Sounds fair. It's been 11 years since any Voodoo card came out.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh well, linux jumped the shark for me since KDE 3.5 was abandoned anyway and that pulseaudio crap started gaining 'popularity'.

I think it's a huge mistake because a lot of people use Linux specifically because of the lack of support for their hardware in newer versions of Windows. If Linux is going to drop support, they may as well buy a newer machine that runs Windows 7. I don't think they appreciate just how many people are running Linux on old hardware simply because it can't handle the latest Windows and how many Linux users they are going to lose when Linux only supports the same hardware that Windows does.

yeah I guess all those gamers on Linux with Voodoo cards are now SOL when they try to play their old DOS/Windows games....oh wait.

Dosfreak is right and I agree that dropping legacy support is ok. Voodoo cards are only good for retro machines for playing. Any other card is good enough for linux desktop or opengl games.

DosFreak wrote:

yeah I guess all those gamers on Linux with Voodoo cards are now SOL when they try to play their old DOS/Windows games....oh wait.

Linux needs every user they can get. Alienating owners of old hardware doesn't do them any favors when all those people trade up to newer machines running Windows instead of Linux. Linux will become less viable as an alternative operating system, not more.

Dominus wrote:

Dosfreak is right and I agree that dropping legacy support is ok. Voodoo cards are only good for retro machines for playing. Any other card is good enough for linux desktop or opengl games.

Did you see the full list? Voodoo's were only part of what is getting dropped. ATi Rage, Matrox and other cards are being dropped, too.

Linux is not dependent on users and doesn't need to do everything to keep everyone happy. That's a nice thing.
So they drop legacy support in mewer linux for old hardware. That's a common thing to do. It's not as if the old linux boxes will suddenly stop working. And people with decades old hardware tend to stick to decades old OS' anyway.

sliderider wrote:

Dominus wrote:

Dosfreak is right and I agree that dropping legacy support is ok. Voodoo cards are only good for retro machines for playing. Any other card is good enough for linux desktop or opengl games.

Did you see the full list? Voodoo's were only part of what is getting dropped. ATi Rage, Matrox and other cards are being dropped, too.

Sometimes it's better to drop compatibility. Who the hell uses these for everyday use anyway? Most of these chips are unable to even accelerate DVD decoding properly and the Voodoo series is the only worthwhile using for Retro gaming (and Matrox too as a 2D card). If you are that desperate, you can always use older drivers right?
Or pay 20$ for a new graphics card FFS. And while you're at it get a new machine. 🙄

Dominus wrote:

Linux is not dependent on users and doesn't need to do everything to keep everyone happy. That's a nice thing.
So they drop legacy support in mewer linux for old hardware. That's a common thing to do. It's not as if the old linux boxes will suddenly stop working. And people with decades old hardware tend to stick to decades old OS' anyway.

You're still missing it. Part of the appeal of using Linux on old hardware instead of Windows is that you still get feature and security updates that you don't get in the latest Windows that your hardware is capable of running. If all those users get dropped, what is their incentive to stay with Linux when they are forced to upgrade their hardware?

Oh, and yes, Linux does need users. If everyone stopped using Linux what would be the point of continuing development?

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux...
That said, I highly doubt that those people that are actually using up to date linux with their old hardware are more than a handfull. If they are so eager to buy new hardware and convert to Windows...
Linux users that are using it THAT long will probably not EVER switch back to Windows (so of that handfull probably all will remain linux users).

And linux doesn't need users THAT much that they need oil them up.

Dominus wrote:

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux... That […]
Show full quote

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux...
That said, I highly doubt that those people that are actually using up to date linux with their old hardware are more than a handfull. If they are so eager to buy new hardware and convert to Windows...
Linux users that are using it THAT long will probably not EVER switch back to Windows (so of that handfull probably all will remain linux users).

And linux doesn't need users THAT much that they need oil them up.

Most of the current Linux builds still run with 486/Pentium systems so if those CPU's are still supported, there's no reason to drop all those old video cards which are probably what the users of those older systems are using. If they're going to drop those video cards based on their age alone, then they may as well drop support for every CPU prior to Pentium 4/Athlon XP while they're at it because what video cards do they think those people with Pentium/K5/K6/PII/Athlon/P-III systems will be using? There is no point in supporting those CPU's without support for the video cards that those systems can handle.

hey, i'm still targeting the voodoo crowd for my games, even if it's something advanced like Darkplaces i'm using 😜

sliderider wrote:

Dominus wrote:

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux... That […]
Show full quote

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux...
That said, I highly doubt that those people that are actually using up to date linux with their old hardware are more than a handfull. If they are so eager to buy new hardware and convert to Windows...
Linux users that are using it THAT long will probably not EVER switch back to Windows (so of that handfull probably all will remain linux users).

And linux doesn't need users THAT much that they need oil them up.

Most of the current Linux builds still run with 486/Pentium systems so if those CPU's are still supported, there's no reason to drop all those old video cards which are probably what the users of those older systems are using. If they're going to drop those video cards based on their age alone, then they may as well drop support for every CPU prior to Pentium 4/Athlon XP while they're at it because what video cards do they think those people with Pentium/K5/K6/PII/Athlon/P-III systems will be using? There is no point in supporting those CPU's without support for the video cards that those systems can handle.

How many of those users are commonly using Mesa3D currently?

They will still be able to use 2D and CLI just fine.

A CPU is not a video card. (Not counting the latest AMD/Intel CPUs 😉 ) I can't believe you are even comparing the two.

DosFreak wrote:

How many of those users are commonly using Mesa3D currently? […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

Dominus wrote:

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux... That […]
Show full quote

You missed my point. I highly doubt that those linux users with that old hardware are actually using an up to date linux...
That said, I highly doubt that those people that are actually using up to date linux with their old hardware are more than a handfull. If they are so eager to buy new hardware and convert to Windows...
Linux users that are using it THAT long will probably not EVER switch back to Windows (so of that handfull probably all will remain linux users).

And linux doesn't need users THAT much that they need oil them up.

Most of the current Linux builds still run with 486/Pentium systems so if those CPU's are still supported, there's no reason to drop all those old video cards which are probably what the users of those older systems are using. If they're going to drop those video cards based on their age alone, then they may as well drop support for every CPU prior to Pentium 4/Athlon XP while they're at it because what video cards do they think those people with Pentium/K5/K6/PII/Athlon/P-III systems will be using? There is no point in supporting those CPU's without support for the video cards that those systems can handle.

How many of those users are commonly using Mesa3D currently?

They will still be able to use 2D and CLI just fine.

A CPU is not a video card. (Not counting the latest AMD/Intel CPUs 😉 ) I can't believe you are even comparing the two.

How is it a bad comparison to make? If I am running Linux on a Pentium MMX system, am I using a modern video card? No, I'm not. I'm using an older PCI or AGP video card that is now going to be unsupported in future Linux releases. If my video card is now unsupported, then they may as well drop support for my CPU, too, because I won't be able to use future Linux releases without video card support even if future releases still support my CPU. Get it?

reread the article, maybe read some of the slashdot comments, too. Or just read what Dosfreak wrote...
Stating that Linux drops Voodoo support is just plain wrong. Mesa drops Voodoo support.

Dominus wrote:

reread the article, maybe read some of the slashdot comments, too. Or just read what Dosfreak wrote...
Stating that Linux drops Voodoo support is just plain wrong. Mesa drops Voodoo support.

And who maintains the 3D compatibility code?

Mesa does BUT (I could be wrong though) you can probably easily use an older Mesa (which still halfassely) with a newer Linux...

halfassed: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/3dfx?highligh … rdwareVendor%29 so the Voodoo support was not much to write home about before that 😀

sliderider wrote:

DosFreak wrote:

How many of those users are commonly using Mesa3D currently? […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

Most of the current Linux builds still run with 486/Pentium systems so if those CPU's are still supported, there's no reason to drop all those old video cards which are probably what the users of those older systems are using. If they're going to drop those video cards based on their age alone, then they may as well drop support for every CPU prior to Pentium 4/Athlon XP while they're at it because what video cards do they think those people with Pentium/K5/K6/PII/Athlon/P-III systems will be using? There is no point in supporting those CPU's without support for the video cards that those systems can handle.

How many of those users are commonly using Mesa3D currently?

They will still be able to use 2D and CLI just fine.

A CPU is not a video card. (Not counting the latest AMD/Intel CPUs 😉 ) I can't believe you are even comparing the two.

How is it a bad comparison to make? If I am running Linux on a Pentium MMX system, am I using a modern video card? No, I'm not. I'm using an older PCI or AGP video card that is now going to be unsupported in future Linux releases. If my video card is now unsupported, then they may as well drop support for my CPU, too, because I won't be able to use future Linux releases without video card support even if future releases still support my CPU. Get it?

Why are you running Linux on your Pentium MMX and what do you need 3D for? 🙄