VOGONS


Reply 360 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
valterb wrote on 2024-01-14, 23:57:

That was it: The BIOS setting was suddenly disabled and the intensity was set to 5%. Enabling the LED fixed that problem. I'll keep using this firmware and let you know if I have any problems.

Cool, thanks for testing!

valterb wrote on 2024-01-14, 23:57:

Some more good news: This SATA to IDE drive adapter on Amazon works with CD drives in the BIOS and DOS: SinLoon IDE to SATA Converter, 150Mbps 2 in 1 SATA to IDE Adapter Converter Chip Cable Connector for DVD/CD/HDD (Red)

I haven't tried it in Windows yet, but DOS sees the drive and I was able to install Earth 2140 from CD. As a bonus, CD audio works great with the IDE drive I tested. If someone wants to use an oldschool internal IDE drive for games with CD audio, this is an option that seems to work.

Note: I found that it only worked with the drive's jumper set to master.

That's great! I'm sure this is right up many people's alley! 👏

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 361 of 481, by valterb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I was able to get ethernet working in MS-DOS with the NDIS driver included in the NET folder of the DuinOS git repo and the lines in its fdconfig.sys and autoexec.bat files:

CONFIG.SYS

DEVICE=C:\NET\Protman.Dos /i:C:\NET\R6040
DEVICE=C:\NET\dis_pkt.dos
DEVICE=C:\NET\R6040\RDCPCI.dos

AUTOEXEC.BAT

C:\NET\NETBIND.COM

I was then able to use the mTCP suite configured to interrupt vector 0x62 to get an IP address from DHCP and ping some addresses.

Reply 362 of 481, by Aaron707

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-14, 10:42:
I have tried many AGP graphics cards. From ATI, S3 to Nvidia. […]
Show full quote

I have tried many AGP graphics cards. From ATI, S3 to Nvidia.

Geforce 4 440MX
GeForce 2 TI 64MB
Riva TNT 2, 64 and 32MB
Riva Vanda 16MB
Radeon 9550SE 128MB
Radeon 7500 64MB
....

None of these cards were able to run at 100%. BIOS finds the card, VGA works but as soon as I install the drivers (from philscomputerlab or CD driver) the installation goes through but after reboot this happens:

1. Windows 98 SE boots fine but Windows writes that the card "The card is not working properly".
2, Windows boots fine but I'm still in VGA and the Display is Unkown Monitor on Unkown Device. And in System Properties it has a yellow exclamation point.
3. Windows 98 SE keeps rebooting over and over again when booting.

I have tried many drivers and different card installs but it always ends up the same.

The only cards that work are S3 and ATI Rage II (4mb), but they don't handle 3D very well.

Finally got my board installed in a case and Windows 98SE loaded (MicroSD). All the device drivers are fine except the Geforce2 MX I tried. When I first run the original setup CD for the card. I get an error: Your graphics board has not been assigned with an IRQ. Refer to the manual for more information. And after reboot, sure enough windows complains with same error "The card is not working properly". If you check device resources, it does not show an interrupt at all for the card. I tried three different versions of AGP and PCI drivers for 95 through ME . Results were the same. I do have a Radeon 9250 on the way to try, so that is likely the best bet for now.

Reply 363 of 481, by valterb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-14, 10:42:

Geforce 4 440MX

3. Windows 98 SE keeps rebooting over and over again when booting.

I'm using this card and I'm getting this result when I install the Nvidia 45.23 driver. It'd be a shame if I can't get it to work in Windows, seeing as how it's a passively-cooled low-profile card that fits nicely in a tiny case.

EDIT: Same results with 31.40 and 56.64 drivers. Before I tried installing drivers, I tried setting the card to use the "Super VGA" generic driver and even then it refused to enter any modes besides 640x480 16-color. I'm wondering if Nvdia cards just don't like the PCIe/PCI/AGP setup on this board.

Reply 364 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
valterb wrote on 2024-01-16, 03:45:
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-14, 10:42:

Geforce 4 440MX

3. Windows 98 SE keeps rebooting over and over again when booting.

I'm using this card and I'm getting this result when I install the Nvidia 45.23 driver. It'd be a shame if I can't get it to work in Windows, seeing as how it's a passively-cooled low-profile card that fits nicely in a tiny case.

EDIT: Same results with 31.40 and 56.64 drivers. Before I tried installing drivers, I tried setting the card to use the "Super VGA" generic driver and even then it refused to enter any modes besides 640x480 16-color. I'm wondering if Nvdia cards just don't like the PCIe/PCI/AGP setup on this board.

I seem to recall having used the GeForce4 Ti4200 a few months ago without issues, I'll try firing it up later today and see what I get.

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 365 of 481, by valterb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-16, 10:13:

I seem to recall having used the GeForce4 Ti4200 a few months ago without issues, I'll try firing it up later today and see what I get.

When you go to check it again, can you share what version of the driver you're using? I can try again with a fresh Windows install and use the same driver to see if that helps.

I tried a whole pile of other cards last night, mostly Nvidia, and only a Radeon 9200 SE and Voodoo 3 2000 worked for me.

Reply 366 of 481, by doogie

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I confirm a Voodoo3 AGP card works fine. Performance is not what I'd call incredible (score of 701 in 3DMark 99), but comparing vs the megathread it seems roughly in line with what a Pentium 233 can do; so, as advertised.

Reply 367 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
valterb wrote on 2024-01-16, 15:22:
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-16, 10:13:

I seem to recall having used the GeForce4 Ti4200 a few months ago without issues, I'll try firing it up later today and see what I get.

When you go to check it again, can you share what version of the driver you're using? I can try again with a fresh Windows install and use the same driver to see if that helps.

I tried a whole pile of other cards last night, mostly Nvidia, and only a Radeon 9200 SE and Voodoo 3 2000 worked for me.

Sorry, I must have misremembered - I could not get my GF4 Ti4200 working in Win98 today. I tried drivers 29.42, 66.94, 77.72 and 81.98. The first two resulted in automatic reboot during startup, the second two halted with "Windows Protection Error". I guess either the Nvidia drivers must be assuming some kind of AGP feature is present (which it isn't, this is running in "pure" PCI mode, as we know) - OR there's some kind of resource conflict perhaps.
If someone with mad driver skills wants to give this a shot, then knock yourself out! 😀 Otherwise, for the time being, looks like we'll have to stick with Radeons or Voodoo cards.

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 369 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-16, 23:38:

But it is interesting that PCI cards from Nvidia work great on VEX-SOM. Unfortunately, there are not many of them and they are many times more expensive so there is not much point in dealing with it.

What system are you referring to exactly? The SOM (VEX-SOM/86Duino/Vortex86EX) we're using doesn't support PCI cards directly, only PCIe - you have to go through a PCI-to-PCIe bridge. In any case, the actual PCI protocol is used over both electrical standards. Like I said before, my guess is that the Nvidia drivers expect the actual AGP protocol/signal additions to the PCI protocol to be there, and they aren't. Either that or they're using some sort of IO/memory resource allocations that don't play well with what Coreboot/SeaBIOS sets up.

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 370 of 481, by Duffman

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

@eivind

If you still have the PCI prototype, try a PCI geforce4 and see if that works correctly?

MB: ASRock B550 Steel Legend
CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X
RAM: Corsair 64GB Kit (4x16GB) DDR4 Veng LPX C18 4000MHz
SSDs: 2x Crucial MX500 1TB SATA + 1x Samsung 980 (non-pro) 1TB NVMe SSD
OSs: Win 11 Pro (NVMe) + WinXP Pro SP3 (SATA)
GPU: RTX2070 (11) GT730 (XP)

Reply 371 of 481, by Vridek

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-16, 23:49:
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-16, 23:38:

But it is interesting that PCI cards from Nvidia work great on VEX-SOM. Unfortunately, there are not many of them and they are many times more expensive so there is not much point in dealing with it.

What system are you referring to exactly? The SOM (VEX-SOM/86Duino/Vortex86EX) we're using doesn't support PCI cards directly, only PCIe - you have to go through a PCI-to-PCIe bridge. In any case, the actual PCI protocol is used over both electrical standards. Like I said before, my guess is that the Nvidia drivers expect the actual AGP protocol/signal additions to the PCI protocol to be there, and they aren't. Either that or they're using some sort of IO/memory resource allocations that don't play well with what Coreboot/SeaBIOS sets up.

Tested on a prototype. Pictured is a Geforce 6200 256MB graphics card, the 3D image worked great but the game support is poor. The graphics are too new for old games.

Attachments

  • board.png
    Filename
    board.png
    File size
    387.84 KiB
    Views
    954 views
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 372 of 481, by janih

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

How are you cooling the SOM-128-ex module? It gets quite hot. I noticed that in Vridek's photo the cpu module is "naked" and a heatsink on the cpu core. Are you removing the blue "cover plate" thing to add better heatsink or just blowing air over the standard module?

I placed an old socket 7 cooler block on top of the cpu module. It seems to be transferring heat quite well too, but I was thinking that maybe there are better ways to cool this.

Attachments

  • SOM-128-EX.png
    Filename
    SOM-128-EX.png
    File size
    481.19 KiB
    Views
    881 views
    File comment
    SOM-128EX
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 373 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
janih wrote on 2024-01-17, 08:54:

How are you cooling the SOM-128-ex module? It gets quite hot. I noticed that in Vridek's photo the cpu module is "naked" and a heatsink on the cpu core. Are you removing the blue "cover plate" thing to add better heatsink or just blowing air over the standard module?

I placed an old socket 7 cooler block on top of the cpu module. It seems to be transferring heat quite well too, but I was thinking that maybe there are better ways to cool this.

The SOM (with the blue heatspreader) is designed to run in an industrial environment at 300 MHz. It does get hot, but it can handle it.
If you run it at 500 MHz, it's probably a good idea to either/or attach a better heatsink or a fan.
I've used these heatsinks from Digikey, they come with a adhesive thermal pad and work great. Also, since you have plenty of support for modern PWM fans on the board, take your pick and let it run at its lowest rpm - should be more than enough.

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 374 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-17, 03:02:
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-16, 23:49:

What system are you referring to exactly? The SOM (VEX-SOM/86Duino/Vortex86EX) we're using doesn't support PCI cards directly, only PCIe - you have to go through a PCI-to-PCIe bridge. In any case, the actual PCI protocol is used over both electrical standards. Like I said before, my guess is that the Nvidia drivers expect the actual AGP protocol/signal additions to the PCI protocol to be there, and they aren't. Either that or they're using some sort of IO/memory resource allocations that don't play well with what Coreboot/SeaBIOS sets up.

Tested on a prototype. Pictured is a Geforce 6200 256MB graphics card, the 3D image worked great but the game support is poor. The graphics are too new for old games.

Is this your prototype?

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC

Reply 375 of 481, by Vridek

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
janih wrote on 2024-01-17, 08:54:

How are you cooling the SOM-128-ex module? It gets quite hot. I noticed that in Vridek's photo the cpu module is "naked" and a heatsink on the cpu core. Are you removing the blue "cover plate" thing to add better heatsink or just blowing air over the standard module?

I placed an old socket 7 cooler block on top of the cpu module. It seems to be transferring heat quite well too, but I was thinking that maybe there are better ways to cool this.

It is only a prototype with the BIOS from ICOP, where the processor is not so overclocked. ITX LIama is cooled by a fan, because as soon as I start Half Life 1 the passive cooling does not keep up.I shed a tear when after so many years I could play the original half life on Windows98 😀

Reply 376 of 481, by Vridek

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-17, 10:48:
The SOM (with the blue heatspreader) is designed to run in an industrial environment at 300 MHz. It does get hot, but it can han […]
Show full quote
janih wrote on 2024-01-17, 08:54:

How are you cooling the SOM-128-ex module? It gets quite hot. I noticed that in Vridek's photo the cpu module is "naked" and a heatsink on the cpu core. Are you removing the blue "cover plate" thing to add better heatsink or just blowing air over the standard module?

I placed an old socket 7 cooler block on top of the cpu module. It seems to be transferring heat quite well too, but I was thinking that maybe there are better ways to cool this.

The SOM (with the blue heatspreader) is designed to run in an industrial environment at 300 MHz. It does get hot, but it can handle it.
If you run it at 500 MHz, it's probably a good idea to either/or attach a better heatsink or a fan.
I've used these heatsinks from Digikey, they come with a adhesive thermal pad and work great. Also, since you have plenty of support for modern PWM fans on the board, take your pick and let it run at its lowest rpm - should be more than enough.

VEX-SOM is set to 400Mhz but even so it is very low.

Reply 377 of 481, by Vridek

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-17, 10:56:
Vridek wrote on 2024-01-17, 03:02:
Eivind wrote on 2024-01-16, 23:49:

What system are you referring to exactly? The SOM (VEX-SOM/86Duino/Vortex86EX) we're using doesn't support PCI cards directly, only PCIe - you have to go through a PCI-to-PCIe bridge. In any case, the actual PCI protocol is used over both electrical standards. Like I said before, my guess is that the Nvidia drivers expect the actual AGP protocol/signal additions to the PCI protocol to be there, and they aren't. Either that or they're using some sort of IO/memory resource allocations that don't play well with what Coreboot/SeaBIOS sets up.

Tested on a prototype. Pictured is a Geforce 6200 256MB graphics card, the 3D image worked great but the game support is poor. The graphics are too new for old games.

Is this your prototype?

There are several people working on the project, it's not a one man show. You're a genius if you can do so many things at once!!! We're looking for the perfect solution for playing old games. Unfortunately, it's still out of sight.
In any case, if PCI works then AGP must work too. Just have to find the bug.

Reply 378 of 481, by radivx

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

For those interested in a compatible Retro Case for the Llama ITX

I changed up my plans a bit and started remixing a fully 3d printable ITX case:
https://www.printables.com/model/727411-macas … e-boy-s-edition

My first contribution is the front. I will slowly replace all the parts to be more authentic towards the Macase KS-330, including the black LED and 7 Segment area.
I am in dialogue with Eivind regarding my project so might be possible to control the 7 segment directly through the BIOS at some point.

Attachments

  • IMG_4111.jpeg
    Filename
    IMG_4111.jpeg
    File size
    1.2 MiB
    Views
    695 views
    File comment
    Macase KS-330 - Fat Boy S Edition
    File license
    CC-BY-4.0

Reply 379 of 481, by Eivind

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
radivx wrote on 2024-01-19, 15:40:
For those interested in a compatible Retro Case for the Llama ITX […]
Show full quote

For those interested in a compatible Retro Case for the Llama ITX

I changed up my plans a bit and started remixing a fully 3d printable ITX case:
https://www.printables.com/model/727411-macas … e-boy-s-edition

My first contribution is the front. I will slowly replace all the parts to be more authentic towards the Macase KS-330, including the black LED and 7 Segment area.
I am in dialogue with Eivind regarding my project so might be possible to control the 7 segment directly through the BIOS at some point.

That is sooo nice! I'll definitely print one of these later at some point! If you find/decide on a suitable I2C-controlled 7-segment LED component, I'll happily add support for that (using the onboard I2C pins on the board) in the BIOS. If you go with a three-digit variant, we could show the current clock speed there?

The LlamaBlaster sound card
ITX-Llama motherboard
TinyLlama SBC