Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-06, 22:15:

Yes here is the thread where I found the utility Wfflash (attached to first post). I was trying to figure out why my dead GF MX200 PCI worked with the Tiny Llama and no where else. There are some other utilitys that can dump VGA BIOS in DOS as well.
ELSA Synergy II -32 PCI: No VGA output - BIOS bit rot?

wfflash (flash26.exe) didn't work for me - just kept saying "Cannot find NV device".
I found this post however, that showed how you can easily dump 32KB from 0xC0000 to a file using DEBUG.EXE:

1r cs
2c000
3r cx
48000
5n video.rom
6w 0
7q

I looked at the file I got with my GD-SM750 card installed (I don't have an ASPEED card at hand) - and it's definitely not the Vortex86VGA VBIOS, I saw 'Silicon Motion' and 'SM750' and stuff in there.
So yeah... not much help, I'm afraid. Are you able to recompile the ROM file without the VBOS and retest?

I will try it later tonight hopefully, need to setup a linux machine or VM to compile the BIOS for my V1.1 board.

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-06, 23:22:

I will try it later tonight hopefully, need to setup a linux machine or VM to compile the BIOS for my V1.1 board.

I'll build it and DM you. Don't want it floating around here as it'll render systems with the Vortex86VGA module useless.

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-06, 23:27:

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-06, 23:22:

I will try it later tonight hopefully, need to setup a linux machine or VM to compile the BIOS for my V1.1 board.

I'll build it and DM you. Don't want it floating around here as it'll render systems with the Vortex86VGA module useless.

Thanks for the BIOS! Unfortunately it did not resolve the issue. Quake and Duke both freeze at 640x480. Not that I need to play them at those resolutions anyways. Maybe the DOS compatibility of the ASPEED isn't very good after all.
So I was wrong about the VGABIOS being the issue. I was also able to use NSSI dos information utility to dump the VGABIOS when VortexVGA card was installed and the ASPEED. Both look like they have the right information to me after all.

To add some additional info. I tried to use an S3 Virge card with 4MB of RAM on top of PCI-E to double the PCI slot card. Same issue and behavior here. Quake and Duke hang on resolution equal to and above 640x480.
I also measure the speed on Quake demo1, and it's the equal speed of Vortex. So CPU or bus could be the bottleneck. Additionally, I tried to boot the card with Voodoo 2, but no luck. There is no display. I could be some problem with PCI enumeration. I would like to do one more test with something like Voodoo Rush or Bunshee, but sadly I left them in Europe.

Edit: For anyone who will try this setup, you need to compile bios without VGA ROM, as I cannot boot S3 with Vortex ROM.

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-07, 00:22:

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-06, 23:27:

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-06, 23:22:

I will try it later tonight hopefully, need to setup a linux machine or VM to compile the BIOS for my V1.1 board.

I'll build it and DM you. Don't want it floating around here as it'll render systems with the Vortex86VGA module useless.

Thanks for the BIOS! Unfortunately it did not resolve the issue. Quake and Duke both freeze at 640x480. Not that I need to play them at those resolutions anyways. Maybe the DOS compatibility of the ASPEED isn't very good after all.
So I was wrong about the VGABIOS being the issue. I was also able to use NSSI dos information utility to dump the VGABIOS when VortexVGA card was installed and the ASPEED. Both look like they have the right information to me after all.

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-07, 00:22:

Thanks for the BIOS! Unfortunately it did not resolve the issue. Quake and Duke both freeze at 640x480. Not that I need to play them at those resolutions anyways. Maybe the DOS compatibility of the ASPEED isn't very good after all.

Just verified that Quake works at 640x480 on the SM750. However, it's running at single-digit fps so basically useless. Like I've said many times before, the Vortex86EX/TinyLlama is just not suited for medium-to-high-res games.

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 02:32:

Additionally, I tried to boot the card with Voodoo 2, but no luck. There is no display. I could be some problem with PCI enumeration. I would like to do one more test with something like Voodoo Rush or Bunshee, but sadly I left them in Europe.

Voodoo 2? How do you expect that to work? 😁 It requires another graphics card for 2D...?

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 02:32:

Edit: For anyone who will try this setup, you need to compile bios without VGA ROM, as I cannot boot S3 with Vortex ROM.

I still find this mystifying! From my testing with the SM750, a Nvidia TNT2 and a Voodoo 3, their respective VBIOSes are loaded and used even with the TinyLlama ROM containing the Vortex86VGA VBIOS. Weird that the S3 card doesn't work. I know other people have tried various other cards as well and got them working, also with the V86VGA VBIOS in place. ATI Rage 128, Matrox G450, S3 Virge DX, etc. Anyways, I'm sure I could hack together some kind of BIOS setting to enable and disable this VBIOS, but I'm really not sure it's worth my time right now - using the TinyLlama with a frankenstein-setup of adapters and big-ass PCI cards makes no sense from a practical perspective! With my upcoming ATX FatLlama, on the other hand... 😉

For clarification, I mentioned that the board has two PCI slots, so I had s3 and voodoo 2 simultaneously.

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-07, 09:12:

Voodoo 2? How do you expect that to work? :D It requires another graphics card for 2D...? […]
Show full quote

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 02:32:

Additionally, I tried to boot the card with Voodoo 2, but no luck. There is no display. I could be some problem with PCI enumeration. I would like to do one more test with something like Voodoo Rush or Bunshee, but sadly I left them in Europe.

Voodoo 2? How do you expect that to work? 😁 It requires another graphics card for 2D...?

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 02:32:

Edit: For anyone who will try this setup, you need to compile bios without VGA ROM, as I cannot boot S3 with Vortex ROM.

I still find this mystifying! From my testing with the SM750, a Nvidia TNT2 and a Voodoo 3, their respective VBIOSes are loaded and used even with the TinyLlama ROM containing the Vortex86VGA VBIOS. Weird that the S3 card doesn't work. I know other people have tried various other cards as well and got them working, also with the V86VGA VBIOS in place. ATI Rage 128, Matrox G450, S3 Virge DX, etc. Anyways, I'm sure I could hack together some kind of BIOS setting to enable and disable this VBIOS, but I'm really not sure it's worth my time right now - using the TinyLlama with a frankenstein-setup of adapters and big-ass PCI cards makes no sense from a practical perspective! With my upcoming ATX FatLlama, on the other hand... 😉

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 14:12:

For clarification, I mentioned that the board has two PCI slots, so I had s3 and voodoo 2 simultaneously.

Aha, yeah that makes more sense! 😀 Don't remember if I asked you this already or if you said - but which PCIe-to-PCI bridge chip is being used by your adapter?

It's based on ASMEDIA ASM1083. It was pretty cheap. Are they any better to consider?

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-07, 14:16:

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 14:12:

For clarification, I mentioned that the board has two PCI slots, so I had s3 and voodoo 2 simultaneously.

Aha, yeah that makes more sense! 😀 Don't remember if I asked you this already or if you said - but which PCIe-to-PCI bridge chip is being used by your adapter?

@sndlbn

From my testing I find the ASM1083 to be hit and miss on whether it'll work properly or not.
Like with a sound card I tried with it, it showed up in device manager OK, but a 2 second wave file played way too slooowly and took 80 seconds to play out.
I find the pericom pi7c9x111sl works well, I think there are still some on ebay.

Got it. S3 works ok, but I need more PCI cards to test. Could you point me to the exact card? I can't find any mini PCI-E to PCI on eBay.

Duffman wrote on 2023-03-07, 15:59:

@sndlbn […]
Show full quote

@sndlbn

From my testing I find the ASM1083 to be hit and miss on whether it'll work properly or not.
Like with a sound card I tried with it, it showed up in device manager OK, but a 2 second wave file played way too slooowly and took 80 seconds to play out.
I find the pericom pi7c9x111sl works well, I think there are still some on ebay.

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-07, 17:04:

Got it. S3 works ok, but I need more PCI cards to test. Could you point me to the exact card? I can't find any mini PCI-E to PCI on eBay.

I have the Startech PEX1PCI1 with the Pericom PI7C9X118 chip, and it works well. You have to use another adapter for MiniPCIe-to-PCIe though.

@sndlbn

I got this one for one of my desktop PCs https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/143648841107
I'll see if I can find a mini-pcie variant for you.

edit:

found one on amazon - https://www.amazon.com.au/Mini-Express-Adapte … r/dp/B07H911PMX

Thought I would share a link to the cards I have tested with TinyLlama, feel free to add anything to it. I still think the original vortex vga card is pretty decent for DOS era gaming and for the small TinyLlama PC is pretty much ideal.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AFhxE … dit?usp=sharing

Hi Eivind, congrat to your project, that I was just pointed.
It remembered me my old times playing with 86Duino ONE where I managed to attach a common external PCI-E VGA via x1 lines that I routed to a desoldered PCI-E slot (recompile of CB was needed): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shlirczvcwg
I was also thinking about connecting a soudcard but the crossbar seemed to me a bit tricky and was not sure if all necessary ISA signals can be routed out (including a working DMA). Then due to a lack of time I forgot about it and also later I got some PC/104 enabled SBCs so I rather playing with them (I already built Rasteri's PC/104 soudcard with CS4236B few days ago so I have a decent mini DOS system for low price)...
Now I see it IS possible, really a pleasure to see a dream came true 😀 Maybe I'll build lama too...

@RayeR: Thanks! 😀

@Aaron707: I whipped up a design for the wavetable adapter, this has room for both the pi zero 2 + the GY-PCM5102 module and the wavetable board.
Added a switch to toggle between them. I haven't received the actual S2 to test with yet, but here's where I'm at:

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-08, 11:26:

@RayeR: Thanks! :) […]
Show full quote

@RayeR: Thanks! 😀

@Aaron707: I whipped up a design for the wavetable adapter, this has room for both the pi zero 2 + the GY-PCM5102 module and the wavetable board.
Added a switch to toggle between them. I haven't received the actual S2 to test with yet, but here's where I'm at:
Screenshot 2023-03-08 at 12.12.39.png
Screenshot 2023-03-08 at 12.14.00.png

Nice, just a stupid question will two of GY-PCM5102 be needed or is it moved from the board to the adaptor?

tabm0de wrote on 2023-03-08, 15:40:

Nice, just a stupid question will two of GY-PCM5102 be needed or is it moved from the board to the adaptor?

You'll need to desolder the gy-pcm5102 from the main board and add a fresh 3-pin connector, as that's where the adapter's analog output connects to the main board's analog midi-in.

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-08, 11:26:

@RayeR: Thanks! :) […]
Show full quote

@RayeR: Thanks! 😀

@Aaron707: I whipped up a design for the wavetable adapter, this has room for both the pi zero 2 + the GY-PCM5102 module and the wavetable board.
Added a switch to toggle between them. I haven't received the actual S2 to test with yet, but here's where I'm at:
Screenshot 2023-03-08 at 12.12.39.png
Screenshot 2023-03-08 at 12.14.00.png

Very impressive! Hopefully your wave boards arrive soon!