There's Lost Vikings, Micro Machines, the Pinball games, Frontier: Elite II (Might not do high detail) Mortal Kombat,

If you were trying to resell, I'd whack a DX2-66 and a GL-5428/29/30/34 VLB in it.

8MB and DX-2 then Doom 2 and ROTT get smoother, Duke 3D is doable in reduced screen size.

I stumbled on a monitor befitting of this machine (did not want to go the LCD-route, or assign a clearly way too big/modern CRT)!

It's a Packard Bell PB8528SVEL made in 1992:

It works surprisingly well given its age, but does show some symptoms depending on resolution or image location. I've only tested DOS non-VESA/non-SVGA modes so far, but for example at 640x480 you can clearly tell a couple of lines at the top of the image are cut, and there is a minor lightening or distortion of color that follows the top edge. This does not disappear regardless of the image height adjustment or vertical location adjustment.

Around the back we have these phase adjustment dials (which I don't remember ever seeing before), but as we are below 800x600 and 1024x768, they didn't seem to affect anything:

Do you guys think that this might be an easy fix, or should I just leave the monitor as is?

p.s. No, that is not Windows 95, but Windows 3.1 with the Calmira II-shell. 😀

chinny22 wrote on 2022-05-18, 14:26:

The MSI MS-4132G only supports 5V CPU's later 486's are 3.3 volts Dx50 is about as good as you can go unless you find a Pentium Overdrive.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-18, 14:44:

That thing should take a DX2-66 without issues.

I found a 66 MHz DX2 (SX911) on sale at a local auction, but I'm a little confused; The instructions here state that a 66 MHz chip would be fine, but the board itself only lists CPU options up to 50 MHz:

Also, it would appear that the jumper settings for the 33 MHz part and the 66 MHz part are identical. Can this be the case? I know many times motherboards have undocumented settings and/or future support that doesn't get listed so that makes me hopeful.

Edit: Also, if the 66 MHz chip is supported - do I want to run the ISA BUS at a certain multiplier or speed? The supposed internal clock-doubling of the 80486 CPUs makes this a little confusing for me - am I setting 1/4 as the 66 MHz chip behaves like a 33 MHz one externally, or do I actually have to set to 1/8?

That printed clock rates is the external FSB (front side bus).
The DX2 uses an internal PLL (phase-locked loop) to double the FSB to an internal clock rate. So it has 66 MHz internal and 33 MHz external. This is often printed as 66i MHz.
The FSB needs to be divided to get a suitable ISA BUS clock frequency. It should be around 8 or 8,33 MHz. For a 33 MHz FSB you should select CLK/4 in your BIOS setup.

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 09:57:

That printed clock rates is the external FSB (front side bus).
The DX2 uses an internal PLL (phase-locked loop) to double the FSB to an internal clock rate. So it has 66 MHz internal and 33 MHz external. This is often printed as 66i MHz.
The FSB needs to be divided to get a suitable ISA BUS clock frequency. It should be around 8 or 8,33 MHz. For a 33 MHz FSB you should select CLK/4 in your BIOS setup.

Wow. You are right - these are FSB settings! How'd I miss that... and I'm also shocked a system this old will do 50 MHz FSB, although I guess I shouldn't be, if Pentium-systems are typically go at 66 MHz...

Anyway, this makes sense. Both the 33 MHz DX and 66 MHz DX2 would use a 33 MHz FSB.

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing.
Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one onboard device without slot.
But it seems that a shift by 1 will work in most cases. A shift by 2 is good for headaches.
However, 3 slots and 50 MHz... don't try this 😉

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 10:44:

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing. Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one […]
Show full quote

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing.
Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one onboard device without slot.
But it seems that a shift by 1 will work in most cases. A shift by 2 is good for headaches.
However, 3 slots and 50 MHz... don't try this 😉

Hmm... I'm currently running a multi-I/O-board, a video card, and a sound card. Will I be pushing my luck if I wanted to add networking? 😉

I would add the network card. Transferring files over your network is so much easier and more convenient than floppies, burning CDs, or even CF/SD cards. And you can for fun go online and poke around

leonardo wrote on 2022-05-31, 13:46:

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 10:44:

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing. Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one […]
Show full quote

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing.
Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one onboard device without slot.
But it seems that a shift by 1 will work in most cases. A shift by 2 is good for headaches.
However, 3 slots and 50 MHz... don't try this 😉

Hmm... I'm currently running a multi-I/O-board, a video card, and a sound card. Will I be pushing my luck if I wanted to add networking? 😉

Oh I forgot to mention that just cards with the VLB connector count in this calculation.

A bit late to the party, but I think upgrading is a good idea.
I upgraded my 486 machine from a Dx2-66 to a DX-4 100, and then finally to a Cyrix 5x86 120GP.
Notable performance with each upgrade.

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 15:01:

leonardo wrote on 2022-05-31, 13:46:

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 10:44:

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing. Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one […]
Show full quote

50 MHz on a VLB machine is a thing.
Basically the rule is 25 MHz = 3 slots, 33 MHz = 2 slots, 40 MHz = 1 slot, 50 MHz = just one onboard device without slot.
But it seems that a shift by 1 will work in most cases. A shift by 2 is good for headaches.
However, 3 slots and 50 MHz... don't try this 😉

Hmm... I'm currently running a multi-I/O-board, a video card, and a sound card. Will I be pushing my luck if I wanted to add networking? 😉

Oh I forgot to mention that just cards with the VLB connector count in this calculation.

This is good to know. I would likely only possibly upgrade to a VLB graphics card, as the I/O- and sound cards not to mention ethernet should be perfectly happy on regular ol' ISA.

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-31, 13:50:

I would add the network card. Transferring files over your network is so much easier and more convenient than floppies, burning CDs, or even CF/SD cards. And you can for fun go online and poke around

I agree 100%. Usually for this reason I don't bother with USB on later systems. Networking is just so much more convenient. I may have to wait a bit though, as the once plentiful ISA ethernet adapters have gone from "here's a box of them for free" to "special and rare, buy for 25€ + shipping".

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-05-31, 15:36:

A bit late to the party, but I think upgrading is a good idea.
I upgraded my 486 machine from a Dx2-66 to a DX-4 100, and then finally to a Cyrix 5x86 120GP.
Notable performance with each upgrade.

The party's just getting started, come on in! 😉

Anyway, yes - increases in clock speed in the 90's felt much more significant than ever since. Going from 16 - 25 MHz is a huge leap, as is going from - say 40 to 66.

I'm still in the middle of testing (subjective tests only, not benchmarks), but I am surprised at how potent even the 33 MHz DX is... It runs C&C at an acceptable, if not great frame rate. The only place where I notice the age of the system (so far) is scrolling the map, which is clearly laggy.

Will have to test DooM and some other games, while I figure out the sound card config and everything having to do with memory optimization (I had forgotten about all the fun that config.sys and autoexec.bat provide)...

leonardo wrote on 2022-05-31, 16:21:

The only place where I notice the age of the system (so far) is scrolling the map, which is clearly laggy.

ISA graphics card? No wonder.

50Mhz on VLB, with i/o and video... first you find an I/O card that runs on 40Mhz 0ws on it's own, then you find a VGA card that runs 40 Mhz 0ws with it, then you run them on 50Mhz 1ws and 60mhz 1ws if you crap leprechauns.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-06-01, 02:59:

50Mhz on VLB, with i/o and video... first you find an I/O card that runs on 40Mhz 0ws on it's own, then you find a VGA card that runs 40 Mhz 0ws with it, then you run them on 50Mhz 1ws and 60mhz 1ws if you crap leprechauns.

Well I better get my stool examined in that case. 🤣

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:00:

leonardo wrote on 2022-05-31, 16:21:

The only place where I notice the age of the system (so far) is scrolling the map, which is clearly laggy.

ISA graphics card? No wonder.

Would a Cirrus Logic CLVGA542XVL/H be a good VLB-card for some ~25€? Seems very cheap after basically everything I've encountered so far is $50-60 minimum without shipping. Seems suspicious even.

Much better than your Trident 8900 - if it works.

They are very implementation dependent, within a few percent of the best VLB cards or few percent of indifferent middle ones. A clue, is what RAM speed they put on it, 80ns they didn't care, 70ns could be okay, 60ns, they were trying... even though they don't really need that speed at stock.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-05-24, 14:01:

If you were trying to resell, I'd whack a DX2-66 and a GL-5428/29/30/34 VLB in it.

Disruptor wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:00:

leonardo wrote on 2022-05-31, 16:21:

The only place where I notice the age of the system (so far) is scrolling the map, which is clearly laggy.

ISA graphics card? No wonder.

OK, I went ahead and ordered the Cirrus Logic GL-542XVL/H! I sought some benchmarks and this card should be on the mid-end or upper mid-end based on what I saw. Will be interesting to see if it makes a difference before the CPU is upgraded...

Yes, and please post a photograph of your graphics card.

Disruptor wrote on 2022-06-04, 17:22:

Yes, and please post a photograph of your graphics card.

It's here! So far POSTed successfully, only didn't get to games testing yet because I went and also plugged in a 3Com EtherLink III NIC and it done futzed up the sound card resources somehow...