star control vs masters of orion

whats the difference? i though they were the same thing?

Also some one said Sega Genesis so i'm obligated to say "SEGA CDX" 😁

Tec Toy made licensed Sega consoles in Brazil, the worst version of a "Master System", was one they made. Which was just a console without any kind of cartridge slot, and just built in games. Damn that was a shame seeing that. But their other master systems were sweet. Cause they indeed real Master Systems.

Anyway the wiki article is pretty extensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tectoy

Ancient DOS Games Filler #44 - Hollywood Heat Pinball is online!

...and yes, this is for real. :)

I posted a ton of additional info on my website this time around since I was doing this video unscripted, so be sure to give it a read. I go into my philosophy of how I save money to be able to buy really awesome things like this as well as some more of the intricate details behind the how and why of things, as well as providing links to a couple threads I posted on Pinside talking about the experience in general.

As for the moment, I'm really tired and need sleep. Goodnight! :B

Can't believe this isn't getting any love!!

Owning a pinball table!! Balls yeah!

Well, we are on a forum mostly devoted to old PC games. Plopping down a grand for a 28-year-old pinball machine when that same money could buy a couple or four dozen PC games (or several pieces of retro computing hardware) may seem a bit odd, but then we all have our interests, and right now is one of the best times to get back into pinball given the resurgence it's been seeing in the past couple years! :)

I've never been a fan of a real pinball games and had only twice played the real thing, but I spend many hours playing Silverball for DOS. Your pinball videos were very interesting and thanks to them I recently made a pinball game myself. Actually it's a pinball game that was meant to look like a DOS game. It's also my first Ludum Dare entry:
http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-31/?act … eview&uid=44857

Video preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h0vgstP07M
(on rotated 9:16 aspect display)

Creating a game that works best with 320x200 resolution and has SoundBlaster/Adlib music was the best part of whole experience.
In past episode about pinball, you've talked about physics in computer pinball games. I was thinking since then, how good would be a real physics engine. I used Box2D and it's definitely capable of enjoyable simulation, but it isn't feel 'just right'. Maybe 3D physics engine would perform better allowing ball to rotate in 3 different axes. Someday I will try that. Maybe after another ADG filler featuring pinball:)

ishadow wrote:

I've never been a fan of a real pinball games and had only twice played the real thing, but I spend many hours playing Silverbal […]
Show full quote

I've never been a fan of a real pinball games and had only twice played the real thing, but I spend many hours playing Silverball for DOS. Your pinball videos were very interesting and thanks to them I recently made a pinball game myself. Actually it's a pinball game that was meant to look like a DOS game. It's also my first Ludum Dare entry:
http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-31/?act … eview&uid=44857

Video preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h0vgstP07M
(on rotated 9:16 aspect display)

Interesting little thing. Most pinball machines don't have time limits though. ;)

As for playing the digital stuff over the real stuff, it's actually somewhat understandable given that the digital stuff is often easier because of how the physics work. The ball motions are more predictable, even though you have less control over what you can actually do with the ball.

ishadow wrote:

Creating a game that works best with 320x200 resolution and has SoundBlaster/Adlib music was the best part of whole experience.
In past episode about pinball, you've talked about physics in computer pinball games. I was thinking since then, how good would be a real physics engine. I used Box2D and it's definitely capable of enjoyable simulation, but it isn't feel 'just right'. Maybe 3D physics engine would perform better allowing ball to rotate in 3 different axes. Someday I will try that. Maybe after another ADG filler featuring pinball:)

Ball physics in real life are really complicated. I mean, more-so than you can ever imagine.

Here's a few examples which I have yet to see a pinball program properly emulate:

1. In real life, the ball can "slide". IE: Move across the table without actually spinning. Making this even more complicated, the ball can slide in one direction yet spin in another. When traction takes effect this can cause the ball to move in extremely unpredictable ways, such as moving up the playfield for a second, then suddenly stopping and veering 90-degrees to the right. Most modern pinball programs DO emulate ball spin to some degree, but they don't emulate the slide effect and it's extremely difficult to emulate in the first place because of why it even happens.

2. In real life, solid objects on the table "flex", whereas in a digital program, every object is 100% stationary. Even metal rails absorb and reflect kinetic energy to a degree you simply do not see in digital pinball programs.

3. In real life, spinners are solid objects. The ball can clip them, the ball can be slowed down to moved by them, and in extremely rare scenarios, balls can actually get stuck under them because they're not spinning freely and the ball comes to rest against it without pushing through it completely.

4. In real life, the ball can and will jump over objects. I've seen the ball jump over flippers, jump onto floating wireforms, jump over solid walls into the shooter lane, I've even witnessed a ball bounce off of the skirt at the bottom of the playfield, jump over a flipper that was lifted up, and come to rest on it! (Happened during the final rounds of a competition I was watching online.) You will never see this sort of witchery in digital programs. :P

Gemini000 wrote:

As for playing the digital stuff over the real stuff, it's actually somewhat understandable given that the digital stuff is ofte […]
Show full quote

As for playing the digital stuff over the real stuff, it's actually somewhat understandable given that the digital stuff is often easier because of how the physics work. The ball motions are more predictable, even though you have less control over what you can actually do with the ball.
...
Ball physics in real life are really complicated. I mean, more-so than you can ever imagine.

Here's a few examples which I have yet to see a pinball program properly emulate:

1. In real life, the ball can "slide". IE: Move across the table without actually spinning. Making this even more complicated, the ball can slide in one direction yet spin in another. When traction takes effect this can cause the ball to move in extremely unpredictable ways, such as moving up the playfield for a second, then suddenly stopping and veering 90-degrees to the right. Most modern pinball programs DO emulate ball spin to some degree, but they don't emulate the slide effect and it's extremely difficult to emulate in the first place because of why it even happens.

2. In real life, solid objects on the table "flex", whereas in a digital program, every object is 100% stationary. Even metal rails absorb and reflect kinetic energy to a degree you simply do not see in digital pinball programs.

3. In real life, spinners are solid objects. The ball can clip them, the ball can be slowed down to moved by them, and in extremely rare scenarios, balls can actually get stuck under them because they're not spinning freely and the ball comes to rest against it without pushing through it completely.

4. In real life, the ball can and will jump over objects. I've seen the ball jump over flippers, jump onto floating wireforms, jump over solid walls into the shooter lane, I've even witnessed a ball bounce off of the skirt at the bottom of the playfield, jump over a flipper that was lifted up, and come to rest on it! (Happened during the final rounds of a competition I was watching online.) You will never see this sort of witchery in digital programs. 😜

Though it isn't tackling most of the issues you raise here, there is an updated version of Visual Pinball that has a somewhat more realistic physics model, known as the "physmod", currently on it's fifth iteration: http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=27416&hl=physics.

It provides:

• Much finer resolution on the Physics framerate (raised from 100 Hz to 1000 Hz).
• Makes physics framerate independent of graphics framerate.
• Ball spin
• Friction on contact and collisions.
• More realistic flipper action (i.e. movement beyond on/off, etc.)

Unfortunately tables need to be modified to take advantage of these features so there are only a limited set of available tables as of yet.

such as moving up the playfield for a second, then suddenly stopping and veering 90-degrees to the right. Most modern pinball programs DO emulate ball spin to some degree, but they don't emulate the slide effect and it's extremely difficult to emulate in the first place because of why it even happens.

Snooker games simulate this to some degree, because it's one of the core mechanic of a snooker game. On the 3D physics engine end it's actually possible to do this kind of movement. Applying force by flipper don't change the ball rotation in visible way. Only board friction does. When ball suddenly stops by hitting something the rotation kicks in and ball can move in let's call it unpredictable way.

In real life, solid objects on the table "flex", whereas in a digital program, every object is 100% stationary. Even metal rails absorb and reflect kinetic energy to a degree you simply do not see in digital pinball programs.

It can be also simulate with physics materials, that is applying specified bounciness, friction etc. to various colliders. It's a matter of careful adjusting the values. As a last resort springs and other scripted forced can be used to add "flex" to board elements.

In real life, spinners are solid objects. The ball can clip them, the ball can be slowed down to moved by them, and in extremely rare scenarios, balls can actually get stuck under them because they're not spinning freely and the ball comes to rest against it without pushing through it completely.

Then why not do a spinner as a real collider instead of simple trigger with scripted animation?

In real life, the ball can and will jump over objects. I've seen the ball jump over flippers, jump onto floating wireforms, jump over solid walls into the shooter lane, I've even witnessed a ball bounce off of the skirt at the bottom of the playfield, jump over a flipper that was lifted up, and come to rest on it! (Happened during the final rounds of a competition I was watching online.) You will never see this sort of witchery in digital programs. 😜

Because pinball games uses some kind of a 2D physics engines instead of 3D ones like PhysX or Havoc. It's just easier to manage 2D simulation, ball jumping in every direction is a nightmare to game designer because it can lead to unpredictable behavior including game breaking bugs like ball stuck in a place that it should never be in a first place.
Other aspect is that fun physics are more desirable than real physics in video games. Like in every space game I've played spaceships had maximum speed, which is just plain stupid. Cars, planes, boats etc. have maximum velocity because of an air drag, but in space if an object has applied constant force it can accelerate to a speed of light at least in theory, but there's one gameplay breaking thing. If a spaceship was accelerating for 20 seconds with full thrusters it will need 20 seconds of reversed thrust to stop.

Much finer resolution on the Physics framerate (raised from 100 Hz to 1000 Hz).
Makes physics framerate independent of graphics framerate.

Increasing physics framerate isn't a good thing in most cases. Better way is to use a continuous collision detection, which in pinball case will be used just for every ball in game. In almost every game physics framerate is independent form renderer framerate. Physics engines work best when they have constant time intervals between iterations and it's set at 20 or 30 fps in most games. This physics frames can be easily interpolated to any amount of renderer frames, because each movable object has a position and it's velocity and it's position between frames can be easily calculated.

When I have time, I will try to make a very simple 3D pinball prototype. Trying to achieve all this realistic/odd behavior.

kolano wrote:

Though it isn't tackling most of the issues you raise here, there is an updated version of Visual Pinball that has a somewhat more realistic physics model, known as the "physmod", currently on it's fifth iteration

I've already tried it out. It's... still a long ways away from feeling like the real thing, but at least it feels more real than the original VP8 and VP9 physics do. :B

ishadow wrote:

Snooker games simulate this to some degree, because it's one of the core mechanic of a snooker game. On the 3D physics engine end it's actually possible to do this kind of movement. Applying force by flipper don't change the ball rotation in visible way. Only board friction does. When ball suddenly stops by hitting something the rotation kicks in and ball can move in let's call it unpredictable way.

Yup. All I was saying was that pinball programs DON'T do this for whatever reason. :P

ishadow wrote:

It can be also simulate with physics materials, that is applying specified bounciness, friction etc. to various colliders. It's a matter of careful adjusting the values. As a last resort springs and other scripted forced can be used to add "flex" to board elements.

This is what all modern pinball programs already do, but guess what? It doesn't really work!

The guys who make Pinball Arcade have stated that they can tweak the physics of every single little thing on the tables they recreate to give ball reactions off of objects that feel like it really should, however, I've noticed that this only applies to typical bounces, IE: how the ball is expected to hit those objects. When you get an atypical bounce, the ball hitting an object in a way it normally won't, it never feels right.

A great example of this is the metal rail on my Hollywood Heat game right by the left flipper. It's a METAL rail, one would assume it should have metal-like physics, but when the ball actually strikes it from a perpendicular angle, it presses into it almost like it would a rubber piece on the playfield and bounces off with a surprisingly large amount of force... but it's NOT rubber. When the ball rolls down onto the rail from the left lanes, if this metal rail reacted like rubber when the ball slid onto it, it could very easily just bounce back out and down the hole at the left of it.

Dealing with objects like this is a physics nightmare due to the lack of real flex going on since it's that flex which is causing this metal rail to act like metal OR rubber depending on the ball angle, velocity, and where along that rail it even makes contact... and pinball machines are FILLED with surfaces like these! :o

ishadow wrote:

Then why not do a spinner as a real collider instead of simple trigger with scripted animation?

Because physics engines are typically programmed to analyse frame positions, whereas in real life, every picosecond of movement is a physics frame. Increasing the physics rate helps, but you're still left with the potential for very strange things to happen, such as the ball being 25% phased into a spinner that's already spinning in the wrong direction when the physics frame does its calculations. When something like that happens it contradicts all assumptions you could possibly make about how the spinner and ball should react given their current movement properties, and thus you can't reliably determine how the ball or spinner should react to that scenario, thus your only hope is to assume a default exception state to your physics and proceed from there.

In short, you COULD do this, but it still wouldn't feel real no matter how hard you tried.

ishadow wrote:

Increasing physics framerate isn't a good thing in most cases. Better way is to use a continuous collision detection, which in pinball case will be used just for every ball in game. In almost every game physics framerate is independent form renderer framerate. Physics engines work best when they have constant time intervals between iterations and it's set at 20 or 30 fps in most games. This physics frames can be easily interpolated to any amount of renderer frames, because each movable object has a position and it's velocity and it's position between frames can be easily calculated.

When I have time, I will try to make a very simple 3D pinball prototype. Trying to achieve all this realistic/odd behavior.

Given how long the VP10 engine's taking, I think you'd have your work cut out for you... Props if you can pull it off though. :B

Gemini000 wrote:

Ancient DOS Games Filler #44 - Hollywood Heat Pinball is online! […]
Show full quote

Ancient DOS Games Filler #44 - Hollywood Heat Pinball is online!

...and yes, this is for real. 😀

I posted a ton of additional info on my website this time around since I was doing this video unscripted, so be sure to give it a read. I go into my philosophy of how I save money to be able to buy really awesome things like this as well as some more of the intricate details behind the how and why of things, as well as providing links to a couple threads I posted on Pinside talking about the experience in general.

As for the moment, I'm really tired and need sleep. Goodnight! :B

just have to say congrats on the awesome purchase. Being a huge fan of Miami vice, I have to say that I love the theme despite not really being official Miami vice memorabilia. ..it still says a lot about that era...great piece of history!

Great video as always. Thanks for sharing.

Gemini000 wrote:

Because physics engines are typically programmed to analyse frame positions, whereas in real life, every picosecond of movement is a physics frame. Increasing the physics rate helps, but you're still left with the potential for very strange things to happen, such as the ball being 25% phased into a spinner that's already spinning in the wrong direction when the physics frame does its calculations.

Discrete simulation is a good approach when there's a lot of slow moving objects as it's provides good accuracy and speed. Other approach is to process every possible collision. Which requires more CPU power but it's possible. Each object is described by it's position, colliders, and velocities. Engine can check every possible collision that could take place between frames. In Pinball only balls can collide with other objects, so there's only 1-10 objects to check their trajectories and process every possible collisions, and there's aren't many pinballs with multiball larger than 3 balls. Furthermore we are talking about balls, the most trivial object to simulate.

There's actually other reason that prevents real pinball simulations: lack of interests. From my previous experience with game publishers: fun>system requirements>real physics. It would be hard to convince them to publish a fun, casual pinball game and nearly impossible to do a game for pinball enthusiasts.

Gemini000 wrote:

Given how long the VP10 engine's taking, I think you'd have your work cut out for you... Props if you can pull it off though. :B

Visual Pinball is a freeware software and for various reasons they don't want to or can't use commercial physics engines. I haven't played yet but as I've seen on youtube they're using some sort of 2D engine which from my experience it's just can't do a decent job.

Anyway, here's my very simple pinball prototype in 3D: http://youtu.be/UliqJ2yNKS0
I intentionally disabled "glass" over the board so ball can jump over objects. Building this was actually easy, but tuning was just insane, especially without a real pinball machine to compare. I had to manually tune weight, friction, bounciness to be somewhat similar with real pinball. Anyway at least rotation is working better and ball model was made to see it easily.
It was fun to do such an experiment, but I'm done for now.

I'm looking forward for a holiday episode of ADG. Music clue was actually easy. Those bass samples can only be from one DOS game:) This series had various holiday expansion, there were christmas and even easter edition for the second game in the series.

ishadow wrote:

Anyway, here's my very simple pinball prototype in 3D: http://youtu.be/UliqJ2yNKS0
I intentionally disabled "glass" over the board so ball can jump over objects. Building this was actually easy, but tuning was just insane, especially without a real pinball machine to compare. I had to manually tune weight, friction, bounciness to be somewhat similar with real pinball. Anyway at least rotation is working better and ball model was made to see it easily.
It was fun to do such an experiment, but I'm done for now.

You are still a long ways away from real pinball physics there, but the funny thing is I recently started playing "Rollers of the Realm" on Steam, which is a sort of pinball RPG, and the physics you have going there are similar to what's in the game... probably because both use Unity. :B

I suspect one of these days someone will manage to pull off extremely accurate physics, but it's probably still gonna be awhile before that happens.

Common "mistakes" when programming a pinball physics system:

* The balls are HEAVY. They're essentially 1 1/16" spheres of solid carbon steel. Thus they can impart quite a lot of force into anything they hit, even at low speeds.

* Almost every surface the ball can bounce off of is more bouncy than it should be. This includes flippers, metal wireforms, plastic posts, one-way doors... about the only surface that's NOT is the actual wood of the cabinet itself, however, few pinball machines actually make it possible for the ball to strike the cabinet sides like that. (Mine ironically is one of those few.)

* The surface of the playfield imparts friction into the ball. Not a lot, but enough that if the ball is moving only slightly horizontally, it will slow to a stop on the horizontal axis and move only vertically... unless your playfield isn't level in which case it will veer to one side. Many simulations treat the playfield as having zero friction since, for anyone who doesn't normally play pinball, this feels more "natural" and feels more like the way it should be.

* The flippers only have power on the upstroke, plus, near the end of the upstroke their high-voltage power is lost as a special "end of stroke" switch in the flipper mechanism switches the flipper power from high-voltage to low-voltage so that it can be held up without overheating in seconds. The low-voltage power is only enough to hold the flipper and some balls and isn't really powerful enough to send the ball anywhere. When the ball comes down and strikes a held-up flipper at high speed, it may override the hold power and push the flipper down... but as soon as the end of stroke switch disengages the high-voltage power will come right back, possibly causing the flipper to "flutter" and bounce the ball as a result. Furthermore, when you let go of the flipper button, the flipper falls back down due to gravity since now there's zero power in it. If the flipper were to fall onto a ball the ball would barely get pushed at all and instead, the flipper would practically ride the ball, whereas in many pinball simulations, both 2D and 3D, the downstroke is considered to have just as much power as the upstroke. :P

* When drop targets reset, they are shot back up using a solenoid in much the same way a slingshot or flipper works. In most simulations when a drop target resets and touches the ball in the process, it simply goes back down again. In real life though, the force of the impact will send the ball flying and the drop target will stay up! Only after the solenoid disengages can the drop targets be knocked down again.

* Again with drop targets, most simulations only check to see if the ball and drop target collide. In real life, drop targets can only be pushed in one direction, thus if the ball isn't moving in a direction that could push the drop target, it won't actually move, plus there needs to be enough force to push the drop target back far enough to go down. If you only push it back a fraction of a mm, it's not going down, but it'll still be pushed back slightly so the next time it's hit slightly it may very well go down. The design of the drop target makes a huge difference too, as Bally's drop targets were notorious for not going down if you hit them too strongly.

I could go on but as you can see, pinball physics are a whole other can of worms compared to the kinds of generalized physics we're used to in video games! :B

There's one thing I did wrong in setting PhysX. This engine and actually all engines I used set a very high default inertia and simulation looks like it would be on a moon even if gravity is set at Earth's 9,8m/s. When set board angle to 30' ball barely moved, then I set a much higher gravity for a ball to move faster and it was just avoiding the real problem. With inertia set to as low as possible everything is looking way better. On Earth's gravity ball accelerates fast and smooth and rotates a lot faster, as a real would.
This odd inertia is quite common in video games. It's most visible in ragdolls that fly like on the moon or in slow motion.

Gemini000 wrote:

Furthermore, when you let go of the flipper button, the flipper falls back down due to gravity since now there's zero power in it. If the flipper were to fall onto a ball the ball would barely get pushed at all and instead, the flipper would practically ride the ball, whereas in many pinball simulations, both 2D and 3D, the downstroke is considered to have just as much power as the upstroke. 😜

In my simulations flippers are rigid bodies with attached hinges that have motors. At first I did when player pushes a key, motor is spinning a flipper up, when player releases a key motor is off and flipper falls with gravity. But with default wrong inertia it was falling way to slow, so I switched to: motor works all the time and pushing a button switches it direction.

Gemini000 wrote:

but as soon as the end of stroke switch disengages the high-voltage power will come right back, possibly causing the flipper to "flutter" and bounce the ball as a result.

In my Ludum Dare game Box2D did that unintentionally. Someone even notice that and thought of it as a bug:

If you hold shift and the ball fall on a bat, the bat moves end send back your ball even if you keep holding the key.

To create a good simulation, extensive research of a real pinball behavior should be done. Weight and measure all the elements, and install a few high speed and high res cameras, to analyse every object physics properties and that should be repeated for every table we would want to simulate:)
There's only one problem, each pinball machine even of the same type behaves slightly differently, and even one machine behavior changes through it's lifetime as is components wore out.

Gemini000 wrote:

I could go on but as you can see, pinball physics are a whole other can of worms compared to the kinds of generalized physics we're used to in video games! :B

Actually in almost every game physics is done for fun and not for realism. Same goes for graphics, particularly water looks way better than in real life. In reality water is dull, when it has waves there's hardly any clear reflection, when it's calm it's like a plain mirror. Same goes for sound for example gunshot sound is heavily processed compared to the real one.
The irony is that players would not like realistic elements in a game but will buy games that are advertised as realistic. Same goes for pinball, casual players would be just confused with real physics and die hard pinball fans would rather play a real machine than computer simulation. As I said good simulation would require a lot of time and money that would never paid off. Unless someone would do a Kickstarter to raise enough cash, but even then it would be just hard to pull off. Anyway I just learned something useful through all of this:)

ishadow wrote:

Actually in almost every game physics is done for fun and not for realism. Same goes for graphics, particularly water looks way better than in real life. In reality water is dull, when it has waves there's hardly any clear reflection, when it's calm it's like a plain mirror. Same goes for sound for example gunshot sound is heavily processed compared to the real one.
The irony is that players would not like realistic elements in a game but will buy games that are advertised as realistic. Same goes for pinball, casual players would be just confused with real physics and die hard pinball fans would rather play a real machine than computer simulation. As I said good simulation would require a lot of time and money that would never paid off. Unless someone would do a Kickstarter to raise enough cash, but even then it would be just hard to pull off. Anyway I just learned something useful through all of this:)

I've actually sent a suggestion to Farsight Studios (producers of Pinball Arcade) to perhaps have a physics setting between, "Casual" and "Pro", whereby the "Casual" physics are easier to play with and more predictable, IE: the way it is now, and the "Pro" physics behave as much closer to real life as possible including 3D ball motions such as air balls and such. Granted, sounds neat in theory, but to actually DO this, they'd have to go over all 50+ tables in their program and make tons of changes and tweaks, as well as measure responses from real machines and such... It would be a daunting task. >_<;

Ancient DOS Games Filler #45 - Re-Themed Christmas Games is online!

So, considering the lack of Christmas-related videos I've done I'm sure a bunch of people I wonder if I even celebrate Christmas or not. The answer is: Yes, but not as a religious holiday. To me, Christmas is a time to spend with friends and family, giving gifts and chatting it up. To me, it's all about taking the time to enjoy everything life has to offer and spreading that joy to the people around me. I may not be Christian but I think the lengths some people go to in order to make Christmas time less like Christmas is absurd. If you want your religion (or lack of religion) reflected at this time of year you should get people together and simply celebrate the things you want to celebrate, or if you don't want to celebrate anything then let everyone else have their fun and try not to be so angry at the fact that other people are having more fun than you just because you don't want to. :P

Anyways, that's my Christmas mini-rant. As for this final ADG video of the year, I decided to take a quick look at some games I've already covered in prior episodes. Specifically, the Christmas versions of them. This video turned out to be pretty short as a result because honestly, there's very little to say about these games which I haven't already talked about, which is another part of the reason why it took so long to finally get a Christmas-related video made. I may do another such video in the future though I'd have to get more intimately familiar with the various Christmas games out there as I never really played any in the past and this week was my first time playing pretty much all of these re-themed games... save for Tyrian 2000 of course since that's not a re-themed game, it just happens to have a "Christmas Mode" in it. ;)

Hmm... very weird. RGB Classic Games seem to be down for whatever reason. Keeps giving me that Error 500 from HostGater every time I click on a game from their website. Anyone else getting the same problem as well?

Very nice filler video. The Holiday Hare games are a hoot, and I see you found the "Doofus" secret in the 94 version as well 😁 . I'll be sending my guess for the next game review very soon.

@switchblade: I'm getting the same error message. Looks like RGB Classic Games is having some sort of host problems/issues 😐

switchblade wrote:

Hmm... very weird. RGB Classic Games seem to be down for whatever reason. Keeps giving me that Error 500 from HostGater every time I click on a game from their website. Anyone else getting the same problem as well?

This must've only JUST started... Probably a glitch in the system seeing as the rest of the site is working fine, just nothing in the "game" directory. Once DOSguy realizes something's up he'll probably get it fixed ASAP. :B

Aw, was expecting Christmas Lemmings to be included in this.