speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 03:12:

Thanks! […]
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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-29, 18:32:

Nice build! […]
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Nice build!

I recently built something similar albiet with a crappy PC Chips M571 board, but also a K6-3+ @6x83=500mhz and a PCI Voodoo 3.

I had a heck of time getting mine stable but mainly due to my board not really allowing for low enough voltage for the chip, and weirdness with IDE controllers on the board.

But in the in end it is running and pretty stable.

I'd be curious to see some benchmarks if you have the time. I always start with Phil's DOS benchmark suite.

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html

It would be cool to compare how your admittedly more quality mainstream board compares to my cheap and nastyl PC chips solution.

Thanks!

Here you go:
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark = 533.3
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark 640x480 = 114.8
- PC Player Benchmark = 151.9
- PC Player Benchmark 640x480 = 37.9
- Doom (Max) = 123.7
- Quake = 89.6
- Quake 640x480 = i'm curious now what your results are now 😀

Here you got, thanks again for running those I included a few Windows benchmarks as well

A few benchmarks are @ 83x6=500mhz

Superscape 1.0 Low Res: Comes back 0.0 but runs super fast?
Superscape 1.0 High Res: 587.5
Chris' 3D Bench Low Res: 627.6 (376.5FPS)
Chris' 3D Bench High Res: 116 (69.6FPS)
PC Player Bench Low Res: 162.3FPS
PC Player Bench High Res: 41.2FPS
DOOM Minimum: 2134 in 140 realtics
DOOM Maximum: 2134 in 510 realtics
Quake Low Res: 88.5
Quake Medium Res: 38.0
Quake High Res: 22.2FPS
Topbench: 519
Speedsys CPU: 564.46
Speedsys Memory Bandwidth - 186.69 MB/s
Speedsys Throughput - 122.57MB/s

Windows benchmarks:

3DMark 99 Max Default Run 800x600 16bit:
2750 3D Marks
6501 CPU 3D Marks

3DMark 2000: Default Run 1024x768 16bit:
1509 3DMarks ( I might do a 800x600 run later who knows)

Unreal avg about 44fps @ 800x600

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-31, 15:30:

Here you got, thanks again for running those I included a few Windows benchmarks as well […]
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speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 03:12:

Thanks! […]
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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-29, 18:32:

Nice build! […]
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Nice build!

I recently built something similar albiet with a crappy PC Chips M571 board, but also a K6-3+ @6x83=500mhz and a PCI Voodoo 3.

I had a heck of time getting mine stable but mainly due to my board not really allowing for low enough voltage for the chip, and weirdness with IDE controllers on the board.

But in the in end it is running and pretty stable.

I'd be curious to see some benchmarks if you have the time. I always start with Phil's DOS benchmark suite.

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html

It would be cool to compare how your admittedly more quality mainstream board compares to my cheap and nastyl PC chips solution.

Thanks!

Here you go:
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark = 533.3
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark 640x480 = 114.8
- PC Player Benchmark = 151.9
- PC Player Benchmark 640x480 = 37.9
- Doom (Max) = 123.7
- Quake = 89.6
- Quake 640x480 = i'm curious now what your results are now 😀

Here you got, thanks again for running those I included a few Windows benchmarks as well

A few benchmarks are @ 83x6=500mhz

Superscape 1.0 Low Res: Comes back 0.0 but runs super fast?
Superscape 1.0 High Res: 587.5
Chris' 3D Bench Low Res: 627.6 (376.5FPS)
Chris' 3D Bench High Res: 116 (69.6FPS)
PC Player Bench Low Res: 162.3FPS
PC Player Bench High Res: 41.2FPS
DOOM Minimum: 2134 in 140 realtics
DOOM Maximum: 2134 in 510 realtics
Quake Low Res: 88.5
Quake Medium Res: 38.0
Quake High Res: 22.2FPS
Topbench: 519
Speedsys CPU: 564.46
Speedsys Memory Bandwidth - 186.69 MB/s
Speedsys Throughput - 122.57MB/s

Windows benchmarks:

3DMark 99 Max Default Run 800x600 16bit:
2750 3D Marks
6501 CPU 3D Marks

3DMark 2000: Default Run 1024x768 16bit:
1509 3DMarks ( I might do a 800x600 run later who knows)

Unreal avg about 44fps @ 800x600

Were all of those at 6x83 or were some faster/slower?

Also, do you use Extended or Expanded memory for DOS? I ran with Extended memory but wasn’t sure what’s typical for benchmarking.

Your Doom Maximum Detail score of 146.5 is blazing fast.

Also, you by chance have a GL Quake II 640x480 score? Mine is 92.3 FPS.

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 15:56:

Were all of those at 6x83 or were some faster/slower? […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-31, 15:30:

Here you got, thanks again for running those I included a few Windows benchmarks as well […]
Show full quote

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 03:12:

Thanks! […]
Show full quote

Thanks!

Here you go:
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark = 533.3
- Chris’s 3D Benchmark 640x480 = 114.8
- PC Player Benchmark = 151.9
- PC Player Benchmark 640x480 = 37.9
- Doom (Max) = 123.7
- Quake = 89.6
- Quake 640x480 = i'm curious now what your results are now 😀

Here you got, thanks again for running those I included a few Windows benchmarks as well

A few benchmarks are @ 83x6=500mhz

Superscape 1.0 Low Res: Comes back 0.0 but runs super fast?
Superscape 1.0 High Res: 587.5
Chris' 3D Bench Low Res: 627.6 (376.5FPS)
Chris' 3D Bench High Res: 116 (69.6FPS)
PC Player Bench Low Res: 162.3FPS
PC Player Bench High Res: 41.2FPS
DOOM Minimum: 2134 in 140 realtics
DOOM Maximum: 2134 in 510 realtics
Quake Low Res: 88.5
Quake Medium Res: 38.0
Quake High Res: 22.2FPS
Topbench: 519
Speedsys CPU: 564.46
Speedsys Memory Bandwidth - 186.69 MB/s
Speedsys Throughput - 122.57MB/s

Windows benchmarks:

3DMark 99 Max Default Run 800x600 16bit:
2750 3D Marks
6501 CPU 3D Marks

3DMark 2000: Default Run 1024x768 16bit:
1509 3DMarks ( I might do a 800x600 run later who knows)

Unreal avg about 44fps @ 800x600

Were all of those at 6x83 or were some faster/slower?

Also, do you use Extended or Expanded memory for DOS? I ran with Extended memory but wasn’t sure what’s typical for benchmarking.

Your Doom Maximum Detail score of 146.5 is blazing fast.

Also, you by chance have a GL Quake II 640x480 score? Mine is 92.3 FPS.

Those were all at 83mhz. My board won't go any higher and honestly 83mhz isn't even officially supported, but it can't work in some cases.

I have some benchmarks at 75mhz FSB which is the fastest official speed supported.

I'm not sure on the Extended vs Expanded. I have 98se installed and I simply used F8 to boot into command prompt only mode to run the benchmarks.

I will say that I used a single 128mb stick of ram and all of the lowest latency/tightest timings my BIOS supports. My external cache is enabled and is 5 12k.

I don't have any GLQuake results but I can install and run them for you.

Edit: What demo did you run?
I ran Demo1 and 73.1 FPS. Demo 3 68.8 , and Demo2 75.59
Seems like a big difference from yours?

Here are the 75x6=450mhz results.

Superscape 1.0 Low Res: Comes back 0.0 but runs super fast?
Superscape 1.0 High Res: 530.9
Chris' 3D Bench Low Res: 566.8 (340.0FPS)
Chris' 3D Bench High Res: 104.7 (62.8FPS)
PC Player Bench Low Res: 146.5FPS
PC Player Bench High Res: 34.7FPS
DOOM Minimum: 2134 in 154 realtics
DOOM Maximum: 2134 in 636 realtics
Quake Low Res: 79.9
Quake Medium Res: 34.3
Quake High Res: 19.5FPS
Topbench: 438
Speedsys CPU: 509.61
Speedsys Memory Throughput - 110.48 MB/s

Windows benchmarks:

3DMark 99 Max Default Run 800x600 16bit:
2551 3D Marks
5930 CPU 3D Marks

3DMark 2000: Default Run 1024x768 16bit:
1417 3DMarks

What a beautiful build. I love the contrast of the retro funky PCBs with the sleek and modern brushed aluminum case. So cool!

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-31, 17:16:

I don't have any GLQuake results but I can install and run them for you. […]
Show full quote

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 15:56:

Also, you by chance have a GL Quake II 640x480 score? Mine is 92.3 FPS.

I don't have any GLQuake results but I can install and run them for you.

Edit: What demo did you run?
I ran Demo1 and 73.1 FPS. Demo 3 68.8 , and Demo2 75.59
Seems like a big difference from yours?

Agreed, those numbers are pretty far off. I was referring to 3DNow! Quake II 3.20 in OpenGL mode with the 3dfx MiniGL 1.49 driver. I'm using the Voodoo3 1.04.00 Driver as well.

This is how you configure the 3dfx MiniGL 1.49 to work with the 3DNow! patch on Voodoo3 cards:
- Extract the Quake 2 MiniGL file provided by 3dfx to your root Quake 2 directory.
- Rename the MiniGL file (3dfxgl.dll) to the following: opengl32.dll. Be sure to delete/rename any previous opengl32.dll files that were present in your root Quake 2 directory before doing so.
- Extract the AMD Quake 2 3DNow! patch to your Quake 2 directory.
- Start Quake 2. Under the video options menu, choose 3DNow! OpenGL as your rendering device, not 3Dnow! 3dfxGL
Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/277/6

I ran the benchmarks like this:

1disconnect
2timedemo 1
3map demo1.dm2

I left most settings at their defaults but had 8-bit textures off (off = higher quality), CD audio was enabled in my case, and audio quality was set to high. I think I actually may have left v-sync enabled on mine when it was runing, but my CRT was set to 160Hz so I'm not sure how much that would have impacted it.

Regarding your other results. Those are all very interesting. Thanks again for sharing! I want to run some benchmarks on mine at a bunch of different multipliers to see how it runs with various SetMul settings and I plan on documenting all of it.

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 21:50:

Agreed, those numbers are pretty far off. I was referring to 3DNow! Quake II 3.20 in OpenGL mode with the 3dfx MiniGL 1.49 drive […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-31, 17:16:

I don't have any GLQuake results but I can install and run them for you. […]
Show full quote

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-31, 15:56:

Also, you by chance have a GL Quake II 640x480 score? Mine is 92.3 FPS.

I don't have any GLQuake results but I can install and run them for you.

Edit: What demo did you run?
I ran Demo1 and 73.1 FPS. Demo 3 68.8 , and Demo2 75.59
Seems like a big difference from yours?

Agreed, those numbers are pretty far off. I was referring to 3DNow! Quake II 3.20 in OpenGL mode with the 3dfx MiniGL 1.49 driver. I'm using the Voodoo3 1.04.00 Driver as well.

This is how you configure the 3dfx MiniGL 1.49 to work with the 3DNow! patch on Voodoo3 cards:
- Extract the Quake 2 MiniGL file provided by 3dfx to your root Quake 2 directory.
- Rename the MiniGL file (3dfxgl.dll) to the following: opengl32.dll. Be sure to delete/rename any previous opengl32.dll files that were present in your root Quake 2 directory before doing so.
- Extract the AMD Quake 2 3DNow! patch to your Quake 2 directory.
- Start Quake 2. Under the video options menu, choose 3DNow! OpenGL as your rendering device, not 3Dnow! 3dfxGL
Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/277/6

I ran the benchmarks like this:

Copy code to clipboard

1disconnect
2timedemo 1
3map demo1.dm2

I left most settings at their defaults but had 8-bit textures off (off = higher quality), CD audio was enabled in my case, and audio quality was set to high. I think I actually may have left v-sync enabled on mine when it was runing, but my CRT was set to 160Hz so I'm not sure how much that would have impacted it.

Regarding your other results. Those are all very interesting. Thanks again for sharing! I want to run some benchmarks on mine at a bunch of different multipliers to see how it runs with various SetMul settings and I plan on documenting all of it.

I'm sorry about that. You did totally say that you were bench Quake II not Quake.

I've developed some issues with my PC just as this writing with it hanging at POST. I sat down to run those benchmarks and got greeted with checking NVRAM and nothing else.

As soon as I figure out what is going on, (assuming that I do! ) I will get some benchmarks ran. Sorry for the delay.

Well, I was able to get the machine back up and running. I just reset the BIOS and it seemed to do the trick.
I have had some issues with sound cards and unfortunately had to switch out the ESS Audiodrive/Vortex1 combo for my crappy OEM Live 5.1 card.
This did seem to impact performance somewhat as my Unreal benchmarks dropped from about 45 fps to about 38fps. Which sucks but it is at least stable now and not locking up.

I applied the 3dnow patch and I ran the demo's as you requested,
the only one I could get to run was the generic timedemo 1.
This returned a result of 68fps.
Seems a bit low to me, but other than playing through Quake II back in the day I don't have much experience with it.
I seem to remember a 'crusher' demo map being popular but I've no idea how to run it.

Anyway maybe this will give you a metric by which to measure.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-08-03, 15:58:

Well, I was able to get the machine back up and running. I just reset the BIOS and it seemed to do the trick. I have had some i […]
Show full quote

Well, I was able to get the machine back up and running. I just reset the BIOS and it seemed to do the trick.
I have had some issues with sound cards and unfortunately had to switch out the ESS Audiodrive/Vortex1 combo for my crappy OEM Live 5.1 card.
This did seem to impact performance somewhat as my Unreal benchmarks dropped from about 45 fps to about 38fps. Which sucks but it is at least stable now and not locking up.

I applied the 3dnow patch and I ran the demo's as you requested,
the only one I could get to run was the generic timedemo 1.
This returned a result of 68fps.
Seems a bit low to me, but other than playing through Quake II back in the day I don't have much experience with it.
I seem to remember a 'crusher' demo map being popular but I've no idea how to run it.

Anyway maybe this will give you a metric by which to measure.

Sorry to hear you ran into issues with your ESS card. I have an ES1868F and it's a fantastic card, but I had no idea there was an ESS Vortex1 combo card.

That 68fps result is bizarrely low and sounds like the 3DNow! patch isn't working or its just using the default OpenGL driver rather than the 3dfx MiniGL driver.

Regardless, your system is a high performer given your concerns about the quality of the mobo. It never ceases to amaze me how significantly small adjustments can impact performance on these older systems.

Nice setup i use the (my DOS mashine) Asus P5A for the K6III 450 @600MHz

speeddemon wrote on 2021-08-03, 18:53:

Sorry to hear you ran into issues with your ESS card. I have an ES1868F and it's a fantastic card, but I had no idea there was a […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-08-03, 15:58:

Well, I was able to get the machine back up and running. I just reset the BIOS and it seemed to do the trick. I have had some i […]
Show full quote

Well, I was able to get the machine back up and running. I just reset the BIOS and it seemed to do the trick.
I have had some issues with sound cards and unfortunately had to switch out the ESS Audiodrive/Vortex1 combo for my crappy OEM Live 5.1 card.
This did seem to impact performance somewhat as my Unreal benchmarks dropped from about 45 fps to about 38fps. Which sucks but it is at least stable now and not locking up.

I applied the 3dnow patch and I ran the demo's as you requested,
the only one I could get to run was the generic timedemo 1.
This returned a result of 68fps.
Seems a bit low to me, but other than playing through Quake II back in the day I don't have much experience with it.
I seem to remember a 'crusher' demo map being popular but I've no idea how to run it.

Anyway maybe this will give you a metric by which to measure.

Sorry to hear you ran into issues with your ESS card. I have an ES1868F and it's a fantastic card, but I had no idea there was an ESS Vortex1 combo card.

That 68fps result is bizarrely low and sounds like the 3DNow! patch isn't working or its just using the default OpenGL driver rather than the 3dfx MiniGL driver.

Regardless, your system is a high performer given your concerns about the quality of the mobo. It never ceases to amaze me how significantly small adjustments can impact performance on these older systems.

Perhaps poor wording on my part.

It isn't a combo card, it was two cards a ESS ISA card, and a PCI Vortex 1 (Diamond Sonic Impact M90)

I suspect it is a IRQ conflict somewhere and could be resolved somehow. Just takes time.

I also thought the Quake 2 result was low. Perhaps I didn't get the patch applied correctly. I should do some more testing.

But it is a fun build nonetheless. I just really enjoy the Socket 7 era machines.

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-29, 07:26:

I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certai […]
Show full quote

I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certain retro games working on Windows 10. Source Ports, hacks, ScummVM, and DOSBox allowed Windows 10 to meet and even exceed my needs for a long time, but I was re-organizing and cleaning out my storage closet during the pandemic and realized I wanted to do something with many of my old/favorite parts I've held onto over the years.

I initially set out to solely assemble an overkill Pentium 4 Windows 98 system. I realized once I started posting here (thank you Joseph) that I'd run into a number of issues playing older speed sensitive games. The Pentium 4 build was perfect for my late DOS and Windows early 3D accelerated games, but I now understood how I could assemble something better suited to early DOS.

After finishing my Pentium 4 build I went through my parts and found that I already had processors, memory, motherboards, graphics cards, sound cards, drives, cases, power supplies, fans, and more lying around so I figured I'd probably be able to pull this off without purchasing anything new to me.

I originally was going to put together something with a Pentium MMX 233, 64MB RAM, S3 VirgeDX, Voodoo1, PCX2, and ESS ES1868F, but decided to go in a different direction once I started researching things.

I eventually settled on the following:
- Asus TX97-X REV: 3.00 (Socket 7 Intel 430TX)
- K6-III+ 500 (6x83MHz)
- 256MB PC133 CL2 (2x128MB)
- 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 PCI
- Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32
- 80GB Intel SSD 320 (w/ Startech IDE2SAT2 adapter)
- Startech FAN3701U CPU cooler
- Seasonic 500 BQ power supply
- Fractal Core 2300 case
- LaCie Electron 22blue IV CRT

I also have the following but just haven't gotten around to installing them since I haven't needed them:
- Gotek SFR1M44-U100 floppy emulator
- Intel PRO/1000 GT NIC

The cool part to me was that I only ended up needing to purchase some adapters, cables, and the Orpheus + WP32 (which is really just an awesome product I wanted to support).

The most eye-opening part of this project was realizing I could use a K6-III+ on my Socket 7 motherboard. I was able to do this on my Intel 430TX chipset Asus TX97-X motherboard with the K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83 via the patched 0112X_J2 BIOS from The Unofficial AMD K6-2/3+ Page. I was surprised that I've had zero stability issues with an 83MHz FSB even though my memory timings are set as low as possible. Paired with SetMul, this has been an extremely versatile build that runs Quake II at 92fps (640x480) while also allowing me to slow the computer for some old Sierra and Lucas Arts games. The K6-III+ also allowed me to (unnecessarily) put 256MB in the computer.

The only area where I've ran into problems is with Tomb Raider 1 which doesn't seem to like the Voodoo3 even with the Voodoo Rush patch applied. I'll make a separate thread about this, but it's definitely had me considering adding the PCX2 or Voodoo1 card back into this system for early 3D accelerated stuff since I’ll probably play anything later on my Pentium 4 system.

Anyways, here are some pictures of how it turned out:

Oh wow. Yours is damn near identical to my eldest, although you've built yours for the modern age, whereas I upgraded mine over time. I also have a K6-III+ in mine now, but I run mine safely at 2x(6x)66 for the rated 400 MHz speed. I also put a fan on my V3, but you have a bigger one. 😁 It's interesting to compare...

leonardo wrote on 2021-08-04, 23:59:

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-29, 07:26:

I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certai […]
Show full quote

I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certain retro games working on Windows 10. Source Ports, hacks, ScummVM, and DOSBox allowed Windows 10 to meet and even exceed my needs for a long time, but I was re-organizing and cleaning out my storage closet during the pandemic and realized I wanted to do something with many of my old/favorite parts I've held onto over the years.

I initially set out to solely assemble an overkill Pentium 4 Windows 98 system. I realized once I started posting here (thank you Joseph) that I'd run into a number of issues playing older speed sensitive games. The Pentium 4 build was perfect for my late DOS and Windows early 3D accelerated games, but I now understood how I could assemble something better suited to early DOS.

After finishing my Pentium 4 build I went through my parts and found that I already had processors, memory, motherboards, graphics cards, sound cards, drives, cases, power supplies, fans, and more lying around so I figured I'd probably be able to pull this off without purchasing anything new to me.

I originally was going to put together something with a Pentium MMX 233, 64MB RAM, S3 VirgeDX, Voodoo1, PCX2, and ESS ES1868F, but decided to go in a different direction once I started researching things.

I eventually settled on the following:
- Asus TX97-X REV: 3.00 (Socket 7 Intel 430TX)
- K6-III+ 500 (6x83MHz)
- 256MB PC133 CL2 (2x128MB)
- 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 PCI
- Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32
- 80GB Intel SSD 320 (w/ Startech IDE2SAT2 adapter)
- Startech FAN3701U CPU cooler
- Seasonic 500 BQ power supply
- Fractal Core 2300 case
- LaCie Electron 22blue IV CRT

I also have the following but just haven't gotten around to installing them since I haven't needed them:
- Gotek SFR1M44-U100 floppy emulator
- Intel PRO/1000 GT NIC

The cool part to me was that I only ended up needing to purchase some adapters, cables, and the Orpheus + WP32 (which is really just an awesome product I wanted to support).

The most eye-opening part of this project was realizing I could use a K6-III+ on my Socket 7 motherboard. I was able to do this on my Intel 430TX chipset Asus TX97-X motherboard with the K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83 via the patched 0112X_J2 BIOS from The Unofficial AMD K6-2/3+ Page. I was surprised that I've had zero stability issues with an 83MHz FSB even though my memory timings are set as low as possible. Paired with SetMul, this has been an extremely versatile build that runs Quake II at 92fps (640x480) while also allowing me to slow the computer for some old Sierra and Lucas Arts games. The K6-III+ also allowed me to (unnecessarily) put 256MB in the computer.

The only area where I've ran into problems is with Tomb Raider 1 which doesn't seem to like the Voodoo3 even with the Voodoo Rush patch applied. I'll make a separate thread about this, but it's definitely had me considering adding the PCX2 or Voodoo1 card back into this system for early 3D accelerated stuff since I’ll probably play anything later on my Pentium 4 system.

Anyways, here are some pictures of how it turned out:

Oh wow. Yours is damn near identical to my eldest, although you've built yours for the modern age, whereas I upgraded mine over time. I also have a K6-III+ in mine now, but I run mine safely at 2x(6x)66 for the rated 400 MHz speed. I also put a fan on my V3, but you have a bigger one. 😁 It's interesting to compare...

That's incredible how similar they are aside from small details.
- Our motherboards are almost identical. I think the X and XE models are almost the same aside from your XE also supporting EDO RAM iirc.
- That's funny that we both have Noctua fans on our PCI Voodoo3 3000 cars, but just completely different sizes.
- I honestly love the aesthetic of your period-correct case, but I just didn't have any of those lying around currently. I had a few modern Fractal cases at work and was able to bring this one home for this project.
- You even have the perfect Model M keyboard to go along with it! I'm not disappointed with my Filco mechanical PS/2 keyboard, but an original Model M would be incredible if I still owned one.

Great build and thanks for sharing!

speeddemon wrote on 2021-08-05, 00:21:

... - I honestly love the aesthetic of your period-correct case, but I just didn't have any of those lying around currently. I h […]
Show full quote

leonardo wrote on 2021-08-04, 23:59:

Oh wow. Yours is damn near identical to my eldest, although you've built yours for the modern age, whereas I upgraded mine over time. I also have a K6-III+ in mine now, but I run mine safely at 2x(6x)66 for the rated 400 MHz speed. I also put a fan on my V3, but you have a bigger one. 😁 It's interesting to compare...

...
- I honestly love the aesthetic of your period-correct case, but I just didn't have any of those lying around currently. I had a few modern Fractal cases at work and was able to bring this one home for this project.
Great build and thanks for sharing!

Yeah... this was an actual system from the time, hence the "period correctness" sort of happened at no extra charge. 😁 Nobody back then would have wanted a 5.25" floppy drive, so the build is the result of what happens when you start with something, then upgrade out of necessity, then upgrade for the sake of maxing out...

If I had to do something like this today, your set up does actually look much more elegant. You have good taste. I never thought I'd like a mix of new and old the way you've done it.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-08-04, 16:30:

Perhaps poor wording on my part. […]
Show full quote

speeddemon wrote on 2021-08-03, 18:53:

Sorry to hear you ran into issues with your ESS card. I have an ES1868F and it's a fantastic card, but I had no idea there was an ESS Vortex1 combo card.

That 68fps result is bizarrely low and sounds like the 3DNow! patch isn't working or its just using the default OpenGL driver rather than the 3dfx MiniGL driver.

Regardless, your system is a high performer given your concerns about the quality of the mobo. It never ceases to amaze me how significantly small adjustments can impact performance on these older systems.

Perhaps poor wording on my part.

It isn't a combo card, it was two cards a ESS ISA card, and a PCI Vortex 1 (Diamond Sonic Impact M90)

I suspect it is a IRQ conflict somewhere and could be resolved somehow. Just takes time.

I also thought the Quake 2 result was low. Perhaps I didn't get the patch applied correctly. I should do some more testing.

But it is a fun build nonetheless. I just really enjoy the Socket 7 era machines.

This is also eerily similar to something I already went thru, only my Vortex card was the Turtle Beach Montego A3DXtream.

I actually ended up with a setup that allows me to switch between the Vortex card's SoundBlaster emulation and the native SoundBlaster-compatible ESS ES1868 with one toggle and reboot. Vortex has nicer sound for games that utilise recorded audio whereas the ESS card has a much better/genuine sounding FM-synth for games that utilise MIDI.

I think in the end it came down to me having to remove another ISA card (NE2K ethernet I had at the time) as well as some tinkering with the BIOS (PnP settings and resource reservations for IRQ etc.). I know for a FACT, you can run the sound cards you have in perfect harmony with one another. You had a different board from the OP, though, right?

leonardo wrote on 2021-08-05, 11:42:

This is also eerily similar to something I already went thru, only my Vortex card was the Turtle Beach Montego A3DXtream.

I actually ended up with a setup that allows me to switch between the Vortex card's SoundBlaster emulation and the native SoundBlaster-compatible ESS ES1868 with one toggle and reboot. Vortex has nicer sound for games that utilise recorded audio whereas the ESS card has a much better/genuine sounding FM-synth for games that utilise MIDI.

I think in the end it came down to me having to remove another ISA card (NE2K ethernet I had at the time) as well as some tinkering with the BIOS (PnP settings and resource reservations for IRQ etc.). I know for a FACT, you can run the sound cards you have in perfect harmony with one another. You had a different board from the OP, though, right?

Yes I think that he is using a Asus board with a Intel 430fx chipset, whereas I am using crappy PC Chips m571 with the fairly solid SiS 5598 chipset.
But other than that most specs are the same.
I do suspect it is a resource conflict of some kind, but I'm not sure what.
I should add that it isn't JUST the Vortex 1 card that exhibits issues, it also happens with a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card and a cheapie CMI card as well, they aren't quite as bad however.

The only card that just works without complaint is the Creative Live 5.1 card, but it is a Dell OEM and the only drivers I can get to work are WDM and they seem to impact performance.

There are only one other PCI card in the system besides the Voodoo 3, a d-link wifi card, but removing it doesn't seem to make a difference. No other ISA cards other than the previously mentioned ESS 1868f.

I'm sure it can be resolved it will just take time.

speeddemon wrote on 2021-07-29, 07:26:

I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certai […]
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I’ve had a great time working on my first Socket 7 build in over a decade. This project started with me struggling to get certain retro games working on Windows 10. Source Ports, hacks, ScummVM, and DOSBox allowed Windows 10 to meet and even exceed my needs for a long time, but I was re-organizing and cleaning out my storage closet during the pandemic and realized I wanted to do something with many of my old/favorite parts I've held onto over the years.

I initially set out to solely assemble an overkill Pentium 4 Windows 98 system. I realized once I started posting here (thank you Joseph) that I would run into a number of issues playing older speed sensitive games. The Pentium 4 build was perfect for my late DOS and Windows early 3D accelerated games, but I now understood how I could assemble something better suited to early DOS.

After finishing my Pentium 4 build I went through my parts and found that I already had processors, memory, motherboards, graphics cards, sound cards, drives, cases, power supplies, fans, and more lying around so I figured I would probably be able to pull this off without purchasing anything new to me.

I originally was going to put together something with a Pentium MMX 233, 64MB RAM, S3 VirgeDX, Voodoo1, PCX2, and ESS ES1868F but decided to go in a different direction once I started researching things.

I eventually settled on the following:
- Asus TX97-X REV: 3.00 (Socket 7 Intel 430TX)
- K6-III+ 500 (6x83MHz)
- 256MB PC133 CL2 (2x128MB)
- 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 PCI (w/ Noctua NF-A9x14 slim case fan)
- Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32
- 80GB Intel SSD 320 (w/ Startech IDE2SAT2 adapter)
- Startech FAN3701U CPU cooler
- EVGA 500 BQ power supply
- Fractal Core 2300 case
- LaCie Electron 22blue IV CRT

I also have the following but just haven't gotten around to installing them since I haven't needed them:
- Gotek SFR1M44-U100 floppy emulator
- Intel PRO/1000 GT NIC

The cool part to me was that I only ended up needing to purchase some adapters, cables, and the Orpheus + WP32 (which is really just an awesome product I wanted to support).

The most eye-opening part of this project was realizing I could use a K6-III+ on my Socket 7 motherboard. I was able to do this on my Intel 430TX chipset Asus TX97-X motherboard with the K6-III+ 500 running at 6x83 via the patched 0112X_J2 BIOS from The Unofficial AMD K6-2/3+ Page. I was surprised that I've had zero stability issues with an 83MHz FSB even though my memory timings are set as low as possible. Paired with SetMul, this has been an extremely versatile build that runs Quake II at 92fps (640x480) while also allowing me to slow the computer for some old Sierra and Lucas Arts games. The K6-III+ also allowed me to (unnecessarily) put 256MB in the computer.

The only area where I've ran into problems is with Tomb Raider 1 which doesn't seem to like the Voodoo3 even with the Voodoo Rush patch applied. I'll make a separate thread about this, but it's definitely had me considering adding the PCX2 or Voodoo1 card back into this system for early 3D accelerated stuff since I’ll probably play anything later on my Pentium 4 system.

Anyways, here are some pictures of how it turned out:

I'm trying to do a similar build here with a TX97-X and a Voodoo 3 PCI but I'm running into an incredibly odd problem where I can't get any drivers working for the V3 EXCEPT 1.07.00 and those crash everytime I exit out of a full screen DOS game (like Keen 4). Card works fine and doesn't crash on an MVP3 AGP board and I don't think there's anything wrong with it so I'm left puzzled. I read that you use 1.04.00 drivers (they do not work for me) and I'm wondering if I'm just missing some sort of a crucial step here before installing drivers.

heckyeah wrote on 2022-03-18, 20:34:

I'm trying to do a similar build here with a TX97-X and a Voodoo 3 PCI but I'm running into an incredibly odd problem where I can't get any drivers working for the V3 EXCEPT 1.07.00 and those crash everytime I exit out of a full screen DOS game (like Keen 4). Card works fine and doesn't crash on an MVP3 AGP board and I don't think there's anything wrong with it so I'm left puzzled. I read that you use 1.04.00 drivers (they do not work for me) and I'm wondering if I'm just missing some sort of a crucial step here before installing drivers.

What is the PCI bus speed running at?

FSB 66mhz both mobos, PCI 33mhz, tried a Pentium MMX and K6-III+ and win 95 and 98.

crvs wrote on 2021-07-29, 12:07:

One of my boxes is similar, please let me couple of comments: […]
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One of my boxes is similar, please let me couple of comments:

• +1 for adding forced cooling of a Voodo3 PCI. After some uptime they really become unstable or start displaying artifacts w/o any overclocking. And it would be a pity to damage such card keeping in mind their current prises.
• ASUS 430TX boards easily work at 83MHz bus and in fact support up to 384Mb RAM (though it's undocumented). You can replace one of your DIMMs with a two-sided 256MB module if you wish (modules with the chips on one side won't work). If it won't be recognized - just switch places of the RAM sticks.

you may be referring to oje of my threads with the 384mb thing.

I’ve beat the issue to death. And it’s simply not true. While some setups can detect 384 it isn’t working properly and will crash.

430tx maxes out at 265mb you simply can not make more work with it.

430hx however has a similar thing, sometimes you can get 768 to detect, but same problem. The max is 512mb 768, 384 may work for a little while but as soon as it tries to use some of the glitched memory it crashes.

Tx max 256mb
Hx max 512mb

Repo Man11 wrote on 2021-07-29, 20:04:

My experience with trying more than 256 megabytes of memory on a TX chipset motherboard: Re: Maxing out the ram capacity on my motherboard

There it is.

At OP and New poster.

The point of this thread may be voodoo, if so by all means proceed. But if you give up, try a radeon 7500 they seem to work very well on boards like this.

heckyeah wrote on 2022-03-18, 20:47:

FSB 66mhz both mobos, PCI 33mhz, tried a Pentium MMX and K6-III+ and win 95 and 98.

Have you tried formatting and reinstalling Windows 98 from scratch?

Are you having this issue if you reboot into DOS and have you configured DOS? Phil has a great guide and tool for doing this: https://youtu.be/f52bZzWs-u4

What TX97-X board revision and BIOS version are you running?

I also run a Pentium MMX occasionally on this board/rig out of curiosity and for benchmarking and haven't had issues with the Voodoo3 with either CPU.

speeddemon wrote on 2022-03-29, 07:44:

Have you tried formatting and reinstalling Windows 98 from scratch? […]
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Have you tried formatting and reinstalling Windows 98 from scratch?

Are you having this issue if you reboot into DOS and have you configured DOS? Phil has a great guide and tool for doing this: https://youtu.be/f52bZzWs-u4

What TX97-X board revision and BIOS version are you running?

I also run a Pentium MMX occasionally on this board/rig out of curiosity and for benchmarking and haven't had issues with the Voodoo3 with either CPU.

Multiple times, yes. Win 95 and 98.

Works fine without drivers, in a VIA super socket 7 motherboard with drivers and in DOS.

Problem is with TX97-X rev 2.01 and also a P/I-XP55T2P4 rev 3.something which has a HX chipset.

My best bet is that it's something to do with how this particular card bugs out with Intel chipsets. Maybe the card is just broken in some particular way or it's a revision with an incredibly rare incompatibility. I distinctly remember running this same card fine in a VIA VPX Socket 7 board 83mhz FSB 41mhz PCI. I've also used it in 50mhz FSB 486 tests since it just works with everything. Except these two particular Intel chipset motherboards that I have.