VOGONS


First post, by buckeye

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The urge to build yet another Windows 98 unit was too great, especially with a pentium 4 cpu which I've never done.
This quite frankly was a royal "pita" involving stripped standoffs, a case too small, and a SB Live that just wanted to
make me miserable for the fun of it. In the end it worked out though, hence the specs:

Pentium 4 socket 478 2.4ghz.
Intel D865GL
512MB DDR400 (only getting 333mhz cuz of the cpu)
Quadro4 900XGL 128MB (another reason for the build)
Live! 5.1 SB0100 (strangely the install cd installed the vxd drivers w/o any options offered)
30gb IDE HD with Star Tech IDE SATA converter
Samsung DVD burner SATA
Gigabyte case (cheaply made but never used & paid only 25 bucks via FB market)
Windows 98SE of course!

2001 3DMark score: 11,996 at 1024x 768
NFS Porsche Unleashed: 75-80fps at 1024x 768

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Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Quadro4 900XGL 128MB SB Live 5.1 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 1 of 16, by Anonymous Coward

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With an avatar like mine, I guess there's no reason to ever respond to a P4 thread, right?

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 2 of 16, by Jasin Natael

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Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-04-29, 17:24:

With an avatar like mine, I guess there's no reason to ever respond to a P4 thread, right?

🤣. I'm not a big fan of the P4 either, but these days they do make a lot of sense for a cheap no nonsense 98 build.
Not everyone has access to the more period correct hardware without paying up for it.

Reply 3 of 16, by holdencars11

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They do make great 98 machines.
I mean back in the day i was all about AthlonXP, especially for the price... but I've come to appreciate P4. Its probably a combination of factors like aging Athlon motherboards, and new power supplies that aren't the best with AthlonXPs requirements, but I do appreciate that P4 is now cheap and can use a modern PSU on it.... genrally a very stable platform too.
I'm warming to P4, but I don't really want to 🤣

Ryzen5 1600AF/ASRock B450Mac/16Gb/HD7750
i7 2600K/P67A-C43/16GB/GTX560
i7 960/MSI X58 Pro/8GB/8800GTS
Athlon II x4 620/GA-M56-S3/8GB/8800GTS
Duron 1300/A7S333/512MB/MX440
6x86MX PR200/PC Chips M571/64MB/ET6000
NEC PowerMate1 268 10MHz
And another 40 rigs.

Reply 4 of 16, by SBM1

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P4s are wicked. You can get them for pennies now too, I have about 4 or 5 of them in a closet through accidental purchases.
I'm with you on the Sound Blaster Live being a nuisance, in my experience unless you track down the exact driver version that shipped on its included CD then it's constant issues.

Reply 5 of 16, by RandomStranger

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The good thing about Pentium 4 is that those are abundant. You throw a rock and it hits a P4 office PC. And the rock is also a P4 office PC. The 2.2-2.6GHz versions aren't all that hot, yet still have plenty of power for W98 stuff. Perfect for budget builds. For SB Live! I only use SB0060; SB0100 and SB0220 and never had more issues than normal for old PCs. Though my SB0100 came with its own driver CD.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 6 of 16, by Cuttoon

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I mostly ignored netburst so far.

Apart from being focused on 1990s stuff, I never quite got past the image of those to be energy hogs.
I know that's pretty irrelevant for retro gear, but still...

Only netburst machine I have is a hp/compaq dc7600 SFF. Actually a Pentium D 3 GHz, that's a dual core cedar mill.

Few years past, those were sold right off the ramp of some office building by the dozen, apparently by the admin in charge of disposing of them.
I actually wondered if those could be turned into basic budget web & word machines. All the hallmarks of a "still somewhat contemporary" PC back then: 4 GB RAM, SATA, PCIe.
And, on paper, by chipset and socket 775, they'd take core2duo CPUs. But AFAIK, HP made sure they won't...

So, with netburst CPU, no dice.

Still glad I have the token one big OEM machine - proprietary AF, true marvel of serviceability and efficient use of space and cooling.

Should I try using it? It's low profile and probably will give me all kinds of grief...

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I like jumpers.

Reply 7 of 16, by BitWrangler

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You're a big boy now, how much shit can a proprietary box give you?

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 8 of 16, by Cuttoon

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BitWrangler wrote on 2022-05-01, 22:21:

You're a big boy now, how much shit can a proprietary box give you?

Hehe, thx, but just random thoughts, the Win98 case, which to me, usually includes basic DOS capabilities:

- There are only two low profile PCI sound cards I know of with some DOS compatibility, that CT SB0410 live-but-not-really-a-live and the Hercules Muse Lt based on the CMI8738. Both don't smell of a great solution to me.
- The onboard IGP of the intel 945G chipset most likely manages to combine maximum incompatibility with minimum 3D performance.
- Gf FX5+ LP graphic cards for PCIe probably will accomplish the same with their drivers

Pure WinXP as wanted by the gods and the case sticker up front - and the license sticker out back, actually:
- Same silly question about LP graphics
- Could get the LP X-Fi xtreme gamer if that's any good, I guess.
- What would be the fun in that, apart from a really compact case of a truly evil corporation?

Plus, I'm really not to keen on recapping and those capacitors by now are all over the place...

So, I'll probably stick to PIII and Athlons as the most recent machines, for the time being, sorry. 😉

I like jumpers.

Reply 9 of 16, by speeddemon

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I like the compact tower and P4 is the ideal CPU for a Win98 build these days They're affordable, available, stable, and can run everything. Cool build!

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 10 of 16, by buckeye

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-29, 17:38:
Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-04-29, 17:24:

With an avatar like mine, I guess there's no reason to ever respond to a P4 thread, right?

🤣. I'm not a big fan of the P4 either, but these days they do make a lot of sense for a cheap no nonsense 98 build.
Not everyone has access to the more period correct hardware without paying up for it.

It's really a "redundant" build to be honest, I just wanted to do it just to scratch an itch. So far it runs win98 games
from 97-2004 pretty well. I'll probably end up selling it in the long run, retro pc's are an interest locally.

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Quadro4 900XGL 128MB SB Live 5.1 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 11 of 16, by buckeye

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Misery! Booted the system up the other day and the screen went "wonky", plus the cpu fan was roaring loud. Turned out the cpu retention bracket
busted at the clip connections. Was using the star tech cooler, maybe should have bent the clips somewhat to ease the stress? First order of
business is order a new bracket then decide on a another cooler . Have an intel one but it's fairly loud too, but looking on amazon there's not
a lot to choose from regarding the 478 socket. Stay tuned.....

Attachments

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Quadro4 900XGL 128MB SB Live 5.1 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 12 of 16, by Jasin Natael

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buckeye wrote on 2022-05-16, 21:12:
Misery! Booted the system up the other day and the screen went "wonky", plus the cpu fan was roaring loud. Turned out the cpu re […]
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Misery! Booted the system up the other day and the screen went "wonky", plus the cpu fan was roaring loud. Turned out the cpu retention bracket
busted at the clip connections. Was using the star tech cooler, maybe should have bent the clips somewhat to ease the stress? First order of
business is order a new bracket then decide on a another cooler . Have an intel one but it's fairly loud too, but looking on amazon there's not
a lot to choose from regarding the 478 socket. Stay tuned.....

I had forgotten all about those 478 coolers with the stupid 2 bars. Man I hated those things when they were new, and I'm sure I would hate them now as well.
Ditto, for the stupid push pin ones that replaced them.

Reply 13 of 16, by pentiumspeed

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Any fans with 10 to 15mm thick is noisy no matter what. There is lot of different better P4 heatsinks out there including intel. No just one type of intel heatsink you have.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 15 of 16, by buckeye

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foil_fresh wrote on 2022-05-18, 03:43:

I wanted a quieter S478 cooler so i got Thermaltake Pipe101 and slapped a 92mm noctua fan on it. close to 500gm of pure copper with a quiet fan = good times.

Can you show some pics of this? How did you install it on the socket 478 retention bracket? That thing is a "chunk" of metal!

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Quadro4 900XGL 128MB SB Live 5.1 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 16 of 16, by foil_fresh

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i can get a pic later tonight, but if i can explain poorly: they are 2 individual lever clips that act the exact same way as a stock cooler, each one has a thumb grip fold-over sections that clamp down (one goes left the other goes right) and use the 4 squared holes in the retention bracket. once the heatsink is mounted you can then screw in a fan on top. iirc you must do the fan after the cooler.

And yeah, its a big chunky cooler. I needed something really hefty as I had to cool a Prescott 3.2ghz (and the stock fan sounded like an airport).