VOGONS


First post, by Lazar81

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Hello,
After I managed to get several GC games running (very well) on my XP machine (x5470, Radeon HD 5870, 4GB RAM) with dolphin Emulator (x86) I was wondering if I could get better visual results than dolphin's output with a real GameCube in combination with the mClassic. Of course I know on a faster machine with Windows 10 or so it would run better than it does now with version 4.0.2...

So in short:
What looks better: GameCube with mClassic or Dolphin emulator?

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 1 of 9, by Laser

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do not try dolphin on winxp or any win32
the last 32 bits version is 4.x and is old and very buggy
use dolphin only in win 10 x64

winxp is for older emulators not new, you will save lot of headaches
the mos complex emul you can try in winxp is pcsx2 1. 5.x

Reply 2 of 9, by Lazar81

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Laser wrote on 2021-07-06, 14:23:
do not try dolphin on winxp or any win32 the last 32 bits version is 4.x and is old and very buggy use dolphin only in win 10 […]
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do not try dolphin on winxp or any win32
the last 32 bits version is 4.x and is old and very buggy
use dolphin only in win 10 x64

winxp is for older emulators not new, you will save lot of headaches
the mos complex emul you can try in winxp is pcsx2 1. 5.x

Nothing new to me. And if you read my initial post carefully you can see that.
Please feel free not to care for my head. 😬
Can you tell something about the graphics quality in comparison of dolphin and a real GC with mClassic?

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 3 of 9, by Laser

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Lazar81 wrote on 2021-07-06, 14:47:
Nothing new to me. And if you read my initial post carefully you can see that. Please feel free not to care for my head. 😬 Can […]
Show full quote
Laser wrote on 2021-07-06, 14:23:
do not try dolphin on winxp or any win32 the last 32 bits version is 4.x and is old and very buggy use dolphin only in win 10 […]
Show full quote

do not try dolphin on winxp or any win32
the last 32 bits version is 4.x and is old and very buggy
use dolphin only in win 10 x64

winxp is for older emulators not new, you will save lot of headaches
the mos complex emul you can try in winxp is pcsx2 1. 5.x

Nothing new to me. And if you read my initial post carefully you can see that.
Please feel free not to care for my head. 😬
Can you tell something about the graphics quality in comparison of dolphin and a real GC with mClassic?

the mclassic it does not make much difference other than sharpen the image a bit, it doesn't feature antialias
in Dolphin if you set internal resolution to 3x native or higher offers far better graphic quality than a real game cube + mclassic

in youtube there are videos which compares some game in gamecube alone and gamecube + mclassic
then you can compare with your own dolphin results you will see in seconds that dolphin rocks

Reply 4 of 9, by Lazar81

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.... I expected that... Meanwhile I watched some of these videos you mentioned. Thanks. So I stay with dolphin... The results for Metroid prime 2 where fantastic on my Windows 10 setup

Just one more thing: the manufacturer does say that the mClassic provides AA.

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 5 of 9, by darry

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Lazar81 wrote on 2021-07-06, 16:31:

.... I expected that... Meanwhile I watched some of these videos you mentioned. Thanks. So I stay with dolphin... The results for Metroid prime 2 where fantastic on my Windows 10 setup

Just one more thing: the manufacturer does say that the mClassic provides AA.

TBH, I find the mClassic's marketing blurb to be a bit misleading when calling it a graphics card. At the end of the day, the mClassic is an upscaler with post-processing functionality . It may very good at what it does, but there is only so much that you can do with a low-resolution image generated by a vintage console . An emulator, such as Dolphin, can actually render 3D graphics at a higher resolution than the original hardware, something that can only be simulated/approximated using a post processor .

Anti-aliasing, in the broadest sense, is any method that reduces aliasing or the appearance thereof, so if the mCable (or another post-processor/upscaler) uses some kind adaptive (most likely temporal) filter that reduces the appearance of the "jaggies" that are due to aliasing it is, in effect, providing a form of anti-aliasing . Not all forms of anti-aliasing are equal in their effectiveness and only some methods can be implemented exclusively as a post-processing effect . See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-aliasing as a starting point .

EDIT : One, admittedly imperfect analogy, is trying to use an image processor to improve the appearance of a VHS movie versus going with the DVD (or Blu Ray) version instead .

Reply 7 of 9, by ZellSF

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I would get a Wii for GameCube games. Sure its component output is worse than a Gamecube, but it also supports the entire Wii library. Just make sure to get one of the early Wii consoles (the later ones removed GameCube support).

Last time I tried Dolphin, and it was after ubershaders, frame pacing was still pretty awful at times. Resolution forcing also sometimes gave noticeable enough glitches that I would rather stick with native resolution. Plus it was a lot of configuration. Not saying the higher resolution isn't nice at times, but I wouldn't say it's always the best choice.

Some (important, not all) mClassic cables do apparently do something similar to FXAA/SMAA , but post-processing anti-aliasing is worse for the image the lower resolution you go so 480p would probably not be all that good for them. They also all seem to do artificial sharpening and color manipulation, which spoils image quality. I hope one of upcoming upscalers (OSSC Pro / Pixel FX Morph) will have anti-aliasing without that stuff. I wouldn't get a mCable anyway.

Reply 8 of 9, by Lazar81

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-07-07, 17:47:

I would get a Wii for GameCube games. Sure its component output is worse than a Gamecube, but it also supports the entire Wii library. Just make sure to get one of the early Wii consoles (the later ones removed GameCube support).

Last time I tried Dolphin, and it was after ubershaders, frame pacing was still pretty awful at times. Resolution forcing also sometimes gave noticeable enough glitches that I would rather stick with native resolution. Plus it was a lot of configuration. Not saying the higher resolution isn't nice at times, but I wouldn't say it's always the best choice.

Some (important, not all) mClassic cables do apparently do something similar to FXAA/SMAA , but post-processing anti-aliasing is worse for the image the lower resolution you go so 480p would probably not be all that good for them. They also all seem to do artificial sharpening and color manipulation, which spoils image quality. I hope one of upcoming upscalers (OSSC Pro / Pixel FX Morph) will have anti-aliasing without that stuff. I wouldn't get a mCable anyway.

Mmmh... At the moment I'm playing Metroid Prime 2 with 1440 resolution. It looks fantastic. I am playing it with an i5-2500k @ 4.2Ghz and a 1050ti - it mostly runs fluently at 60hz but sometimes I have some drops that I can't explain... Maybe I should try a lower resolution...

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 9 of 9, by mrpenguinb

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Lazar81 wrote on 2021-07-08, 08:23:

Mmmh... At the moment I'm playing Metroid Prime 2 with 1440 resolution. It looks fantastic. I am playing it with an i5-2500k @ 4.2Ghz and a 1050ti - it mostly runs fluently at 60hz but sometimes I have some drops that I can't explain... Maybe I should try a lower resolution...

1080p would have less dips in performance. The Metroid Prime series/trilogy is very demanding on Dolphin IIRC.
I use a 1050 Ti with a i7-2600 with the Metroid Trilogy and there were performance dips infrequently.
Dolphin relies heavily on a CPU with high GHz and only needs a CPU with 3 cores at most.