VOGONS


First post, by TekTherapy

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Hello everyone!

First i´ll start with i am sorry, since i have been reading on Vogons for years but not every registered for whatever reason.
And i kinda feel bad because this community helped me on several occasions over many years! Thanks for that!

Still i really wanted to get some advice on a project i have planned for my youtube channel (@tektherapy)
To give some context i mainly create PC build videos with current hardware as well pc mod projects from time to time.

I always call them chill build videos with no talking, visually pleasing. (Taste is always a mother of opinion ofc)

Disclaimer:

Before going into my idea, i know not everyone will approve this. But so far i didn´t see many people do it in one of those fishtank cases.
And this will be actually a system i WILL use since i am building a dedicated Retro space in my house over the next weeks.

My idea and my question(s):

So recently i had the idea of actually fitting old(er) hardware into a new case with new fans and psu maybe even fit an current cpu cooler on the board (if pushing it past the stock speeds)

The NEW parts i chose for the Build:

-) Jonsbo TK1 MATX Case Black
-) Jonsbo HF120 4x Performance Fans 120mm (will be controlled via an PWM Controller)
-) Coolermaster V750 2.0 PSU 80plus Gold
-) SSDs i have multiple options on older and newer drives (would test what works with my (ATA-> SATA Adapters i own)
-) ATX - AT PSU Adaper Cable (tested works)
-) AT - PS2 Adapter

For the brains of the build itself i am unsure and need advice

I was going for a purely DOS Machine

Boards i have available:

-) SILICON STAR INTERNATIONAL, INC. PI4T PCI(available CPU 486 DX/2 66 , AMD Am5x86 P75 133)
-) ASUS TX97-E (available CPU´s Pentium 200 / Pentium 200MMX, AMD K6-2-p 366)
-) Lite On 20V0 PWB 20630-001 (Socket 7 , ATX Layout SIS 5598 Chipset)

Graphics Cards PCI:

-) Voodoo 2 12mb and 8mb (Diamond cards)
-) Voodoo 3 3000 16mb (i have multiple of those available)
-) S3 Trio Virge 4mb
-) ATI Rage IIC 4mb
-) Trident Blade 3d 8mb

Sound Cards:

-) Terratec EWS64 XL ISA
-) Sound Blaster AWE64 (non-gold) ISA (Ct4520) ISA Card
-) ESS Audio 1869F ISA Card
-) Ensoniq ES1370 PCI

Network Cards: (not sure on even using one but maybe for using a stack to access my UNRAID nas)

-) Intel 82559 PCI Card
-) 3com 905B PCI Card
-) Realtek 8139b PCI Card
-) Netgear FA311 rev-d2

I am aware i can´t use a cdrom drive without shoehorning an external solution from Pata to Sata in external Case.
But i was generally thinking on using something like SHSUCDX or similar to just mount images i have on my unraid nas.

For the Board layout, i would actually prefer not going the Easy Route on using the ATX Board, but i am open for suggestions / opinions.
I intend to basically flip the layout of the board so the connectors / slots face downwards.

The case has enough cable routing space in that orientation to feed all the cables this way thru the case.
I would drill new holes/threads to be able to use proper standoffs for the Motherboard.

Space wise the Abit Board would fit easy, the TX97-E barely.

And depending on what CPU/Board i use i would have a new CPU Cooler from Jonsbo here as well which i would create a mounting plate for.
I know it´s not really necessary on some CPU´s but would fit the "NEW" aesthetic i guess.

I will not go to a crazy RGB route. But i intend to route some led strips and maybe do some goldish/white lighting to highlight some of the parts.

Maybe you could give me your opinions or ideas!

I do not intend do a high-end DOS Build with an later Athlon or AGP Board. Since if the Video performs i intend on doing a video with a separate build later down the road and rather do an Ultimate Win98 Build thn.

Thanks everyone!

Reply 1 of 8, by dominusprog

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Go with

ASUS TX97-E with Pentium 200MMX
Voodoo 2 12mb and 8mb and S3 Trio Virge 4mb
Terratec EWS64 XL and ESS Audio 1869F
3com 905B PCI Card

Duke_2600.png
A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Aztech Pro16 II-3D PnP ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 2 of 8, by chinny22

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Keeping in mind that you also want to do a youtube video.

ASUS TX97-E
486 is more interesting IMHO, but its too slow (maybe a future video comparing the 2)
and if you don't want the easy ATX option then that's fair enough.

Graphics
Voodoo 2 and either S3 Virge or the Rage 2.
This way could show off either S3D or ATI CIF.
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

Sound
Terratec EWS64 XL
Both the AWE and ESS cards are very good but also common the Terratec is fairly rare in a build and bit of a hidden gem in the ISA soundcard market.

Network.
Networking is very useful, especially if your not going to have a CD drive. The retro community loves the 3Com. Persoanlly I just use what I have on hand and works, The Netgear was the most tricky out of those cards for me but it server in a 486 for a number of years just fine.

Reply 3 of 8, by TekTherapy

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dominusprog wrote on 2024-02-25, 12:50:
Go with […]
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Go with

ASUS TX97-E with Pentium 200MMX
Voodoo 2 12mb and 8mb and S3 Trio Virge 4mb
Terratec EWS64 XL and ESS Audio 1869F
3com 905B PCI Card

Thanks for the suggestions appeciate it a lot!

Reply 4 of 8, by TekTherapy

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chinny22 wrote on 2024-02-25, 23:38:
Keeping in mind that you also want to do a youtube video. […]
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Keeping in mind that you also want to do a youtube video.

ASUS TX97-E
486 is more interesting IMHO, but its too slow (maybe a future video comparing the 2)
and if you don't want the easy ATX option then that's fair enough.

Graphics
Voodoo 2 and either S3 Virge or the Rage 2.
This way could show off either S3D or ATI CIF.
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

Sound
Terratec EWS64 XL
Both the AWE and ESS cards are very good but also common the Terratec is fairly rare in a build and bit of a hidden gem in the ISA soundcard market.

Network.
Networking is very useful, especially if your not going to have a CD drive. The retro community loves the 3Com. Persoanlly I just use what I have on hand and works, The Netgear was the most tricky out of those cards for me but it server in a 486 for a number of years just fine.

Thanks Chinny22!

I am still torn about the 486/Pentium Scenario.

Actually i had planned on doing an K6/2 Build with another Board later down the Road since i am doing a collab with AMD and wanted to like old tech vs recent Ryzen Gaming Build. Basically how technology advances.

So if doing TX97 on this one with an Pentium MMX let´s say there won´t be that much difference between this and the K6/2 Build maybe.
On the other hand with the TX97 and an MMX it would be a really nice dos machine. Still need to try if i can actually properly fit the bigger board in the Jonsbo Case.

For the Graphics Cards i browsed thru the forum yesterday and saw that V3 isn´t great anyway for compatibility under DOS. So i really like the idea on Doing V2 / S3.

Concerning the Soundcard(s) the only downside i read of the TerraTec is no OPL3 .. but on the other hand as you said as well it´s fairly rare and could stand out!

Thanks a bunch for all your input and recommendations!

Reply 5 of 8, by dionb

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TekTherapy wrote on 2024-02-26, 11:57:

[...]

Concerning the Soundcard(s) the only downside i read of the TerraTec is no OPL3 .. but on the other hand as you said as well it´s fairly rare and could stand out!

It's a beast - and CSFM isn't too bad as OPL3 emulation goes.

However it's a very temperamental beast and getting resources assigned correctly and all the software running can be challenging. In pure DOS it's fairly doable, so long as you don't go overboard with too many sound cards at the same time. I tried multiple times to get mine working together with an AWE64 Gold and GUS but never managed all three at the same time.

As for OPL3, none of your cards have original Yamaha OPL anyway, it's just a choice between CSFM on the EWS64 (decent), ESFM on the 1869 (good) or CQM on the AWE64 Gold (poor).

It might be interesting to see if you could get the EWS64 and AWE64 running side by side, so you could both use EMU8k AWE wavetable vs the Dream wavetable. Both support a wide range of sound fonts and both are supported by Unisound, so it should be easy enough to play around with. Might not be so easy to actually have both working at the same time though.

Reply 6 of 8, by TekTherapy

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dionb wrote on 2024-02-26, 12:53:
It's a beast - and CSFM isn't too bad as OPL3 emulation goes. […]
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TekTherapy wrote on 2024-02-26, 11:57:

[...]

Concerning the Soundcard(s) the only downside i read of the TerraTec is no OPL3 .. but on the other hand as you said as well it´s fairly rare and could stand out!

It's a beast - and CSFM isn't too bad as OPL3 emulation goes.

However it's a very temperamental beast and getting resources assigned correctly and all the software running can be challenging. In pure DOS it's fairly doable, so long as you don't go overboard with too many sound cards at the same time. I tried multiple times to get mine working together with an AWE64 Gold and GUS but never managed all three at the same time.

As for OPL3, none of your cards have original Yamaha OPL anyway, it's just a choice between CSFM on the EWS64 (decent), ESFM on the 1869 (good) or CQM on the AWE64 Gold (poor).

It might be interesting to see if you could get the EWS64 and AWE64 running side by side, so you could both use EMU8k AWE wavetable vs the Dream wavetable. Both support a wide range of sound fonts and both are supported by Unisound, so it should be easy enough to play around with. Might not be so easy to actually have both working at the same time though.

Thanks for your input Dionb!

I do like the idea on trying to make the EWS64 and AWE64 work! Especially trying to get it working with Unisound!

Pretty much set on using the EWS64 as the main card than!

Cheers!

Reply 7 of 8, by Shponglefan

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TekTherapy wrote on 2024-02-26, 11:57:

Concerning the Soundcard(s) the only downside i read of the TerraTec is no OPL3 .. but on the other hand as you said as well it´s fairly rare and could stand out!

Depending on the era of games you're targeting, lack of OPL3 may not even be relevant. Pretty much everything from 1993 onward supported either General MIDI or some form of digital audio for music (trackers, CD audio, etc.).

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 8 of 8, by TekTherapy

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-02-26, 18:07:
TekTherapy wrote on 2024-02-26, 11:57:

Concerning the Soundcard(s) the only downside i read of the TerraTec is no OPL3 .. but on the other hand as you said as well it´s fairly rare and could stand out!

Depending on the era of games you're targeting, lack of OPL3 may not even be relevant. Pretty much everything from 1993 onward supported either General MIDI or some form of digital audio for music (trackers, CD audio, etc.).

Valid point, thanks for that!

I was interested in using it (not specifically for the video) for some older titles as well. But i do own an MT32 and an SC55 as well. So i do have some options i guess.
But honestly most of the games i probably will be actively using/playing will be 90´s games.

Cheers