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Windows 11 has been released

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Reply 160 of 212, by The Serpent Rider

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Vista, however…

Surely we didn't had rough Windows 2000 start, preSP1 sad state of Windows XP or complaints that XP is a resource hog.

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Reply 161 of 212, by Jo22

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-11, 05:43:

Vista, however…

Surely we didn't had rough Windows 2000 start, preSP1 sad state of Windows XP or complaints that XP is a resource hog.

I remember that time. These Sasser/Blaster worms infected early XP within a couple of minutes.
SP1 brought in a rudimentary firewall, but it was SP2 which got "the real thing".

But that reminds me of Windows 98, too.
There was some sort of rivalry between 98 and XP users.
The Win98 fellows argued that 98 was much quicker and provided more FPS on same hardware than XP.

Personally, though, I wasn't part of such communities I think.
I just noticed that XP had huge memory requirements (HDD/RAM).
Otherwise, XP ran very well for me with SP0/SP1 only (offline use).

I can't describe the feeling of using a real OS first time.
It was as if a big burden was liftet from you.
Instantly, all of my old programs worked correctly, better than before. Quirks and glitches were gone.
No more jerky, "sticky" behavior of applications.
Sure,some things were slower than under Win98. But they were slow in a smooth fashion.
That's why I still love XP, I guess. It was such a stress reliefer at the time.
That being said, I still kind of like Win98SE, too. It wasn't bad, just disabled.

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Reply 162 of 212, by dr_st

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twiz11 wrote on 2021-10-10, 22:26:

Yea easy for you to say, I have been on windows as most of my games are being held hostage by nvidia, and other companies who only do windows releases

Then stay on Windows. Despite all the whining that always goes on in threads like this, it's not like there are any actual problems with Win10 or Win11.

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Reply 163 of 212, by Bruninho

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I’d rather recommend him to stay on Windows 10 or 7 if he is really serious about gaming.

Windows 11 is not “ready” for that. I’d just do as other folks here said, wait till 2025 for 11. There is no real good reason to upgrade. It’s essentially a 10 with a small paint pretending to be a new GUI.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
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Reply 164 of 212, by Anders-

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-10-11, 05:32:
Anders- wrote on 2021-10-11, 01:15:

No, because then you still support (pay & keep using ) the setup which locked you down in the first place. What you want is moving to platform independent applications.

That's me in my teenage years.

Now I used whatever OS and tool gets the job done.

Fair enough, each to their own.

Måttfull och balanserad.

Reply 165 of 212, by Errius

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-11, 08:45:
But that reminds me of Windows 98, too. There was some sort of rivalry between 98 and XP users. The Win98 fellows argued that 98 […]
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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-11, 05:43:

Vista, however…

But that reminds me of Windows 98, too.
There was some sort of rivalry between 98 and XP users.
The Win98 fellows argued that 98 was much quicker and provided more FPS on same hardware than XP.

I remember delaying the switch from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 because of concerns over game compatibility. XP however introduced new compatibility options which mostly fixed this issue.

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Reply 166 of 212, by Bruninho

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https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microso … menu-heres-how/

Don't need to thank me for that.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
List of ALL Android vulnerabilities
Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 167 of 212, by Cosmic

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Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-12, 02:16:

I think it's great the Windows 10 start menu is called "Classic" in the registry key, "Start_ShowClassicMode". 😂

It's too bad it's not just a checkbox somewhere, kinda like how XP exposed both the new two-column Start Menu and the old single column menu under a simple right-click Taskbar > Properties. That would have been a nice way to show some care about user preferences, but I'll take a regedit over no choice at all.

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Reply 168 of 212, by Bruninho

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I just think that Microsoft needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time and stick to what really works and has been working wonders for decades.

They could just remove with the legacy stuff and start from scratch. They have the tools for that. Just go back to the basics, waaaay back, from Windows 2000 Professional and move up from there, picking up the best bits of subsequent Windows versions until 10. What works, pick it. What doesn't, forget it. Then pick what has worked so well and rebuild it from the ground with the new tech at their disposal for better performance.

Since Windows 8, they've been incapable of keeping a consistent UI/UX for their users. How can Ubuntu and Apple be able to provide a consistent UI evolution but not Microsoft?

Things like this one about the Start Menu is unbelievable for me. Every Windows iteration they try a completely new menu. Why change what is not broken? Why?? Why change what is working well? Classic Windows Start Menu has served us so well for decades. If there is a demand for hacks like StartIsBack and ClassicShell, then there is your proof that they shouldn't have messed it up in first place.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
List of ALL Android vulnerabilities
Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 169 of 212, by soggi

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Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-12, 03:19:
I just think that Microsoft needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time and stick to what really works and has been […]
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I just think that Microsoft needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time and stick to what really works and has been working wonders for decades.

They could just remove with the legacy stuff and start from scratch. They have the tools for that. Just go back to the basics, waaaay back, from Windows 2000 Professional and move up from there, picking up the best bits of subsequent Windows versions until 10. What works, pick it. What doesn't, forget it. Then pick what has worked so well and rebuild it from the ground with the new tech at their disposal for better performance.

Since Windows 8, they've been incapable of keeping a consistent UI/UX for their users. How can Ubuntu and Apple be able to provide a consistent UI evolution but not Microsoft?

Things like this one about the Start Menu is unbelievable for me. Every Windows iteration they try a completely new menu. Why change what is not broken? Why?? Why change what is working well? Classic Windows Start Menu has served us so well for decades. If there is a demand for hacks like StartIsBack and ClassicShell, then there is your proof that they shouldn't have messed it up in first place.

From your lips to God's ears!

It's like the management says "OK we invented the wheel, this perfect wheel, that was great...but that was ten years ago and it's old, we need another wheel, the main thing is that it is new! Let's try an octagonal wheel regardless of whether it works or not!" Idiotism...

This GUI hiccup is one big reason why I didn't move on from Windows XP (classic GUI and start menu, not Luna) to any later Windows. Tried Windows 7 several times and actually just have it on one PC...Windows 7 is terrible already (despite of ClassicShell), everything later is unworthy of discussion. The same you can see with browsers...Firefox once was a great browser, but for years they make the same GUI + featureritis mistakes. What's wrong with them?

If there was a current Windows with best GUI elements from Win98SE / Win2k / WinXP (classic) based on today's technology - yes I would buy it!

kind regards
soggi

Last edited by soggi on 2021-10-12, 04:17. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 170 of 212, by Cosmic

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Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-12, 03:19:

I just think that Microsoft needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time and stick to what really works and has been working wonders for decades.

I agree. I feel with every version of Windows I've been able to shape and mold it to my preference over time, and I'm sure 11 will be no different once some updates and 3rd party tools become available. 10 has been out for years and I finally consider it comfortable after being an adoring 7 fan. But indeed... Mac OS users have been enjoying the relatively same UI for a decade (see below, Cheetah vs Monterey). Microsoft absolutely could have added settings to keep past UI options available. There's an entire strata of UI one can dig through all the way back to 95, or even DOS, kept there for backwards compatibility for professional applications and workflows. I just wish the everyday power user would also be a consideration.

Here's a great article on the "layers" subject:

https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/sta … -in-windows-10/

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Reply 172 of 212, by Jo22

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Mac OS, macOS or System has a long tradition of consistency.
When it comes to the Finder, at least. :)

Strictly speaking, it looked that way before System, even.
The Apple Lisa OS was looking similar to System.
And AppleWorks* (System for Lisa/Macintosh XL) looked similar, too.
*Edit: Correction, MacWorks XL

But what annoyes me the most is that snobby attitude of UX/UI designers of today.
They always pretend how good they are in their fields and how ingenious nowadays designs are.
Despite, every layman can see that they're incompetent in reality.
Also, I bet, if they time traveled to the past,
they would have been sent to moon by their previous colleagues from the 1970s/1980s for creating such a mess.

A design that has no contrast, no edges and no standardized interface or "logic" is murks.
The primary purpose of a design is to make users operate things without a hassle and make the interface look eye friendly.
People with disabilities should also be included, of course, but they could also get an alternative design they can choose.

Remember, the eye candy thing is one thing and surely not entirely wrong,
but the best tool or program is the one is which does not focus on itself, but serves the user.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 173 of 212, by matze79

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Installed it..
they really stole Start Menu from KDE Plasma.. haha no own Ideas.
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Reply 175 of 212, by Bruninho

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-12, 09:14:

The primary purpose of a design is to make users operate things without a hassle and make the interface look eye friendly.

I agree. Check the quote on my signature 🤷🏻‍♂️

I am an UI/UX designer and often I get requests like: “make it like Apples website” or “make it like Netflix website” or “ohhh I want that effect from this bank hotsite for my ecommerce education website” 🙄 without even thinking about usability in first place for their users.

I always try to get it minimalist and straight to the point first, building its functions. Function should come first before Form, always. Form is a consequence of how you build them. But no, clients want the form first, a beautiful design without any function thar could propose their services to their clients. Fail. Fail. Fail… and I always have to explain it to them.

Apple post-Jobs has this problem too. I personally think that Jony Ive is an idiot. Jobs had him under control, but Ive without Jobs is a complete mess, he f* it up with some iOS changes when they fired Forstall after the Maps fiasco (not that I did like the Skeuomorphic design, I hated it actually). iOS 7 was horrible, but improved dramatically over the years.

Not to mention some design choices he made, like the cheese crater mac pro and the trash can mac. He had the chance to make a better version of the G4 Cube this time and ruined it up.

I like the changes in Big Sur, but Safari 15 new tabs is another show of inconsistency post-Jobs. Finder tabs and Safari tabs aren’t even the same. Finder will probably get a makeup after Monterey release.

At least, Apple is better at trying to make it generally consistent and well documented on their website than Microsoft does.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
List of ALL Android vulnerabilities
Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 177 of 212, by soggi

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Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-12, 18:20:

iOS 7 was horrible, but improved dramatically over the years.

Huh!? Started with iOS 4.x.x and found that iOS7 was the best since sliced bread. All later iOS versions are based on this GUI and it was such an improvement over all versions released before.

Just one example:
With iOS6 (and earlier) an app was needed for the flashlight function - really annoying.

kind regards
soggi

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Reply 178 of 212, by Bruninho

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What I was saying is that iOS 7 - the first iteration of the new GUI - was horrible but it did improve a lot through all later versions. I think that the current version is as good as it can be nowadays. I actually like iOS more now.

I was never a fan of the skeuomorphic design, it served its purpose at that time, but keeping it around for longer was not practical. By 2012 users already knew how to work with iOS, so using skeuomorphism to make users identify what the things are and for what purpose they are was not relevant anymore.

Skeuomorphism wasn't a new thing, it actually existed in 1990's PC software for Windows, I remember one note book app that used something similar to a binder (we say "Fichário" in brazilian portuguese) but I can't recall the name.

Just to keep on topic, @Cosmic posted above a link with an article about the several layers of old, legacy Windows that are still buried inside, showing how inconsistent the Windows UI currently is. Hence why I think that Microsoft missed the opportunity to pull the plug on legacy stuff to build a more consistent UI experience from zero, and create a really brand new Windows OS. I find it really sad. Who is in charge of the Windows design? The so-called new "Fluent Design" I've been reading about - and thinking it was really nice, but they didn't implement it well this time?

Windows 10 was released around 2015. What were they doing in six years to bring us a Windows 10.1 using a new skin and slap a Windows 11 branding on it?

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
List of ALL Android vulnerabilities
Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 179 of 212, by 65C02

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For those of you who've already promised family, friends, coworkers, etc that you'd install it on their unsupported PCs, check this out:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rufus-creat … ows-11-installs

If it works as advertised, this will be a real time saver.