound cards (YMF744 I think and something Audician 32-equivalent)

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Reply 1 of 10, by pentiumspeed

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Replace the Geforce2 MX for 128 bit memory MX400 or go Geforce2 GTS. Your video card is failing due to lack of fan and GPU is dying.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 2 of 10, by Jo22

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AlephZaku wrote on 2020-10-12, 20:20:

- Chronicles of Jaruu Tenk has this issue with both software rendering (see attached screenshot) and hardware rendering. The artifacts I'm seeing in hardware rendering mode are a little different looking -- polygons flicker between being textured and untextured, stray polygons/lines popping up, and eventually the screen goes black.

Very interesting game - thanks for posting!
Otherwise, others and me likely never would have ever heard of it, which would be a shame really. It seems very underrated, IMHO.

As for the glitches.. Yes, seems to be related to texture memory or something along these lines.
If I remember correctly, my father had a Pentium III 733MHz with a Geforce 4MX and it could even run Celestia..

As it turned out when I tinkered with Power Macs, the Geforce 4MX was a cheap version of the Geforce 2.
Hence, it was very limited as far as OS X 10.4 Tiger goes.
Anyway, it could still support normal 2D and 3D acceleration. The Geforce 3 TI as Mac Edition was sought after, I think.

Unfortunately, it was necessarily to re-flash the firmware for Mac. This was comparably easy though. At least in comparison to the Geforce FX 5200, which required more firmware hacking than simply adjusting CPU and memory timings to match a Geforce 2-4's physical specs.

Anyway, that's all that comes to mind right now. I hope it wasn't too off-topic.
The FX might be worth a try, perhaps. It's tge last line with a separate 2D unit and supports newer OpenGL and DirectX 9.AGP compatibility might be a thing, though.
The GF 2 or 4M supported AGP 2x still, I think.

Anyway, good luck!
And thanks for posting! 🙂
Jo22

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 10, by AlephZaku

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-17, 09:22:
Very interesting game - thanks for posting! Otherwise, others and me likely never would have ever heard of it, which would be a […]
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AlephZaku wrote on 2020-10-12, 20:20:

- Chronicles of Jaruu Tenk has this issue with both software rendering (see attached screenshot) and hardware rendering. The artifacts I'm seeing in hardware rendering mode are a little different looking -- polygons flicker between being textured and untextured, stray polygons/lines popping up, and eventually the screen goes black.

Very interesting game - thanks for posting!
Otherwise, others and me likely never would have ever heard of it, which would be a shame really. It seems very underrated, IMHO.

As for the glitches.. Yes, seems to be related to texture memory or something along these lines.
If I remember correctly, my father had a Pentium III 733MHz with a Geforce 4MX and it could even run Celestia..

As it turned out when I tinkered with Power Macs, the Geforce 4MX was a cheap version of the Geforce 2.
Hence, it was very limited as far as OS X 10.4 Tiger goes.
Anyway, it could still support normal 2D and 3D acceleration. The Geforce 3 TI as Mac Edition was sought after, I think.

Unfortunately, it was necessarily to re-flash the firmware for Mac. This was comparably easy though. At least in comparison to the Geforce FX 5200, which required more firmware hacking than simply adjusting CPU and memory timings to match a Geforce 2-4's physical specs.

Anyway, that's all that comes to mind right now. I hope it wasn't too off-topic.
The FX might be worth a try, perhaps. It's tge last line with a separate 2D unit and supports newer OpenGL and DirectX 9.AGP compatibility might be a thing, though.
The GF 2 or 4M supported AGP 2x still, I think.

Anyway, good luck!
And thanks for posting! 🙂
Jo22

I should probably point out that a GeForce 2 is probably overkill for both of the games I mentioned -- Jaruu Tenk definitely worked finr on the... ATI Rage 128? I had -- so I don't think upgrading to an FX would really help here.

Also I just swapped out the MX for a GeForce 2 GTS and I'm still seeing the artifacting, so it definitely wasn't an issue with that card in particular.

Reply 4 of 10, by Jo22

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Good morning, just got a copy of Jaruu.
On my Compaq Presario 1400 (laptop) with Trident Cyberblade graphics (DDI v7), things work fine under Windows XP with DirectX 9.0c.
Well, at least until I do enable Mip Mapping.
Then things go wild. Jaruu rotates, the option's screen (ESC) screen flickers etc.
I'll do some more tests within a few days, maybe.

Edit: Pictures added.

Edit: I did forget to mention - the game became freeware and I'm using v2.
Commercial games released as freeware

Edit: Screensaver mode also didn't work on that laptop/XP. The mouse coursor merely gets a little, pulsing hour glass.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 5 of 10, by Jo22

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Hi! Did another test with a Compaq Armada laptop running Win 98SE with DirectX 9c.
The accelerater chip is too simple, so I had to fall back to Software Rendering.
This however, works like a charm. All features can be enabled and screensaver mode works, as well! 😀

However, due to the 400x300 resolution that I selected for performance reasons, it's not entirely clear if all features are actually fully used in software mode.

I guess, I should have chosen something like DirectX 6.x, which eons agao was being advertised for using MMX, bump mapping etc..

Not sure if Jaruu works with that, though. I use these laptops for electronics projects mainly, rather than gaming/multimedia. 😅

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 10, by Jo22

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Quick update.

I tested the game on an HP Thin Client.
It runs Win98SE and has a Transmeta CPU and an ATI Rage XL on-board.
DirectX is v8. 1.

Interestingly, the effects seem to work just fine, but Jaruu rotates..
Maybe DirectX 9 automagically fixes this somehow?

I tested in 400x300 and 640x480 pels resolution.

PS: Also found a demo of Azrael's Tears.
I'll look into this one too in a few days maybe.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 7 of 10, by AlephZaku

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So I ended up reinstalling Windows, and that fixed the problem in the games I mentioned. Also, updating my chipset drivers seemed to have fixed some other issues I was seeing.

So yeah, no idea what happened. I'm suspecting that the unofficial service pack I had installed maaay have broken something with the AGP drivers, although I also noticed some strangeness related to RivaTuner so maybe that broke something, somehow.

Reply 8 of 10, by cyclone3d

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AlephZaku wrote on 2020-10-28, 15:26:

So I ended up reinstalling Windows, and that fixed the problem in the games I mentioned. Also, updating my chipset drivers seemed to have fixed some other issues I was seeing.

So yeah, no idea what happened. I'm suspecting that the unofficial service pack I had installed maaay have broken something with the AGP drivers, although I also noticed some strangeness related to RivaTuner so maybe that broke something, somehow.

Glad to hear you got it working.

The newer Unofficial Service Pack for Win98SE has never done anything except cause problems for me.

The older version which only installed the official MS updates and possibly NUSB was fine.

Now I just install the official MS updates using the 2004 MS update CD. The ISO for it is available on vogonsdrivers.com

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 9 of 10, by Jo22

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AlephZaku wrote on 2020-10-28, 15:26:

So I ended up reinstalling Windows, and that fixed the problem in the games I mentioned. Also, updating my chipset drivers seemed to have fixed some other issues I was seeing.

So yeah, no idea what happened. I'm suspecting that the unofficial service pack I had installed maaay have broken something with the AGP drivers, although I also noticed some strangeness related to RivaTuner so maybe that broke something, somehow.

i'm also glad that things work fine now! ^^ - Please don't worry also.
Windows 9x as a platform is known for being a bit quirky. That's why we love it, I guess.

Btw, I found a workaround on my ThinClient! Maybe it's useful for troubleshooting. 😀
I upgraded the ATI Rage driver to the version found at vintage3.org and installed the very last version of DirectX that can run on 98SE; DirectX 9 November 2006 release (Me has Dez. 2008 ver. also).
Unfortunately, this alone didn't work. Both being puzzled and remembering that Jaruu was developed in the DirectX 6 time frame, I tried out different settings one after another.
Long story short - Disabling Tripple-Buffering, 640x480 pixel resolution and using the dedicated Jaruu shortcut (not "play" in config program) made it run without Jaruu spinning around.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 10 of 10, by AlephZaku

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-02, 10:09:

Long story short - Disabling Tripple-Buffering, 640x480 pixel resolution and using the dedicated Jaruu shortcut (not "play" in config program) made it run without Jaruu spinning around.

Separate issue from what I was noticing on my 98 system, but I was seeing the model spinning on my W10 box, so good catch on this! Thanks!