VOGONS


First post, by Jo22

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Hello everyone,

There's something that makes me wonder.

In the 1970s, Intel's i8080 and Zilogs Z80 were competitors.

The Z80 was made by ex-Intel employees who foundet Zilog and which did work on the i8080s previously.

The Z80 had a numerous features over the i8080, but was cheaper in price and binary compatible.
Some of these features were a single 5v voltage (ttl comppatible) and an internal DRAM refresher.
Which both were a big success.

Intel subsequently released the i8085, with a few extra instructions and also a 5v supply voltage,
but no internal DRAM refresher.
While thst chip was used in a few applications, it never came close to the famous Z80.

Now, why didn't Intel learn from this, I wonder?
Why didn't have the i8080's bigger brother, the i8086, featured a DRAM refresher?
Or its "castrated", low-cost version, the i8088, at least? Wasn't it meant to suit cheap 8-Bit motherboard designs, after all?

I know there was the late 80186/80188 from 1982 later on (-with DRAM refresher, but other incompatibilities-), but it was just like another i8085.

Why were no lessons learned?
Does anybody have any clues or theories about this matter?

Best regards,
Jo22

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 1 of 3, by BitWrangler

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Maybe Intel engineers thought at the time that DRAM was a stopgap and they'd soon be using bubble memory, memristors, high speed SRAM or something.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 2 of 3, by Jo22

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Good point! 😃 I did forget that these technologies were still fresh and in development at the time.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 3, by bakemono

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The Z80's refresh feature went obsolete very quickly. It only counts 128 rows, like a 16Kbit DRAM chip has. With 64Kb or 256Kb chips you need external logic to handle more address bits. That changes the rate that each row is refreshed, and for that matter the speed the Z80 is running at changes the refresh rate too, regardless of what DRAM chips actually require. I'm willing to bet that most Z80s that were produced were used in applications without DRAM (think arcade games, etc.) so refresh cycles were just unused bus cycles anyway.

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