WOW!

Another reason to build an ATX system 😀

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

WOW!

You can say that again!

I'd be very cautious running a system that packed and with such (ostensibly) limited airflow. Have you looked at getting rounded cables, bay/slot fans, modding blow-holes into the case, etc?

Yea you want to put all these parts into a full AT tower.

I'm guessing/hoping your not overclocking. Celeron 400's aren't hot running chips and none of the cards generates stupid amount's of heat either. While not ideal I don't think its that dangerous. I remember similar poorly cabled PC's existing back in the day.

Looks like you have a lot of excess ribbon cables cluttering up the space. You can always simply cut them down to size. Rounded cables are even better though

AT layout is challenging, but you can definitely improve the cabling. Here's my packed AT machine

After Sleeping on it, I rearranged things a bit. Still can't turn it on, though. The sound card presses right against the speaker (which is why it wasn't in the bottom slot in the first place - I had forgotten.) Trying to decide on what to do next. I might have room to switch the MPU & AWE back now. Alternately, I can see about moving/removing the speaker (if I can find one of those mini-speaker doodads.) Finally, and my least favorite because the speaker produces a magnetic field and could result in audio distortion, is to just put a piece of insulation between the AWE & speaker. Will do one of those (mainly looking for a mini-speaker doodad right now.)

By moving the Voodoo II down, it's no longer right against the bottom HDD so I have room to move those ribbon cables into the empty area there. I don't recall reading anywhere that the Voodoo II had to be right next to the VGA card, it's just something I tend to do (group like cards together.) This uncovered the fan - which was a good thing, as all the routing I had done had unclipped it. Not much I can do about the floppy cable. I'm looking to see if I have another one somewhere. I'm not a big fan of how it's connected. I want the 3.5" to be A, but routing limitations forced me to attach it as B. BIOS allows me to switch them, but I'd prefer to do it via the cable.

It isn't overclocked. I never overclock, its usually not worth the risk. Though my new primary system case makes it a wee bit tempting. With 5 intake & 5 output fans, all the cables routed behind the back plate (well most of them,) cooling & airflow isn't much of an issue 😀 As for this system, I'm out of goo, so the heat sink isn't "sealed" to the CPU. All my research says that the C400 doesn't run that hot, so as long as there is decent airflow I'm not worried about it. My main concern right now is, how hot does the P3-1000Mhz run? If I get it, I'll also get more goo, so that would change that. I'm also thinking of using a different fan. This one doesn't seem to like staying put, but it's the only one with a 3-pin power connecter. The other 2 are a 2-pin and a molex pass-through.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

WOW!

Another reason to build an ATX system 😀

Or better routing the cables..

Finally looking better. Couldn't find a mini-speaker, this one is rather tightly clamped down anyway.... After 10 Minutes of trying to carefully remove it, decided I would need to take everything out of the case to do it safely. Next month (assuming the HDDs aren't toast that is,) I'm planning to get that P3-1000Mhz and put it in there, along with the USB bracket if I can find it (I'll buy one if not, they aren't that expensive.) Not worried about speed (if a program needs slowing down, I use DOSBox anyway.) I want it primarily for the ISA slots and the medium old DOS games that are just easier/better to play on a real machine 😀 Most of those don't suffer from a speed issue. If they do, can always turn of the cache(s). Don't see anything making unwanted connections... Everything is sitting firmly (except the stupid fan, think I'll switch it out after all.) Good airflow over the CPU now - well fair. Nothing blocking the fan at least. Not "completely" happy with the clearance between the AWE32 and the SCB-55 daughter board. But can't think of anything to do about it 🙁

Looks fine. You can always consider placing firm solid plastic between the AWE32 and SCB-55 / MPU-401AT combination! 😀 Have fun! 🤣

That's what I'm probably going to do, I have some around here somewhere. I'm glad I don't have to buy another MB, but the layout of this board sucks. The FDD port is right behind the keyboard port. The CPU is right behind that, and the IDE ports are on the opposite corner from the KB port. So, there isn't a lot of choice in cable routing. I could probably use a shorter cable on IDE-1 (if I had one,) as those drives are right next to each other. But IDE 2 has to stretch from the top drive, past both floppies, to the CD-ROM. That stretch force me to get creative with routing the floppy cable (which is why I had to make the 3.5" drive B.) Right now I'm trying to find my mixer and audio cables..... Not sure I have what I need to plug in the MT-32 audio output. I have stereo plugs that size, but no mono.

I got these rounded FDD cables from eBay. Make for a cleaner build.

After consideration, it sort of dawns on me that I'm not likely to need more than one MIDI device at a time. If I did, I would also probably have to use multiple MPU-401's to talk to them (on different IO channels 300/330/etc...) So instead of getting a bigger mixer, just get an audio switch box to switch between the MT-32 & MPU-401AT, and maybe any other devices I get. I'd still have to feed the output through the AWE32 though, as I only have a 8 channel (in my searches came to learn that 4 stereo inputs = 8 channel mixer,) simple mixer. Of course, I'm probably going to get an A/V switch instead of just an audio switch. For some reason, removing the "video" component multiplies the price by 8. Can get a decent reviewed A/V switch for $2 and the cheapest (didn't check reviews,) audio only switch was $17. Sort of wondering what gives here??

I use an AV switch for switching between the MT-32, CM-32L and Sound Canvas 😀

One MPU401 device is all it takes. If there is a second one, just set it to 300 and you should be set.

Some MIDI devices offer pass through. My MPU-401 (original) has 2X MIDI OUT which is also convenient.

Best and cheapest way than a 2nd MPU card is to get a midi-thru box. What it does is multiplying midi outputs so you can connect several devices to a single midi port. I've got two of these boxes, here they are gutted 😁 🤣 🤣

I think I was misunderstood. I know I can connect several devices to a MPU-401. I've been reading the manual, and I cannot find anything that says how to direct commands to specific devices. So, if I play a MIDI file (or a game does,) through the MPU-401AT, it will go to all the devices connected to it. The only way I can think of to extend MIDI play so that multiple devices are playing different parts is to have the devices each connected to a different interface. I'm still not completely sure about that, but it looks that way, the manuals I've found are extremely technical. That being the case, to mix all the devices connected to my MPU-401AT (SCB-55 & MT-32 right now - maybe a CM-32L later, maybe others don't know yet,) would mean that I would end up getting the same song/game music played on all devices at the same time. Why would I need that? Sure, it could (as long as the tune wasn't designed with specific features in mind,) add some depth to the sound, but it's the same as just doubling the instruments in a band without actually adding in any new parts.

So, if I'm not going to need more than one device at a time, why spend the tremendous amount of money to get a larger mixer. I swear, the cost progresses logarithmically as you add channels. From $20-50 for a decent 8-channel (4 stereo inputs,) to $100+ for a 10, and it increases very quickly. It doesn't seem to help that as you add channels, it becomes harder & harder to find simple mixers (without all the bells and whistles I don't need.) I just want another board like I used to have. It broke during the move - Hooked it up, and nothing, light comes on, but no sound. It might be fixable, but everything "looks" ok, and it probably isn't worth the cost of taking it in for repair (it's almost 30 years old.)

I'm also learning not to trust titles and descriptions as much. I got fairly ticked off when I found a good one with 8 stereo inputs (16 channels) and 2 stereo output (was only $50 which should have tipped me off.) Only, I read the reviews and discovered that it "mixes" the inputs down to mono, then outputs them as equalized stereo (both left & right identical.) I mean, what's the purpose of stereo if you are going to do that?? It was rather perfect too. All my current computers, 3 MIDI devices, and my main systems "back" speaker outputs in one mixer. Direct all but my main system's back speakers to the front, and all but my main systems front speakers to the back (you could switch it like that.) I was getting rather excited, and even thinking of asking to borrow $50 till the 3rd (when I get my check.) Only, I decided to read the reviews first....

For now, I have my eye on one with 4 stereo (8 channel,) inputs that are "true" stereo, for $30. Would sort of prefer one with 5 inputs so I can have one for my MIDI inputs (from the MPU through a switch box.) But it looks like I'm going to have to settle for passing the MIDI devices through my AWE32 card. Would rather not do that, but not really willing to spend the extra $100, at this time, to get a bigger mixer. Though, one fix for that would be to put my Amigas on a 2 input (4 channel) amplified mixer first (their output is rather low, have to max out the volume on their inputs, and they are still rather quiet.) That would give me another input to use for the MIDI devices. That's for the future though.

Yes you want the MIDI signal to go to all devices! If they are all turned on, they will all play simultaneously 😀

Then you use an AV switch to select the output you want and power down unused units.

I use a 4 channel stereo mixer from Phonic. Was around $100. It also has to mic inputs and I was going to use that but then found out that my capture card allows mixing in a commentary anyway.

So currently I have the MT-32, CM32L and Sound Canvas outputs connected to a 4 to 1 AV switch. From there it goes to the mixer. On the mixer I also have the AWE64 Gold to control speech and a separate CD-Audio cable I built myself. This is because often the CD audio tracks are too quiet but the CD-Audio cable also picks up static, so I can easily mute it which is a pain with the onboard mixer.

Well, the whole question is now moot. Finally got the cables routed as best I could, and after spending 2 days trying to put a "free" OS on a mostly modern system I'm planning to sell (mostly for testing purposes, but was planning to leave it installed when I sold it,) I gave up and used my "de-activated" Windows XP to test it with. It's a corporate version (I got it when I was working,) so doesn't need activating, but for some "strange" reason, on May 20th I suddenly started getting messages that it was "Not a Genuine Version." You know that stupid watermark that pops up when Microsoft marks a legitimately purchased OS as pirated. Since I can't connect the system to the internet, it was safe to install it and check things out..... Ack getting off topic, back on topic now....

It turns out there's something wrong with the motherboard. Booted it up, and it would only see the first HDD. I re-wired everything, and swapped out both cables... Same thing. Triple checked the jumper settings, they were all fine. Then I noticed that the bios was well behind the last one. Luckystar seems to be out of business, but I had found BIOS files with web searches prior to booting it up, and prepared a BIOS flash boot - just in case. Well, I confirmed that the BIOS file was the correct one for my MB again, just to make sure, then went to flash it. As is my custom, when I loaded the flash software, I first backed up my current BIOS. Then flashed the new one. Seemed to be working ok (if slow,) when right at the end I get a flash failed "checksum error". Ok, flash it again.... same thing. after 5 of those, gave up (maybe I have the wrong BIOS after all.) Restore the backup.... "checksum error." Ok, now I'm pulling my hair out 🙁 But the board is toast. So, out everything comes, and off I go to eBay to get another board.

FeedingDragon wrote:

Well, the whole question is now moot. Finally got the cables routed as best I could, and after spending 2 days trying to put a "free" OS on a mostly modern system I'm planning to sell (mostly for testing purposes, but was planning to leave it installed when I sold it,) I gave up and used my "de-activated" Windows XP to test it with. It's a corporate version (I got it when I was working,) so doesn't need activating, but for some "strange" reason, on May 20th I suddenly started getting messages that it was "Not a Genuine Version." You know that stupid watermark that pops up when Microsoft marks a legitimately purchased OS as pirated. Since I can't connect the system to the internet, it was safe to install it and check things out..... Ack getting off topic, back on topic now....

It turns out there's something wrong with the motherboard. Booted it up, and it would only see the first HDD. I re-wired everything, and swapped out both cables... Same thing. Triple checked the jumper settings, they were all fine. Then I noticed that the bios was well behind the last one. Luckystar seems to be out of business, but I had found BIOS files with web searches prior to booting it up, and prepared a BIOS flash boot - just in case. Well, I confirmed that the BIOS file was the correct one for my MB again, just to make sure, then went to flash it. As is my custom, when I loaded the flash software, I first backed up my current BIOS. Then flashed the new one. Seemed to be working ok (if slow,) when right at the end I get a flash failed "checksum error". Ok, flash it again.... same thing. after 5 of those, gave up (maybe I have the wrong BIOS after all.) Restore the backup.... "checksum error." Ok, now I'm pulling my hair out 🙁 But the board is toast. So, out everything comes, and off I go to eBay to get another board.

Before giving up,did you try Uniflash along with another DIP32 BIOS chip?
I had a PLCC BIOS chip that would give me that result no matter how many times I flashed it.
I fixed that by using another BIOS chip.