Falcosoft wrote:

Hi, I'm the developer of Soundfont Midi Player (including mod2midi converter http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html). I have noticed […]
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Hi,
I'm the developer of Soundfont Midi Player (including mod2midi converter http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html).
I have noticed that there are many experienced users on this forum so I ask my questions here.

in GM specification (https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/tabl … lusive-messages) there is a sysex message for controlling Master Balance(F0 7F 7F 04 02 xx yy F7).
Midiplayer uses this sysex if you choose the option 'use sysex for Volume/Balance'.
But I have noticed that SC-VA and the synths I have met so far do not support this message.
1. Are there any soft synths/HW devices that actually do support GM Master Balance?
I have experimented with GS Master Pan (F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 06 xx 3A F7) and SC-VA support this sysex.
(But it's GS only and other GS implementations e.g. MS GM/GS softsynth does not support this either).
2. Are there any equivalent Master Balance/Pan sysex message in XG ?
I have tried to find one but no trace of Master Balance in XG specification.

So actually I would like to find an universal way to control Master Balance the same way Master Volume can be controlled.
(It's not problematic if the program has to send more than one kind of message since unknown messages are ignored by synths anyway)

Thanks in advance:
Zoltan Bacsko
Falcosoft

Welcome Zoltan.

Strange, SC-VA and S-YXG50 both ignore the GM Balance sysex command.
If I would have to guess, the panning is much more common on the output audio side therefor disregarded as "un-needed" at the input midi side.

Site where you can find full specs of various midi formats: http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/docs_specs.htm
Here is the official Yamaha XG spec (v2.0): http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/pdf/XGspec2-00e.pdf (page 27 for sysex commands).
Not a trace of Master Balance/Pan NONE.

May I add that I don't use your Soundfont Midi Player because it doesn't have a Stop button (the stop button is the pause button)...
It also has a bug when I start playing a file several times by clicking it rapidly the player does not change instruments but starts playing with all instruments as Piano (after GS reset).
It will skip the patch parameters like Reverb, Pan, Level, etc and start to play...
To fix this bug I have to move the playback slider a tiny bit back (rewind).

@James-F
Thanks for your fast reply. I have the official docs but they could not help.
I think I will add GS Master Pan since it works with some synths at least (e.g SC-VA).

It also has a bug when I start playing a file several times by clicking it rapidly the player does not change instruments but starts playing with all instruments as Piano (after GS reset).
It will skip the patch parameters like Reverb, Pan, Level, etc and start to play...

Unfortunately I cannot reproduce your issue. Does it occur with specific midi files or with all of them ? Moreover if you try a different output (e.g bassmidi mode) the buggy behavior still remains ?

I have uploaded a test video ( tested with version 3.4.2 32bit). What is the difference on your side ?
https://youtu.be/As1ZbQMPz-c

@James-F
I have added ordinary Stop button functionality. Earlier Play button works as Play/Pause.
GS Master Pan is also added. 'Use sysex for Volume/Balance' in settings dialog has to be selected first.
This way both volume and pan works perfectly with SC-VA (it can be seen if you press the topmost 'ALL' button on SC-VA interface).
Test version: http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_35_test.zip

Here is a video of the bug:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5f55mt4z322rl2/Fal … layer.webm?dl=0

The bug occurs with these Warcraft 2 midi files:
http://www.mirsoft.info/gmb/music_info.php?id_file=MjYxNQ==

The bug does not occur in Bassmidi mode, only in software midi loop and real midi loop.
The bug also does not occur when using the new Stop button and clicking Play.
It occurs when the player move to the next song (Autopplay), clicking the file, or clicking the Next Song button.
BTW, I use LoopMidi to rout to SC-VA.
Using LoopBe1 it immediately detects a feedback loop with your player making it unusable, not so with other players.

Thanks for the stop button, the GS Master Pan also works.
I'll move to your player right after you fix this small bug and the feedback loop bug.

EDIT:
I analyzed you player with MidiOX and found the problem.
When I stop playing your player sends a HUGE list of every single note to Note Off, Sound Off.
If this huge list isn't finished loading and I start playing the song again there is unwanted interaction.
Other player (vanBasco) sends a short list of Channel 1-16 Notes Off, 1-16 Sounds Off, and a Reset command, NOT every single note on the keyboard.

If I use a real cable midi loop with my audio interface, your player is much MUCH slower and sometimes crashes, because with real midi there is a hardware buffer that sends the command one by one,
and it is very slow, may I remind you that Midi is OLD and SLOW. 😀
When stopping a song I have to wait 2 seconds for this long all notes Off list to go through the real midi loop.
Again (to emphasize), real midi loop is SLOW compared to a software loop, you can't send a million commands and expect snappy behavior.

I suggest taking the vanBasco approach and using Note Off and Sound Off per channel, not per note, for the sake of real midi users, and to fix this bug.
Also, sending a Reset sysex command after Stopping is important, which your player doesn't do.
vanBasco sends 1-16 Notes Off, 1-16 Sounds Off, and sysex Reset, when I click Play or Stop (right before playing a song and after stopping it).
Just copy that behavior for best results.

Split.

Thanks Stiletto, it's Falcosoft not Falcomsoft BTW, my mistake. 😊
Can you please change the name of the thread to Falcosoft.

Yeah I was dissapointed to realize this thread has nothing to do with Nihon Falcom 🙁

Fixed.

Thanks for creating this topic.
@James-F:
I have tried to reproduce your exact environment but it have not triggered the bug on my system:
https://youtu.be/V8pMHUjFWXc
Windows 7 64 bit
SC-VA 1.03
Loopmidi 1.0.13
Warcraft 2: Game rip

I'm very curious what can be the difference. I suspect that is outside of MidiPlayer since the Midiplayer's interface shows the proper settings but the sent messages could not reach SC-VA in your case.
Anyway I have made a few modifications blindly that can affect the behavior on your system. It can be downloaded from the previous location:
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_35_test.zip

If it could not fix your issue please, help me to find the root of the problem.
1. Please check that other normal midi output devices (e.g. MS GM/GS Softsynth) are also affected or the problem is SC-VA/loopmidi specific.
2. Please check what is happening if you choose 'No Sysex' reset type instead of GS.

Thanks in advance.

Yes it fixed the instruments bug.
BUT, I still see some abnormal behavior.
You have Midi-OX right?

Using the latest test build:
1. When clicking Play the player will send the instrument patch list TWICE.
2. When clicking Stop the player will send 1-16 Pitch Bend, All Notes Off, All Sounds Off, TWICE.
3. When clicking Pause it'll send the All Off list once, as it should.

The old version sends the All Off to channels 1-16 list 16 times!
This new one only 2 times, still one more than needed.

Also when clicking Play it will not send a sysex Reset command, only when double-clicking the file.
Looks like you have a mix of Play/Pause behavior that you didn't fix when adding the Stop button.
When clicking Stop from a paused or stopped state it will send the All Off list once, as it should.
But when clicking Stop when playing it will sent the All Off list Twice.

LoopBe1 still reports a feedback loop and mutes the midi connection, probably because the double sending of the same commands.

To clarify things a bit:

1. Clicking Play and double-clicking (from a Stopped state) the file should behave the same (they are not in this test build).
a. Send a sysex Reset.
b. Load instruments , ONCE.
c. Play notes.

2. Pausing the music should only send the 1-16 All Off list once.
Resuming playback should just continue playing notes.
Everything works correct here.

3. Stopping.
Should send the 1-16 All Off list ONCE, and a sysex Reset Command.

Hi,
OK, I will look after it.
The old version has not sent the reset messages fixed 16 times but since type 1 midi parsers have to be track based (I think track is not the most clever concept in midi) it has sent number of tracks * used channels count messages.
But it is obviously unnecessary since channels are track independent.
I think LoopBE is hopeless. I can even trigger a feedback error manually by using the virtual piano... Its threshold is ridiculously low.
https://youtu.be/cRksHMMbRX8

1. Clicking Play and double-clicking (from a Stopped state) the file should behave the same (they are not in this test build).

These 2 actions are not exactly the same. Double clicking involves midi data (file) reloading, but clicking play (in any positions including start) is not, since the file is already loaded.

I agree about LoopBe, too sensitive, LoopMIDI let the user set its feedback loop time.
But if you already send All Off to all 16 channels why do you multiply it by the number of used tracks? This is completely unnecessary, once for all 16 channels is enough (saying the same as you are).

These 2 actions are not exactly the same. Double clicking involves midi data (file) reloading, but clicking play (in any positions including start) is not, since the file is already loaded.

Ah okay.
It still sends the Patch list twice when I click Play from a Stopped state.
It also sends the All Off list twice when I click Stop from a playing state.

BTW: I want to say that the Master Volume sysex is very useful, thank you for that.

Hi,
As I have written yes, you are right it is unnecessary. But if you look at type 1 midi file spec, all parts are built on tracks. So my parser parsed the tracks sequentially and recorded the used channels. (You have no information in midi 1 files on track independent used channels). In the new version only note off messages uses this scheme and All Sound Off/All Note Off controller messages are sent once (twice 😀 ) to all 16 channels whether they are used or not. It's still more simple and economical.
I will investigate the duplication cases.

Thanks!
Looking forward for the best Midi Player experience.

If it's not too cumbersome, can you please add a Reset sysex when clicking Stop.
Unless there is a reason not to...

No problem, reset on stop, got it 😀 It will be the same reset type you set in the right click context menu of Reset button. So 'No Sysex' will not send Sysex, just controller messages.

Exactly, Thank You!
BTW, the file Orc3gm.mid is not 25 minutes long, it plays a long silence in Falcosoft player; It should be 2:20 as reported by other players.

Well, the length of Orc3gm.mid is debatable 😀. Actually there is a legitimate event at 25.22.76, but of course Midiplayer's calculation method should be corrected by convention.

Just for the fun GNMidi agrees that Orc3gm.mid is 25 minutes long.

BTW I have added Reset on stop and modified length calculation (skips end of track meta events).
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_35_test.zip

Bye