VOGONS


First post, by speeddemon

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I had previously started the Help spec my P4 Win98 Retro Rig thread, but I'm making a dedicated post for this build now that it's complete.

The build started for me with the following goals:
- Focus on DOS games that aren't speed-sensitive games all the way up through early-2000s Windows games.
- Primarily use parts I already have in my collection. The only parts I needed to buy were some of the fans and the case.
- Keep the build as small as possible. I had a few issues fitting everything in such a tiny case, but it all worked out in the end.
- Use my GeForce 5950 Ultra since it's the fastest card I have that works with Windows 98.
- Retain native Glide support. Glad I held onto many of my Voodoo cards.
- I was a huge fan of positional audio back in the day so I wanted good support for both A3D and EAC.

Here's what I ended up assembling:
- Asus P5P800 (LGA775 Intel 865PE)
- Pentium 4 HT 670 3.8GHz (LGA775 Prescott 2M)
- Nvidia GeForce FX 5950 Ultra (Zalman FS-V7 cooler)
- 2x 3dfx Voodoo2 12MB SLI
- Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
- Aureal Vortex 2 8830 (Diamond Monster Sound MX300)
- Serdaco DreamBlaster X2GS (attached to the Aureal 8830)
- 512MB DDR400 CL2 Dual-channel RAM
- Cooler Master Elite 361 case
- Seasonic GX-650 power supply
- 3x Noctua 80mm front/back case fans (NF-A8 FLX)
- 1x Noctua 120mm x 15mm slim top case fan (NF-A12x15 FLX)
- 1x ‎Cooler Master 80mm x 10mm slim side case fan (R4-SPS-20AK-GP)
- Zalman CNPS7700-CU CPU cooler
- Roland SC-88 synth
- LaCie electron22blueIV CRT
- SATA SSD for storage
- IDE Plextor PX-760A DVD±RW drive
- Gotek SFR1M44-U100 floppy emulator

In a perfect world I would have another PCI slot so I could fit my Yamaha PCI YMF724F for OPL3 games but you can't have it all with retro PC builds. I originally thought I'd regularly swap in the YMF724F by pulling one of my Voodoo cards, but I actually end up playing all my OPL3 games on my Socket 7 build.

Also, here's the LaCie electron22blueIV CRT (basically an NEC 2070SB) and the whole desk where I'm using this computer.

Enjoy and let me know what you think!

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Last edited by speeddemon on 2022-04-24, 03:06. Edited 1 time in total.

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 1 of 20, by Joseph_Joestar

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Really nice setup. I love Notctua fans since they are so quiet and efficient. Good case airflow should keep those Voodoo2s reasonably cool. I ended up having a dedicated DOS rig as well, and keeping my most powerful retro system as Windows only.

BTW, are you dual booting with WinXP or just using Win98?

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 20, by speeddemon

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-04-24, 02:07:

Really nice setup. I love Notctua fans since they are so quiet and efficient. Good case airflow should keep those Voodoo2s reasonably cool. I ended up having a dedicated DOS rig as well, and keeping my most powerful retro system as Windows only.

BTW, are you dual booting with WinXP or just using Win98?

Thanks!

I'm only running Windows 98 on this P4 build, but would consider dual booting and possibly building "one more" retro rig as a dedicated Windows XP machine. I even have a GTX 960 and most of the stuff I'd need to pull off a separate XP build.

With that said, I'm on the fence about assembling a rig dedicated to XP since it seems like there's a narrow timeframe of games that didn't run on Windows 98 and that can't be coaxed into running well on Windows 10. Because of this, I end up using my Windows 10 rig primarily as a "retro" computer kind of like what Phil referred to in his "Windows 10 Retro Gaming PC" video.

Any recommendations?

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 3 of 20, by The Serpent Rider

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- Pentium 4 HT 670 3.8GHz (LGA775 Prescott 2M)

Meh, go Cedar Mill.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 4 of 20, by Joseph_Joestar

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-24, 02:33:

Thanks! I'm only running Windows 98 on this machine, but am considering dual booting and possibly even just building "one more" retro rig as a dedicated Windows XP machine. I actually have a GTX 960 and most of the stuff I'd need to pull it off. Any recommendations?

For the sound card, I would go with an X-Fi Titanium PCIe model SB0880. It's the latest one that still has WinXP drivers and supports all EAX versions in hardware.

I would also look for a monitor which can do 4:3 scaling so that your older games don't end up stretched to widescreen. Most pre-2005 WinXP titles don't support windscreen resolutions natively and later Nvidia drivers don't offer GPU scaling under WinXP, so having a monitor which can handle this is helpful.

Personally, I just go with a 5:4 monitor for WinXP since it's less of a hassle that way, but to each their own.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 5 of 20, by speeddemon

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:25:

- Pentium 4 HT 670 3.8GHz (LGA775 Prescott 2M)

Meh, go Cedar Mill.

I already had the Prescott chip in my collection, the system is already built, and I personally haven't had any issues with Prescott if it's in a well-ventilated case with a good cooler.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:31:

For the sound card, I would go with an X-Fi Titanium PCIe model SB0880. It's the latest one that still has WinXP drivers and supports all EAX versions in hardware.

I would also look for a monitor which can do 4:3 scaling so that your older games don't end up stretched to widescreen. Most pre-2005 WinXP titles don't support windscreen resolutions natively and later Nvidia drivers don't offer GPU scaling under WinXP, so having a monitor which can handle this is helpful. Personally, I just go with a 5:4 monitor for WinXP since it's less of a hassle that way, but to each their own.

I actually already have an X-Fi Titanium that's in my Windows 10 "Retro" build so I guess I could always pull it out of that and put in a potential Windows XP build.

I also run all these retro builds on a 4:3 CRT so scaling definitely isn't an issue!

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 6 of 20, by Joseph_Joestar

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:36:

I actually already have an X-Fi Titanium that's in my Windows 10 "Retro" build so I guess I could always pull it out of that and put in a potential Windows XP build.

Be vary of the different models though. Titanium HD doesn't have XP drivers. And Xtreme Audio varieties process EAX in software, which you want to avoid.

For me, EAX is the main draw of a WinXP rig. Later Windows versions dropped native EAX support, and wrappers like Creative's Alchemy are only compatible with a small number of games.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 7 of 20, by speeddemon

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:47:
speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:36:

I actually already have an X-Fi Titanium that's in my Windows 10 "Retro" build so I guess I could always pull it out of that and put in a potential Windows XP build.

Be vary of the different models though. Titanium HD doesn't have XP drivers. And Xtreme Audio varieties process EAX in software, which you want to avoid.

For me, EAX is the main draw of a WinXP rig. Later Windows versions dropped native EAX support, and wrappers like Creative's Alchemy are only compatible with a small number of games.

Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't realize the TiHD wasn't XP compatible.

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 8 of 20, by chinny22

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I'd probably keep things simple and not bother with XP on the P4, It'll run but really what's the point unless you wanted another XP build for gaming or something.
You definitely have all the important 9x era technology's coved, A3D, EAX, Glide, D3D
I'd also think the Socket 7 build is much better for 99.9% of dos games so no real loss of OPL here.

Also agree XP is all about EAX titles more then compatibility issues, it also allows for the really late 9x titles to have AA, AF, etc turned up to the max which the FX5990 may struggle with.

Reply 10 of 20, by speeddemon

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-04-24, 03:47:

For me, EAX is the main draw of a WinXP rig. Later Windows versions dropped native EAX support, and wrappers like Creative's Alchemy are only compatible with a small number of games.

chinny22 wrote on 2022-04-24, 11:46:

Also agree XP is all about EAX titles more then compatibility issues, it also allows for the really late 9x titles to have AA, AF, etc turned up to the max which the FX5990 may struggle with.

I'm debating skipping the optical drive so I can keep the build smaller.

How important do you feel Redbook audio is for an XP build? Were games still streaming audio directly off the CD at that point or do you think I could get away with a USB ODD or even mounting ISOs?

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 12 of 20, by Joseph_Joestar

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-24, 23:44:

How important do you feel Redbook audio is for an XP build? Were games still streaming audio directly off the CD at that point or do you think I could get away with a USB ODD or even mounting ISOs?

Game music based on CD audio tracks went out of style in the late 90s, around the time when MP3 came onto the scene.

You don't have to worry about WinXP games using Redbook audio for music.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 13 of 20, by chinny22

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I think Deamon tools supports redbook in XP anyway if you did have any games that needed it

Although personally I usually sacrifice redbook even in earlier builds for the convenience of iso's so I say go for it

Reply 14 of 20, by speeddemon

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I tried putting together a Z270 based Windows XP system over the weekend and that was a recipe for pure frustration. I mostly tried this since I already had a Z270 system assembled. I was able to get it to install XP, but I couldn't locate drivers for most devices, and it crashed after installing the NVIDIA driver for my GTX 960, so I gave up on that.

Next weekend, I'm thinking about taking one of my Z77 boards and assembling an XP system around that. I'm thinking Z77, i7-3770K, 4GB RAM, GTX 960, and X-Fi Ti. Does that seem like a good XP build?

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 15 of 20, by chrismeyer6

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:13:

I tried putting together a Z270 based Windows XP system over the weekend and that was a recipe for pure frustration. I mostly tried this since I already had a Z270 system assembled. I was able to get it to install XP, but I couldn't locate drivers for most devices, and it crashed after installing the NVIDIA driver for my GTX 960, so I gave up on that.

Next weekend, I'm thinking about taking one of my Z77 boards and assembling an XP system around that. I'm thinking Z77, i7-3770K, 4GB RAM, GTX 960, and X-Fi Ti. Does that seem like a good XP build?

That would make quite the speedy XP system with those parts.

Reply 16 of 20, by mastergamma12

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:13:

I tried putting together a Z270 based Windows XP system over the weekend and that was a recipe for pure frustration. I mostly tried this since I already had a Z270 system assembled. I was able to get it to install XP, but I couldn't locate drivers for most devices, and it crashed after installing the NVIDIA driver for my GTX 960, so I gave up on that.

Next weekend, I'm thinking about taking one of my Z77 boards and assembling an XP system around that. I'm thinking Z77, i7-3770K, 4GB RAM, GTX 960, and X-Fi Ti. Does that seem like a good XP build?

Strange, I was able to get xp running with a 1950x with ported windows 8 drivers and it runs fine.

Last edited by mastergamma12 on 2022-04-26, 19:21. Edited 1 time in total.

IKWX6Aj.png

The Tuala-Bus (My 9x/Dos Rig) (Pentium III-S 1.4ghz, AWE64G+Audigy 2 ZS, Voodoo5 5500, Chieftec Dragon Rambus)

The Final Lan Party (My Windows Xp/7 rig) (Core i7 980x, GTX 480,DFI Lanparty UT X58-T3eH8,)

Reply 17 of 20, by speeddemon

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mastergamma12 wrote on 2022-04-26, 10:02:
speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:13:

I tried putting together a Z270 based Windows XP system over the weekend and that was a recipe for pure frustration. I mostly tried this since I already had a Z270 system assembled. I was able to get it to install XP, but I couldn't locate drivers for most devices, and it crashed after installing the NVIDIA driver for my GTX 960, so I gave up on that.

Next weekend, I'm thinking about taking one of my Z77 boards and assembling an XP system around that. I'm thinking Z77, i7-3770K, 4GB RAM, GTX 960, and X-Fi Ti. Does that seem like a good XP build?

Strange, I was able to get xp running of a 1950x with ported windows 8 drivers and it runs fine.

How did you port the drivers?

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10

Reply 18 of 20, by mastergamma12

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speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-26, 17:57:
mastergamma12 wrote on 2022-04-26, 10:02:
speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:13:

I tried putting together a Z270 based Windows XP system over the weekend and that was a recipe for pure frustration. I mostly tried this since I already had a Z270 system assembled. I was able to get it to install XP, but I couldn't locate drivers for most devices, and it crashed after installing the NVIDIA driver for my GTX 960, so I gave up on that.

Next weekend, I'm thinking about taking one of my Z77 boards and assembling an XP system around that. I'm thinking Z77, i7-3770K, 4GB RAM, GTX 960, and X-Fi Ti. Does that seem like a good XP build?

Strange, I was able to get xp running of a 1950x with ported windows 8 drivers and it runs fine.

How did you port the drivers?

Ended up using a modified version of XP.

IKWX6Aj.png

The Tuala-Bus (My 9x/Dos Rig) (Pentium III-S 1.4ghz, AWE64G+Audigy 2 ZS, Voodoo5 5500, Chieftec Dragon Rambus)

The Final Lan Party (My Windows Xp/7 rig) (Core i7 980x, GTX 480,DFI Lanparty UT X58-T3eH8,)

Reply 19 of 20, by speeddemon

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mastergamma12 wrote on 2022-04-26, 19:21:
speeddemon wrote on 2022-04-26, 17:57:
mastergamma12 wrote on 2022-04-26, 10:02:

Strange, I was able to get xp running of a 1950x with ported windows 8 drivers and it runs fine.

How did you port the drivers?

Ended up using a modified version of XP.

That worked for me too. I followed your signature links to this page which links to a modified version of Windows XP POSReady 2009: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Optional+P … rator+script%22

I now have Windows XP running stable on my Z270 with USB3 and Ethernet (via USB Ethernet adapter). I'm still going to try my Z77 board this weekend since I'd prefer to be on a board that doesn't have additional unrecognized devices, but this was interesting/cool to figure out.

PC#1: K6-3+ 500 / Asus TX97-X / Voodoo3 / Orpheus + PCMIDI + WP32 / Win98
PC#2: P4 HT 670 / Asus P5P800 / FX5950U + V2 SLI / Audigy 2ZS + Vortex2 + X2GS / Win98
PC#3: i7-3770K / Asus P8Z77-V Pro / TITAN X / X-Fi / WinXP
PC#4: i9-9900K / Gigabyte Z390M / GTX 1070 / X-Fi Ti HD + SC-88 / Win10