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Reply 200 of 219, by Falcosoft

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-18, 07:06:

Anyone tried SetMul with a Duron on a SocketA system? I have an Abit KT7A and I'm thinking about downgrading my AthlonXP 1500+ to a Duron 700 in the hopes of getting more slowdown choices.

Currently, SetMul only allows me to disable the L1 cache on the AthlonXP which puts it at around 386 levels, and that's really awesome. However, I'd like something not quite as slow for mid-late 90s games like WarCraft 2 and Red Alert which have issues with overly fast screen scrolling.

Is it possible for SetMul to change the multiplier on the Duron and make it run at something like 200 MHz? For reference, the multiplier settings in my BIOS only go down to 5x.

1. There is no point in replacing your Athlon to Duron for more slowdown choices. Every SocketA desktop CPU has the same minimum multiplier(5x) and cache disabling option with your board . Only L1 cache disabling is possible (which also means disabled L2 cache) so a Duron and an Athlon with disabled L1 cache have the exact same speed. Even with caches enabled the difference is minimal at the possible minimum 500 MHz (5x100).

2. Setmul can only set K7 multipliers in real time with mobile K7 CPU (Athlon XP-M). You can make a desktop CPU a mobile one by modifying some bridges:
http://fab51.com/cpu/barton/athlon-e24.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170912115837/ht … tiplier_FAQ.htm
The above modifications can work with your Athlon XP but definitely not with your Duron 700. The processor must have some MSR registers for this to work and only Morgan+ Durons have them. Your Duron 700 is a Spitfire without PowerNow! MSR registers.
But unfortunately on KT7-A it's not enough since it's a desktop and not a mobile board. You also have to manually tune your chipset for Setmul to be able to set multipliers on the fly:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170822100906/ht … html/Tweaks.htm

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Reply 201 of 219, by Joseph_Joestar

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That's too bad, I was hoping for some K6 style granularity with the slowdown.

Ah well, the Duron cost me only 5 EUR, so no big loss.

Build #1: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 / YMF744 / SC-155
Build #2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
Build #3: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 202 of 219, by SaxxonPike

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Thank you so much for this utility!

I just grabbed v1.24 to test with an Athlon XP-M 3000+. I have it installed in a KT133A board, the Soltek SL75-KAV. The processor works great and is stable in this board. Crystal can set the multiplier in Windows without issues all the way up to the processor's reported maximum, 16.5x. The startup multiplier and FSB frequency are configured via jumpers on the motherboard. Voltage is configured via a BIOS setting.

SetMul shows all the current settings correctly. Disabling or enabling the L1 cache with SetMul seems to work fine. However, when I attempt to use SetMul to change the multiplier to anything else, it hangs at "Setting K7 PowerNow..", regardless which drivers or TSRs I boot with.

Here's a captured screen from the machine:

k7hang.png
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Anything I should try, or additional info you will need to diagnose this one?

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Reply 203 of 219, by MKT_Gundam

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Past week , saved a VIA c3 700Mhz (100fsb and 1,6v -Saumel 2?).
At BIOS Menu (ASUS CUV4x), seems the multiplier is locked.
Any chances to change the multiplier at SetMul?

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 204 of 219, by kolderman

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MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 01:56:

Past week , saved a VIA c3 700Mhz (100fsb and 1,6v -Saumel 2?).
At BIOS Menu (ASUS CUV4x), seems the multiplier is locked.
Any chances to change the multiplier at SetMul?

100% chance. Why the C3 is so nice.

Reply 205 of 219, by MKT_Gundam

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kolderman wrote on 2020-07-29, 02:13:
MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 01:56:

Past week , saved a VIA c3 700Mhz (100fsb and 1,6v -Saumel 2?).
At BIOS Menu (ASUS CUV4x), seems the multiplier is locked.
Any chances to change the multiplier at SetMul?

100% chance. Why the C3 is so nice.

Yes. Its working!
Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz)
At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD.
Using freeDOS and no soundcards.

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 206 of 219, by kolderman

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MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:07:
Yes. Its working! Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz) At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD. Using freeDO […]
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kolderman wrote on 2020-07-29, 02:13:
MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 01:56:

Past week , saved a VIA c3 700Mhz (100fsb and 1,6v -Saumel 2?).
At BIOS Menu (ASUS CUV4x), seems the multiplier is locked.
Any chances to change the multiplier at SetMul?

100% chance. Why the C3 is so nice.

Yes. Its working!
Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz)
At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD.
Using freeDOS and no soundcards.

That sounds about right. I think my k6-3 got around 11 at slowest settings. The C3 will scale better over the 486-pentium range though.

Reply 207 of 219, by MKT_Gundam

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kolderman wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:37:
MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:07:
Yes. Its working! Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz) At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD. Using freeDO […]
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kolderman wrote on 2020-07-29, 02:13:

100% chance. Why the C3 is so nice.

Yes. Its working!
Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz)
At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD.
Using freeDOS and no soundcards.

That sounds about right. I think my k6-3 got around 11 at slowest settings. The C3 will scale better over the 486-pentium range though.

I waiting for my slotcket and put this or my Erza 800 on BX board.
My CUV4x has only 1 ISA slot. I want put another isa soundcard + arueal vortex2 or Sb live.

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 208 of 219, by kolderman

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MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:50:
kolderman wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:37:
MKT_Gundam wrote on 2020-07-29, 03:07:
Yes. Its working! Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz) At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD. Using freeDO […]
Show full quote

Yes. Its working!
Lowest setting for me 3x 66.6 (200mhz)
At speedtest i got 13,1 with L1/2 disabled , BPD and ICD.
Using freeDOS and no soundcards.

That sounds about right. I think my k6-3 got around 11 at slowest settings. The C3 will scale better over the 486-pentium range though.

I waiting for my slotcket and put this or my Erza 800 on BX board.
My CUV4x has only 1 ISA slot. I want put another isa soundcard + arueal vortex2 or Sb live.

The Live might have issues with the Via chipset on that board, the vortex2 will be fine though.

Reply 209 of 219, by bbuchholtz

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Hey Gerwin,

Thank you very much for this tool. It's been super useful!

I was wondering if there was a way to call setmul from config.sys? I'm looking for a way to change CPU registers, before the memory manager loads.

-Brian

Reply 210 of 219, by gerwin

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bbuchholtz wrote on 2020-11-22, 18:58:
Hey Gerwin, […]
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Hey Gerwin,

Thank you very much for this tool. It's been super useful!

I was wondering if there was a way to call setmul from config.sys? I'm looking for a way to change CPU registers, before the memory manager loads.

-Brian

Glad to hear that SetMul has been useful.
I don't know exactly what configuration you are thinking of. The way SetMul is compiled it is of course no DOS .sys driver, nor is it a real mode program. But if you want a real mode program to simply send certain bytes to certain CPU registers, is such a thing not already available?
Currently my mind is not really on making significant changes to SetMul.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 211 of 219, by bbuchholtz

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Hey Gerwin,

I'm having an issue with QEMM's DPMI. I am unable to disable CPU cache, while DPMI is active. However, I can safely change CPU multiplier.

I'm looking for a way to disable CPU cache, before the memory manager loads. A lot of folks use QEMM and DPMI. May be a worthwhile feature to add.

-Brian

Reply 212 of 219, by cyclone3d

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Hi Gerwin,
I am using a modified ASUS PVI-486AP4 motherboard with a Cyrix 5x86-120.

I am able to get down to a 4Mhz fsb on this board and depending on how I set the CPU to the 1x multiplier, Setmul shows either 1.2Mhz or 2.0Mhz for the CPU speed.

I am not 100% sure on the motherboard jumper method for getting to 1x multiplier because chkcpu shows a 1.9Mhz fsb and a multiplier of 2.

Even when not running at super slow speeds, the CPU Mhz is not detected properly.

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Reply 213 of 219, by gerwin

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bbuchholtz wrote on 2020-11-30, 18:29:

I'm looking for a way to disable CPU cache, before the memory manager loads. A lot of folks use QEMM and DPMI. May be a worthwhile feature to add.

I am sorry for the delay. I missed a reply notification.
Attached CACHEOFF.zip with source code. This is for L1 cache only. It is very simple.
Now this is not made as a DOS device driver, for use with the config.sys install= or device= options. Anyone have any idea how to turn it into one?

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-12-23, 08:15:

Even when not running at super slow speeds, the CPU Mhz is not detected properly.

I am more interested in what it shows exactly, at more common CPU speeds.

For CPUs that do not support timestamp-counter, SetMul reverts to a XOR chaining benchmark, as suggested here:
https://wiki.osdev.org/Detecting_CPU_Speed
It worked well with a multitude of socket 3 processors, but I used just two motherboards for testing the calibration (XOR to MHz).

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--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 214 of 219, by Falcosoft

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gerwin wrote on 2021-01-08, 00:25:

...Now this is not made as a DOS device driver, for use with the config.sys install= or device= options. Anyone have any idea how to turn it into one?

I have compiled a DOS device driver that can be run from CONFIG.SYS to disable cache.

DEVICE=C:\...\CACHEOFF.SYS 
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Reply 217 of 219, by gerwin

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Bumrusher89 wrote on 2021-02-28, 10:28:

I have a question for the L1DX parameter. What do you mean by “exclusively”?

The normal "L1D" method disables L1 cache, but as a side effect the L2 cache is also non-functional. Some processors have a special command that can disable L1 cache whilst leaving L2 cache functional: L1DX.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 218 of 219, by Lazer42

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I'm a new user of this very nice utility and I have a few questions I have been unable to get a good answer on by searching around the internet.

I am running a K6-2+. Do I understand correctly that this CPU has an L1 and an L2 cache on-die, meaning that the motherboard cache functions as an L3?

If so, what does this mean for enabling or disabling these caches via different methods?

If I use the L1D switch, will it disable the L1 and L2 on-die caches and leave the L3 cache active?

If I use L1DX would I then have no L1 cache but an active L2 cache and also an active L3 motherboard cache?

If I disable the external cache in the BIOS, does this then disable only the L3 cache and leave the L2 and L1 to be controlled by Setmul?

Or, do I have this all wrong and confused?

Reply 219 of 219, by gerwin

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Lazer42 wrote on 2021-04-29, 15:48:

I am running a K6-2+. Do I understand correctly that this CPU has an L1 and an L2 cache on-die, meaning that the motherboard cache functions as an L3?

Yes. L2 cache is on the K6-III / K6-III-P / K6-2+ / K6-III+. Next in line is the motherboard cache.

Lazer42 wrote on 2021-04-29, 15:48:

If so, what does this mean for enabling or disabling these caches via different methods?
If I use the L1D switch, will it disable the L1 and L2 on-die caches and leave the L3 cache active?
If I use L1DX would I then have no L1 cache but an active L2 cache and also an active L3 motherboard cache?

Fortunately I wrote about this earlier in this topic, on page 1, at 11-3-2014. It also has an image there, which may help illustrate things.
"When you use an AMD K6 with on-Die L2 cache, the motherboard external cache changes from L2 to L3. I found that when I disable the L1 cache, the L2 seems to become non-functional too. Giving me 20,87 points in Speedsys at 2.0x60=120MHz. This is with the L3 cache still working."
Then later the L1DX method was implemented in SetMul and it prevents this part from happening: "L2 seems to become non-functional too".

Lazer42 wrote on 2021-04-29, 15:48:

If I disable the external cache in the BIOS, does this then disable only the L3 cache and leave the L2 and L1 to be controlled by Setmul?

Yes, the external cache being external of the CPU.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul