VOGONS


Reply 40 of 52, by Madowax

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feipoa wrote:
I actually don't know anything about Amiga systems and have never owned one. So Amiga's use a DB9 connector for a bus mouse? Th […]
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I actually don't know anything about Amiga systems and have never owned one. So Amiga's use a DB9 connector for a bus mouse? That's interesting - I thought bus and inport mice were mini-DIN9.

Is there any hardware on your protocol converter board which needed to be altered to decrease the lag, or is the lag issue purely a software (firmware) alteration? If it is purely software, I wonder if you'd be able to send your firmware adapted for matze79's unit? Solving the lag issue with KVM's is of great interest to me, and I know others have commented as well that they KVM's showed horrific lag. Some KVM's seem to be OK though.

If shipping is not too costly, I might be willing to test your adapter directly. Do you have a spare, or just the single unit?

Has there been any thought to build a PS/2 mouse ISA card, as you have, but using a keyboard controller chip instead of doing a protocol conversion?

Basically I edited the firmware to remove the LEDs routine and to increase the MCU frequency from 8Mhz to 12Mhz, this change increases the speed ofc, but 12 Mhz is also evenly divisible by 1200 baud, in that way there is no serial speed margin of error like with a 8 Mhz frequency. These changes can also be applied to the original adapter, you simply have to change the crystal and his 2 ceramic caps and upload the new firmware in the ATTiny (1 programming fuse need to be changed in avrdude command line). The other difference is not applicable to the original adapter, infact being on the same pcb the attiny and the uart ic don't need any transceiver/receiver driver IC like the max232 and the counterpart IC you find on a PC serial interface to convert RS-232 signals to TTL-232 signals and viceversa, they communicate directly at TTL-232 level without any level conversion. I don't know if this will solve the problems related to the KVMs I have considered a PCB design with a PLCC-44 version of a PS/2 compatible KBC plus keyboard and mouse ports on the bracket, but this also needs modifications to the motherboard, like the bios modding and reflashing to enable the PS/2 mouse support and I suspect the removal of the original KBC IC if present or to disable the KBC if integrated in the chipset southbridge.

Reply 41 of 52, by matze79

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There is new Firmware, nice aproach i also had this idea 😀
Now with higher Baudrate to reduce lag.

Where can i get a Card ? 😁

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 42 of 52, by feipoa

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I think he said (in PM) that he's working on getting the final board ready. Will ship to me for KVM testing.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 43 of 52, by Madowax

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feipoa wrote:

I think he said (in PM) that he's working on getting the final board ready. Will ship to me for KVM testing.

I'm working on it, but in the meantime I stumbled on an amiga 4000 motherboard and on a Octek Jaguar II, so you know... 🤣

Reply 44 of 52, by InjecTioN

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@Madowax, could you perhaps provide the files for this specific motherboard, necessary for modifying the address from 330 to 300 on the SCSI card? I’ve found the ECU, but haven’t been able to find the system disk to compliment it. The ECU application keeps asking for it. The SCSI card OVL and CFG have already been obtained.

Thanks in advance.

Also, sorry for upping this relatively older thread.

Reply 45 of 52, by Madowax

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InjecTioN wrote on 2020-09-03, 14:12:

@Madowax, could you perhaps provide the files for this specific motherboard, necessary for modifying the address from 330 to 300 on the SCSI card? I’ve found the ECU, but haven’t been able to find the system disk to compliment it. The ECU application keeps asking for it. The SCSI card OVL and CFG have already been obtained.

Thanks in advance.

Also, sorry for upping this relatively older thread.

You should use the cf.exe command and not the sd.exe . In that way the utility should start without asking for a System Disk, the mainboard itself just needs the !opt0000.cfg file to be configured, that is included in the ecu archive. If you copy the contents of the ecu archive on a bootable floppy, the included autoexec.bat just launches sd.exe on boot and that requires the system disk with an already saved eisa configuration on it, you should delete the autoexec.bat file and at prompt manually launch cf.exe, you can of course also boot with left shift pressed and dos will ignore the autoexec.bat and config.sys. ECU utilities take advantage of XMS memory but they don't like EMS, so you can use himem.sys but not emm386 or similar protected mode EMS memory managers, this last part only if you want to add your own config.sys to the disk.
Which EISA SCSI controller are you using that uses I/O 330? Aha-2740 does not use that I/O address.

Attachments

  • Filename
    tmcecu27.zip
    File size
    390.26 KiB
    Downloads
    28 downloads
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 46 of 52, by InjecTioN

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Madowax wrote on 2020-09-03, 18:52:
InjecTioN wrote on 2020-09-03, 14:12:

@Madowax, could you perhaps provide the files for this specific motherboard, necessary for modifying the address from 330 to 300 on the SCSI card? I’ve found the ECU, but haven’t been able to find the system disk to compliment it. The ECU application keeps asking for it. The SCSI card OVL and CFG have already been obtained.

Thanks in advance.

Also, sorry for upping this relatively older thread.

You should use the cf.exe command and not the sd.exe . In that way the utility should start without asking for a System Disk, the mainboard itself just needs the !opt0000.cfg file to be configured, that is included in the ecu archive. If you copy the contents of the ecu archive on a bootable floppy, the included autoexec.bat just launches sd.exe on boot and that requires the system disk with an already saved eisa configuration on it, you should delete the autoexec.bat file and at prompt manually launch cf.exe, you can of course also boot with left shift pressed and dos will ignore the autoexec.bat and config.sys. ECU utilities take advantage of XMS memory but they don't like EMS, so you can use himem.sys but not emm386 or similar protected mode EMS memory managers, this last part only if you want to add your own config.sys to the disk.
Which EISA SCSI controller are you using that uses I/O 330? Aha-2740 does not use that I/O address.

Thank you! You've helped me a lot! First EISA system here. 😉

You are absolutely correct. The official Adaptec AHA-2740 probably doesn't have that I/O address. I came to conclusion that I actually own a pretty similar card, which is the "BusTek 80c20". This of course is fine, but absolutely not the same. The BusTek 80c20 is configurable through the ECU, and actually uses the 330 I/O Address by default, though. I've set it to I/O address 334 now. Everything seems to work out of the box from now on! Oh and the !BUS4201.CFG needs to be used.

When obtaining it, I thought mine actually had an AHA-2740 chip on it. I couldn't find anything else than the chipset itself, so I "just assumed"... Little did I know 😉

All the pictures I could find for that card, contain an AMD chipset on board.

Both you and mR_Slug was definitely of good help this time. Thanks to you both!
Sources:
!OPT0000.CFG
!BUS4201.CFG
tmcecu27.zip
http://66.113.161.23/~mR_Slug/EISA/

Attachments

  • Filename
    !BUS4201.CFG
    File size
    7.95 KiB
    Downloads
    24 downloads
    File license
    Public domain
  • Filename
    !OPT0000.CFG
    File size
    8.67 KiB
    Downloads
    21 downloads
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 47 of 52, by Madowax

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InjecTioN wrote on 2020-09-03, 20:03:
Thank you! You've helped me a lot! First EISA system here. ;) […]
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Madowax wrote on 2020-09-03, 18:52:
InjecTioN wrote on 2020-09-03, 14:12:

@Madowax, could you perhaps provide the files for this specific motherboard, necessary for modifying the address from 330 to 300 on the SCSI card? I’ve found the ECU, but haven’t been able to find the system disk to compliment it. The ECU application keeps asking for it. The SCSI card OVL and CFG have already been obtained.

Thanks in advance.

Also, sorry for upping this relatively older thread.

You should use the cf.exe command and not the sd.exe . In that way the utility should start without asking for a System Disk, the mainboard itself just needs the !opt0000.cfg file to be configured, that is included in the ecu archive. If you copy the contents of the ecu archive on a bootable floppy, the included autoexec.bat just launches sd.exe on boot and that requires the system disk with an already saved eisa configuration on it, you should delete the autoexec.bat file and at prompt manually launch cf.exe, you can of course also boot with left shift pressed and dos will ignore the autoexec.bat and config.sys. ECU utilities take advantage of XMS memory but they don't like EMS, so you can use himem.sys but not emm386 or similar protected mode EMS memory managers, this last part only if you want to add your own config.sys to the disk.
Which EISA SCSI controller are you using that uses I/O 330? Aha-2740 does not use that I/O address.

Thank you! You've helped me a lot! First EISA system here. 😉

You are absolutely correct. The official Adaptec AHA-2740 probably doesn't have that I/O address. I came to conclusion that I actually own a pretty similar card, which is the "BusTek 80c20". This of course is fine, but absolutely not the same. The BusTek 80c20 is configurable through the ECU, and actually uses the 330 I/O Address by default, though. I've set it to I/O address 334 now. Everything seems to work out of the box from now on! Oh and the !BUS4201.CFG needs to be used.

When obtaining it, I thought mine actually had an AHA-2740 chip on it. I couldn't find anything else than the chipset itself, so I "just assumed"... Little did I know 😉

All the pictures I could find for that card, contain an AMD chipset on board.

Both you and mR_Slug was definitely of good help this time. Thanks to you both!
Sources:
!OPT0000.CFG
!BUS4201.CFG
tmcecu27.zip
http://66.113.161.23/~mR_Slug/EISA/

Interesting, it should be a Bus Logic SCSI Host Adapter, if it uses the !bus4201.cfg, it should be model BT-742A/747S/757S, 742A/747S support only narrow scsi, while 757 supports wide scsi.
Support Page: https://web.archive.org/web/19970506210415fw_ … ultimaster.html

Reply 48 of 52, by brassicGamer

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I've had one of these boards for a few years, but am only just starting to build a system around it now.

But it won't POST. I've verified that all the jumpers and resistor networks are configured correctly. I'm using a DX/50, which has been tested in another 486 board, along with the parity RAM and the cache. I have tried both 72-pin and 30-pin SIMMs. The CPU is getting warm, but I'm getting no beeps.

In the absence of an oscilloscope, what else can I check? The board passes a physical inspection and the PSU is known good also.

EDIT: Worked it out. I took a chance on a replacement RTC and half-expected a fake. As soon as I swapped out the new with the old, it booted.

Additionally, @Madowax I have a question regarding cache. My board came with only the 2x MT5C6401-12 chips, as yours appears to have. These are the 64Kx1 TAG chips that, according to TH99 at least, are matched with the 512KB cache configuration. The cache chips you are using appear to be 32Kx8 for 256KB cache - I have tried the same configuration and it refuses to work, so I assumed I would need to acquire 16Kx1 TAG as TH99 says. Can you confirm this combination is working in your motherboard?

Check out my blog and YouTube channel for thoughts, articles, system profiles, and tips.

Reply 49 of 52, by InjecTioN

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brassicGamer wrote on 2021-03-13, 01:05:
I've had one of these boards for a few years, but am only just starting to build a system around it now. […]
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I've had one of these boards for a few years, but am only just starting to build a system around it now.

But it won't POST. I've verified that all the jumpers and resistor networks are configured correctly. I'm using a DX/50, which has been tested in another 486 board, along with the parity RAM and the cache. I have tried both 72-pin and 30-pin SIMMs. The CPU is getting warm, but I'm getting no beeps.

In the absence of an oscilloscope, what else can I check? The board passes a physical inspection and the PSU is known good also.

EDIT: Worked it out. I took a chance on a replacement RTC and half-expected a fake. As soon as I swapped out the new with the old, it booted.

Additionally, @Madowax I have a question regarding cache. My board came with only the 2x MT5C6401-12 chips, as yours appears to have. These are the 64Kx1 TAG chips that, according to TH99 at least, are matched with the 512KB cache configuration. The cache chips you are using appear to be 32Kx8 for 256KB cache - I have tried the same configuration and it refuses to work, so I assumed I would need to acquire 16Kx1 TAG as TH99 says. Can you confirm this combination is working in your motherboard?

Are by any chance both L1 and L2 cache not working for you? I somehow can't seem to get either to work. I've even changed to different kinds of cache, but no luck.

Cachechk is showing me this:

IMG_2190.jpeg
Filename
IMG_2190.jpeg
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1.43 MiB
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304 views
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Public domain
IMG_2198.jpeg
Filename
IMG_2198.jpeg
File size
1.52 MiB
Views
304 views
File license
Public domain
IMG_2199.jpeg
Filename
IMG_2199.jpeg
File size
1.5 MiB
Views
304 views
File license
Public domain

As a side note, which is actually just as important as the cache issue, the CPU's performance (486DX2-66) is about as bad as a 486SX-25, while running at 66MHz.

IMG_2181.jpeg
Filename
IMG_2181.jpeg
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1.38 MiB
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304 views
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BIOS settings currently are like this, but it doesn't seem to matter what I do. Even after a BIOS reset it just doesn't seem to work properly (even modding the Dallas RTC doesn't resolve any issues):

IMG_2180.jpeg
Filename
IMG_2180.jpeg
File size
1.55 MiB
Views
304 views
File license
Public domain

All documentation on this board seems to be lost too, except for some resistor pack & jumper settings. If anyone has a booklet or some other physical manual with more information about this board, please do share!

Reply 50 of 52, by Madowax

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InjecTioN wrote on 2021-11-10, 16:32:
Are by any chance both L1 and L2 cache not working for you? I somehow can't seem to get either to work. I've even changed to dif […]
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brassicGamer wrote on 2021-03-13, 01:05:
I've had one of these boards for a few years, but am only just starting to build a system around it now. […]
Show full quote

I've had one of these boards for a few years, but am only just starting to build a system around it now.

But it won't POST. I've verified that all the jumpers and resistor networks are configured correctly. I'm using a DX/50, which has been tested in another 486 board, along with the parity RAM and the cache. I have tried both 72-pin and 30-pin SIMMs. The CPU is getting warm, but I'm getting no beeps.

In the absence of an oscilloscope, what else can I check? The board passes a physical inspection and the PSU is known good also.

EDIT: Worked it out. I took a chance on a replacement RTC and half-expected a fake. As soon as I swapped out the new with the old, it booted.

Additionally, @Madowax I have a question regarding cache. My board came with only the 2x MT5C6401-12 chips, as yours appears to have. These are the 64Kx1 TAG chips that, according to TH99 at least, are matched with the 512KB cache configuration. The cache chips you are using appear to be 32Kx8 for 256KB cache - I have tried the same configuration and it refuses to work, so I assumed I would need to acquire 16Kx1 TAG as TH99 says. Can you confirm this combination is working in your motherboard?

Are by any chance both L1 and L2 cache not working for you? I somehow can't seem to get either to work. I've even changed to different kinds of cache, but no luck.

As a side note, which is actually just as important as the cache issue, the CPU's performance (486DX2-66) is about as bad as a 486SX-25, while running at 66MHz.

BIOS settings currently are like this, but it doesn't seem to matter what I do. Even after a BIOS reset it just doesn't seem to work properly (even modding the Dallas RTC doesn't resolve any issues):

All documentation on this board seems to be lost too, except for some resistor pack & jumper settings. If anyone has a booklet or some other physical manual with more information about this board, please do share!

Extended cache ICs 64K*1 are needed to cache all the ram up to 128MB, btw I have a manual for the SWAN DB server that used this mobo, in both its revisions the one with the crystals and the one with the oscillator IC. Here it is, hope it helps, you need both *1 and *8 cache pieces for the L2 cache to work.
EDIT:
I am going to attach ECU utility and chipset datasheet too.

Attachments

  • Filename
    opti486wb.pdf
    File size
    4.63 MiB
    Downloads
    15 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    tmcecu27.zip
    File size
    390.26 KiB
    Downloads
    9 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    pet48pn.pdf
    File size
    1.05 MiB
    Downloads
    21 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by Madowax on 2021-11-11, 04:16. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 51 of 52, by Anonymous Coward

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Oh, that's neat. I didn't know this board was used by OEMs.

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V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 52 of 52, by Madowax

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Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-11-11, 00:27:

Oh, that's neat. I didn't know this board was used by OEMs.

Yep the ECU utility download link I originally posted came from NEC North AM FTP server, in the old backup folder for Zenith DATA System and SWAN Technologies, both acquired by NEC.