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First post, by Xreel

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Hi this is my first post here, i wanted to ask how to figure out the problem I'm having with a 486 PC i recently got,it's one of the oldest computer that i have and i never played around with 486 computers to understand the full basics, so sorry if i ask about something simple. The problem is the board started to detect the Intel 486 dx as a cx486slc after changing the barrel battery and i have no idea why that is, i checked around the bios since it got reset cause of that but there's so many settings that i don't understand, i can't tell if something is not correctly setup or if it's a problem with the board itself like jumpers or something more problematic, i did try changing some jumpers settings using a small manual that is very similar but not identical board but that changed nothing. Also the cpu seem to run REALLY HOT like it burn to the touch not sure if that's normal so i added a small heat sink with a fan but for a 486 i assume it would not be necessary

The Motherboard model from what looks like is P60-4077A
the cpu is a legit one if it's not it's a very perfect replica, and it had previously a sticker written 1992 on it the manufacture date of the pc i assume.

Here's a picture of the board if that can help.

Reply 1 of 20, by BitWrangler

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DXes I've had, 25s run usually luke warm, 33s run quite warm (like if it was coffee I could drink it now) 40s run "ow this is painful warm, but not actually searing flesh" and DX50s get to that with 30 seconds of turning on and need a heatsink before you make them do any work. Vintage cases do not have a lot of ventilation though and you might be happier with the sink on it, especially in warmer weather.

Typically, there's a 1x4 block that selects SX or DX, a 2x6 block for speed selection, then a weird shaped mish mash block that may include voltage settings, overdrive selection, AMD/Cyrix/Intel, but they may be neatly grouped or scattered all over the place. I don't see the regulator so you maybe haven't got voltage to worry about, all 5V. Ah you probably don't even have clock speed selection, you've got a fixed crystal. It's looking a lot like this one... http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/5438

For that I'm reading J18 1-2 J19 1-2 and J20 1-2 3-4 would be right for an intel DX if either of the first two are on 2-3 that might be what makes it think it's cyrix

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 2 of 20, by Xreel

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Unfortunately changing these dip switches doesn't do anything i can even remove them and the computer is still going to boot normally and show cyrix cpu cx486slc and the "manual" doesn't mention cx486SLC at all it does mention another cyrix but still. I don't understand, the pc used to boot fast and all and now it's just super slow when it boot up, i can't remember correctly though if it did say cyrix before but i assume not.
oh and the archived picture of the board is actually my picture somehow the picture i send on a discord server end up being archived but that's good.

Last edited by Xreel on 2021-05-19, 03:12. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 4 of 20, by Xreel

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Turbo jumper?

Reply 5 of 20, by Xreel

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i don't know about it since the manual doesn't mention about it in fact it barely mention anything and apparently even though the board are similar the dip switches have different functionalities cause every dip switches that i moved around so far has done absolutely nothing, right now i removed the board to see if there's any short somehow.

Reply 6 of 20, by cyclone3d

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There should be a jumper to enable/disable turbo. Usually hooks to a switch on the case.

If it is not enabled, you either have the system running at a super low speed or it has disabled the L1 and probably L2 caches.

What does the jumper information next to the CPU socket say?

Do you have the jumpers back to how they were originally?

What about BIOS settings? Some have a Boot Speed that can be set to Low/High.

Also, I wouldn't go by jumper settings from a "similar" board. Even different revisions of the same model can have very different jumper settings.

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Reply 7 of 20, by Xreel

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I mean there's the turbo connector that's connected to the turbo button on the case it does work and yes and it's set to full speed, as for the bios I'm not sure and if you want to see the board there's the picture of my board at the top of this post, and this link is the information about the board i think http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/5438

Reply 9 of 20, by Xreel

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Some jumpers are missing if you look closely enough and so far the jumpers settings in the manual that tells what cpu it is did not do anything i could even remove these jumpers completly and the board would still power on like it does and say its cx486slc is the board fried? Also dos gets an error while trying to format the hdd but not sure if that's related to the problem or not.

Reply 10 of 20, by evasive

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Xreel wrote on 2021-05-19, 02:36:

oh and the archived picture of the board is actually my picture somehow the picture i send on a discord server end up being archived but that's good.

I will add credits for it, in the mean time, we could use a non-angled one with the complete board visible...

As for the issue at hand, it is like the board is indeed not reading out the config jumpers at all, if you remove them you still have the same readout somehow. Why this would happen after changing out the battery is anyboy's guess but I'd start checking for shorts/cracks/disconnected traces around the board. It's possible the leaky old battery acid has eaten away a trace or two.

Reply 11 of 20, by Xreel

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Alright I'm going to check around for that maybe do a board cleaning with some IPA alcohol, it's possible i left some flux when i did the soldering.
Anyway here's a "better" picture of the board tell me if it's not good enough it's just kinda hard to take a good picture with my phone.

Reply 12 of 20, by Xreel

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So i was looking at the board and i took a look at the Oscillator and wanted to ask if it's at the right speed "33.333mhz" i assume since the cpu is a 33mhz that it's good but i don't really know about this stuff i know that if i change it i can overclock the cpu.
Also under the PC chip sticker there's another sticker that says SARC Rc4018a4 9324 i don't think that will be of any use but found it interesting.

And the board doesn't seem to have any traces broken the battery leakage didn't have time to reach the board i guess, and nothing that i tried so far work so yeah now i just don't know what's next tried moving other jumpers to see if they did anything and nope.

Reply 13 of 20, by Xreel

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So here's the bios settings if it can help, also i have no idea how to set it up since most of the settings are things i never saw in a bios.

Reply 14 of 20, by cyclone3d

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You need to enable the internal and external cache settings.

Edit: with the fsb as 33mhz, the AT clock should be on a 1/4 divider for standard ~8Mhz AT clock. You could probably even go up to 1/3 as everything should work just fine at 11Mhz for the AT clock.

Last edited by cyclone3d on 2021-05-19, 23:26. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 20, by Xreel

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that's it? what are the video rom adapter rom things

Reply 16 of 20, by cyclone3d

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You could enable shadow RAM as well... Might help a bit for programs that are normally accessing the ROMs directly. You will lose UMBs that way though. Just depends on how much stuff you need to loadhigh in config.sys and autoexec.bat and how much free RAM you need below 640k.

I haven't done that testing in years so I might be a bit off with the shadow RAM settings.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 17 of 20, by Xreel

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Cool but yeah i plan to set up this 486 mostly for retro games so not sure if that shadow rom thing will be necessary but i might also play with networking and eventually windows 3.11 i think the most the autoexec will see might be sound blaster and cd rom if i ever add one so far i don't know what more software would need to be in autoexec well windows and mouse i guess basic things like that while i'm at it when i tried to install dos, first, fdisk could only format the hdd to 504mb but the hdd is 2gb and the bios does detect it as a 2gb, second, dos failed to install i assume since it could not format the drive correctly and gave an error like "error detected while formatting hdd" i think. The hdd does work used it on other system and apparently it only has a total of 5days of total usage from what hard drive sentinel said and like 2000something on/off so seems about right i guess the original owner really did not used the pc for long period of time.

i think i will gave up for now at trying to make the pc read the right cpu i'm just going to set up the bios and install dos and try some of these cpu testbench software like landmark to see what's going on with the speed of the cpu, if dos let me install itself.

Reply 18 of 20, by Xreel

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WELL OH SHIT
i have no idea what happend but now the motherboard detect the cpu correctly out of no where FAK i mean cool but fak cause i have no idea what i did that fix it.

Edit: Well now i guess all that's left is the hdd format thing but i'm going to try that now and i had one last question and i wanted to ask where can i get the numeric led that would go near the turbo button the case has a little window for one but it's missing and i would like to have one but i'm not sure how it's called and if it's a little different for 486 machines i heard that they are already pre set to show the mhz of the cpu so it's not real time still it looks cool enough that i would like to add one. Oh well never mind i got a new error now that i installed dos "Error unable to control A20 line XMS driver not installed" HMA not available: loading dos low

Reply 19 of 20, by cyclone3d

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Try enabling Fast A20 Gate Option in the BIOS.

As for the HDD not formatting properly, try using a Windows 98se boot disk to partition and format th drive. Remember to set the partition active in fdisk or else it won't boot from it.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK