Seeing you have PCI I would be on the lookout for a PCI storage controller. This solves all the LBA and ATAPI issues. Something from promise should do the trick.

With CF cards you can use puppy linux is has a utility that allows you to set CF storage flags like removable and so on. Compare the flags of your Kingston and Sandisk to see if there are differences.

I always fdisk and format my CF cards manually with a DOS 6.22 bootdisk for FAT. Works very well.

Before MSCDEX you need to load some device driver from config.sys - you can use any "generic" driver for ATAPI CD-ROMs (Mitsumi, Oak, ...). You can get this one as it has the smallest memory footprint (5kb) - VIDE-CDD.ZIP

I have an ISA ATA controller from 1993 that loads CD-ROM just fine.

For those that have problems with SANDISK cards.... make sure they are legit as there is know to be many fakes floating around. I have tested 8GB CF Sandisk Ultra II with all my retro computers and there where no problems whatsoever (from 286 to P-233MMX) and it is just incredible how old computers "fly" with these cards.

PS:
If someone needs to boot from CDROM or USB device but BIOS doesn't have the necessary support. Use this boot manager from floppy and select the proper boot device:
http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/full.html

😎

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Seeing you have PCI I would be on the lookout for a PCI storage controller. This solves all the LBA and ATAPI issues. Something from promise should do the trick.

With CF cards you can use puppy linux is has a utility that allows you to set CF storage flags like removable and so on. Compare the flags of your Kingston and Sandisk to see if there are differences.

I always fdisk and format my CF cards manually with a DOS 6.22 bootdisk for FAT. Works very well.

I guess I could just get a PCI IDE controller, but it feels redundant as that's exactly what's built into the motherboard. Not sure why it shouldn't support ATAPI when it's new enough to support LBA and all PIO modes. But perhaps it's the best solution.
I totally agree on manually using fdisk to set up drives. That's what I've done with both my cards. They both have MS-DOS 6.22 installed on them, but only the Kingston one actually will boot. If I boot from a DOS bootdisk, I can access the Sandisk one just fine.

kixs wrote:

Before MSCDEX you need to load some device driver from config.sys - you can use any "generic" driver for ATAPI CD-ROMs (Mitsumi, […]
Show full quote

Before MSCDEX you need to load some device driver from config.sys - you can use any "generic" driver for ATAPI CD-ROMs (Mitsumi, Oak, ...). You can get this one as it has the smallest memory footprint (5kb) - VIDE-CDD.ZIP

I have an ISA ATA controller from 1993 that loads CD-ROM just fine.

For those that have problems with SANDISK cards.... make sure they are legit as there is know to be many fakes floating around. I have tested 8GB CF Sandisk Ultra II with all my retro computers and there where no problems whatsoever (from 286 to P-233MMX) and it is just incredible how old computers "fly" with these cards.

PS:
If someone needs to boot from CDROM or USB device but BIOS doesn't have the necessary support. Use this boot manager from floppy and select the proper boot device:
http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/full.html

😎

Cheers, that cd-rom driver did the trick, regardless of the fact that the BIOS reports "Primary slave: None".

Thank you very much. I'm now going to install The 7th Guest I think. And perhaps Kyrandia 2 - The Hand of Fate 😁

Thanks to everybody who have contributed to this thread so far.

I haven't seen a machine earlier than a Pentium that detects a CD ROM at the bios level. The driver will still find it.

I’ve just finished messing round with CF cards for the first time. From what I found the CF card has to be in “fixed disk” mode if you want to boot into dos. Unfortunately a lot of the newer cards are set to removable disk and don’t let you change this. It’s only a problem if you want to boot from it. They will work fine in either mode if just being used as a storage disk.
And yeh the CD drive not showing up in bios is perfectly normal, bios doesn't care less about the drive, that's the drivers job.

LunarG wrote:

If the BIOS, or rather, the IDE controller, doesn't detect that there is a device connected, how would DOS be able to access the device. It's just like when the BIOS doesn't detect the CF-IDE adapter, the system can't boot from it and DOS doesn't see that it's there.

CD-ROM drives need a driver installed under DOS to work. The driver talks directly to the CD-ROM drive through the IDE controller's hardware interrupt and I/O port, it doesn't use a BIOS interrupt, and so works whether or not the BIOS knows the drive is there.

Conversely, starting the OS is something the BIOS itself facilitates, so to be able to boot from a drive, the BIOS needs to know it's present.

I'm fully aware that DOS require drivers for any device you want to use. I guess I've just gotten so used over the years to the BIOS also having to detect the presence of the devices as well. Like, if a more modern pc (and by more modern, I mean post-socket7 or so) doesn't report a device during boot, it's a sure sign of some form of issue with the connection and any attempts to load drivers will just report that there is no device present. I'd simply forgotten that this isn't the case on a 486. Not actually tinkered with one since about 1997 or so.

LunarG wrote:

I'm fully aware that DOS require drivers for any device you want to use.

No need to be defensive, I was attempting to explain why it works the way it does.

The opening sentence wasn't there to teach you about DOS, it was just a preface to the rest of the post. I never doubted you knew you'd need a driver. 😀

I guess it's a case of typing never coming across the same way as speech. Just saying that through years of getting used to something working a specific way, you grow so used to it that you forget that it used to be different. No offence intended. 😀

Anyone had issues with Speedsys reporting incorrect clock speed for a CPU? I've been trying different jumper config for the turbo header (at the lack of a proper turbo button, need to buy a suitable button and mount it in a 5.25" drive bay cover), and I can't seem to get Speedsys to report anything other than 15MHz or 34MHz. At the supposed 34MHz I get a score of 40.08 (will post screenshot later) and I did a timedemo in doom, with a score translating to something like 62fps, so it would seem that the CPU is actually running at its full speed. Just curious if it's common that Speedsys reports incorrect clock speeds.

badmojo wrote:

I haven't seen a machine earlier than a Pentium that detects a CD ROM at the bios level. The driver will still find it.

I'm able to boot from a boot-able CD ROM on my 486 but only due to the fact I'm using SCSI.

But yeah I don't know of any pre-pentium machine that will detect your CD ROM at bios level either.

rgart wrote:

badmojo wrote:

I haven't seen a machine earlier than a Pentium that detects a CD ROM at the bios level. The driver will still find it.

I'm able to boot from a boot-able CD ROM on my 486 but only due to the fact I'm using SCSI.

But yeah I don't know of any pre-pentium machine that will detect your CD ROM at bios level either.

I've been thinking about SCSI, but I haven't made up my mind yet. To me, noise is an issue, so for that reason CF cards seem much better than SCSI drives. SCSI does have the "cool" factor though.

Here's a closeup of the inside of the system. I've not done anything about cable management yet, as I still need to make a front bezel with turbo switch, MHz LED's and so on.
The CPU hsf is a cheap chipset cooler, which is attached using a thermally conductive sticky pad. Probably not a perfect solution, but I can't imagine it not being able to keep a 486 cool.
Those two open expansion slots at the back have now been closed up.

Overview of the whole insides, with, as you can no doubt see, the CF-IDE adapter hanging from the flat cable only. I'm going to convert a front bezel to allow for swapping CF cards without opening the case, and attach the adapter to that. I want to have one CF card for DOS and one for OS/2 Warp 3 (assuming I can find my CD and it's still working), to avoid needing to worry about dual boot. On this picture I'm using an LCD screen, but I've got a CRT monitor I'm going to use, as soon as I can rearrange my desk to give the 486 a more permanent home.

The current specs of the system is:

Spring Circle "P2C" Motherboard with SiS496/497 chipset, 256kB cache.
It's ST486 DX4 100MHz (Cyrix Cx486DX4).
2 x 32MB IBM FastPageMode 72pin RAM.
Kingston 4GB CompactFlash card with Hexin CF-IDE adapter.
Matrox Millennium 2MB.
Gravis Ultrasound "Classic" rev. 2.4, 1MB.
Sony 3.5" 1.44MB floppy drive.
Samsung 48x CD-ROM drive.
Cooler Master Elite 310 ATX Midi-tower with 145W AT PSU.

I also have a Trident 9440 1MB graphics card just in case the Matrox doesn't turn out to be much good for DOS gaming, as well as a D-Link DE-220P 10Mbit network adapter. Unfortunately this is a PnP card that tries to use IRQ5, which causes conflicts with the GUS's dos emulation and with the soon to arrive SB 16. I'm trying to find a way to use a different IRQ for this card, but I've had no luck so far. Anyone got any experience with this network adapter? Would it be better to just get a 3Com Etherlink III ?

Future upgrades:

Sound Blaster 16 (CT2230) for better games compatibility.
Faster CF card, seeing as my fast Sandisk card won't boot.
Extra CF-IDE adapter for a second drive (for file storage and moving files to main system).
Possible SCSI.
AT case, preferably mini-tower (2 x 5.25" + 2 x 3.5").
Cache upgrade to 512kB.

Thanks to everybody on Vogons who have inspired me to start this build, and to those who have contributed to getting it up and running.

5u3 wrote:

LunarG wrote:

Neither gets picked up by the BIOS. Any chance the CD-ROM interfaces on my GUS conflicting with my BIOS's ability to detect ATAPI devices? If not, does anyone have any experience with CD-ROM detection problems on SiS496/497 chipset motherboards?

Most probably the BIOS does not detect ATAPI devices at all. ATAPI support was not a common feature on 486 boards.

Zida Tomato 4DPS BIOS version 1.72f will detect ATAPI CD-ROM devices before POSTing. This is the only 486 BIOS I've seen to detect ATAPI via the BIOS.

I got my SB16 (CT2230) today. Drivers were installed successfully, but I can't seem to get sound effects from it. FM works just fine, but it just doesn't want to produce any sound effects. Anyone got any experience with multiple sound cards in DOS 6.22 ? Set Blaster from GUS have been REM'ed and SB16 installation added new one for the SB16. There shouldn't be any I/O, DMA or IRQ conflicts, and GUS works just fine.

Love your heatsink 😁

@LunarG
Weird problem with that SB16... You should not have any issue if you have this card:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-multi … ml#.Uh_dzX9Mflc

I suggest

1.
- Setting the jumpers for I/O base to 220h by closing IOS0 and IOS1
- close RPSK
- also close pins 2 and 3 on the test connector block (labelled AUDIO)

2.
check autoexec.bat again for the correct SB16 lines,
preferred SB environment values are A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6

3.
run diagnose.exe
run mixerset.exe

Which method did you use to attach the heatsink to the cpu?

rgart wrote:

Which method did you use to attach the heatsink to the cpu?

The heatsink came with a heat conductive sticky-pad. It's the thinnest sticky-pad I've seen so far, and it seems to conduct heat well enough for a 486. The heatsink cost something like £3 on Amazon, and I got free delivery, so it was cheaper than buying a clip-on 486 heatsink from ebay. I've tried putting my finger along the edge of the CPU that isn't really covered by the heatsink, and it never even feels warm. The heatsink seems to stay around room temperature. Then again, it's about 5 times the size of a classic heatsink for these CPU's, so I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

Jolaes76 wrote:

@LunarG Weird problem with that SB16... You should not have any issue if you have this card: […]
Show full quote

@LunarG
Weird problem with that SB16... You should not have any issue if you have this card:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-multi … ml#.Uh_dzX9Mflc

I suggest

1.
- Setting the jumpers for I/O base to 220h by closing IOS0 and IOS1
- close RPSK
- also close pins 2 and 3 on the test connector block (labelled AUDIO)

2.
check autoexec.bat again for the correct SB16 lines,
preferred SB environment values are A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6

3.
run diagnose.exe
run mixerset.exe

Indeed, it is weird. I just don't get it. I've changed the DMA of my GUS to 3, to be certain it shares no resources with the SB16. Gus is now: 240, irq7, dma3. SB16 is 220, irq5, low-dma1, high-dma5.
I've set FT2.08 to use these SB settings and it starts playing but stops playback halfway through the first pattern. Switching back to the GUS, FT2 plays music just fine. Doom runs just fine with GUS, but with SB16 I get music and no sound effects.
I seem to remember seeing this FT2 plackback freeze at some point in the past, but can't remember what caused it or how to solve it. It does prove that the card produces digital sound though, it just stops after a few seconds (pattern stops progressing, as if you'd pressed the stop button). Aside from Matrox Millennium, GUS and SB16, there are no expansion cards installed in the system, so I just don't see what would be causing these issues.