VOGONS


First post, by PcBytes

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As the title says, it's a 775 build made out of nearly stuff that was ready for the scrappers if no one bought them.

MB: ASUS P5Q Deluxe
PSU: LC-Power LC6550H v2.2 550W
Case: Techsolo TC10-SR (green)
CPU: Core 2 Quad Q9400
HDD: Western Digital 640GB WD6400AAKS
GPU: Radeon R7 265/HD7850 2GB GDDR5
ODD: Pioneer DVD-106SZ PATA + Optiarc AD-7200S SATA
OS: Windows 10 Enterprise IoT, planning on multi-booting 7 and XP in the future

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"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 2 of 18, by Trashbytes

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H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-05-31, 06:00:

System RAM? 😀

P5Q Deluxe is P45 DDR2, so likely 4 or 8 Gb, 4 is highly likely if its an XP only build but with Win10 I'm guessing its 8 Gb. 16Gb is possible but would be horribly expensive unless you can find single bank 4Gb DDR2 desktop sticks at reasonable prices, I would love to hear it is though as that would be a rather unique for a Core2 build.

-Would need to find Intel compatible unbuffered 4Gb DDR2 single bank sticks, back in the day I don't remember if any were made, I know AMD ones exist but they don't work in Intel P45 boards.

Reply 3 of 18, by PcBytes

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Whoops, forgot the RAM 🤣, it's 6GB. 2x2GB + 2x1GB. 10 Enterprise runs prrtty snappy even on that much RAM.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 4 of 18, by Trashbytes

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PcBytes wrote on 2023-05-31, 07:25:

Whoops, forgot the RAM 🤣, it's 6GB. 2x2GB + 2x1GB. 10 Enterprise runs prrtty snappy even on that much RAM.

Unusual ram config but I like it!, have you tried Tiny10 or Tiny11 on it ?

I bet the anti bloat versions would run even faster ! not sure how compatible they are on older hardware though.

Reply 5 of 18, by bZbZbZ

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Trashbytes wrote on 2023-05-31, 07:30:
PcBytes wrote on 2023-05-31, 07:25:

Whoops, forgot the RAM 🤣, it's 6GB. 2x2GB + 2x1GB. 10 Enterprise runs prrtty snappy even on that much RAM.

Unusual ram config but I like it!, have you tried Tiny10 or Tiny11 on it ?

I bet the anti bloat versions would run even faster ! not sure how compatible they are on older hardware though.

Windows 10 IOT Enterprise is already impressively stripped down. No Cortana, basically no preinstalled apps except for Microsoft Edge and the Win7 era stuff (notepad, paint, etc). Automatic Updates can be disabled in the group policy editor, but Microsoft will support it with security updates until January 2032!!

I'd take Win10 IOT over Tiny10/11 any day of the week...

Reply 6 of 18, by Trashbytes

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bZbZbZ wrote on 2023-06-01, 02:25:
Trashbytes wrote on 2023-05-31, 07:30:
PcBytes wrote on 2023-05-31, 07:25:

Whoops, forgot the RAM 🤣, it's 6GB. 2x2GB + 2x1GB. 10 Enterprise runs prrtty snappy even on that much RAM.

Unusual ram config but I like it!, have you tried Tiny10 or Tiny11 on it ?

I bet the anti bloat versions would run even faster ! not sure how compatible they are on older hardware though.

Windows 10 IOT Enterprise is already impressively stripped down. No Cortana, basically no preinstalled apps except for Microsoft Edge and the Win7 era stuff (notepad, paint, etc). Automatic Updates can be disabled in the group policy editor, but Microsoft will support it with security updates until January 2032!!

I'd take Win10 IOT over Tiny10/11 any day of the week...

IOT version I'm guessing is the Internet of Things embedded one ?

Reply 7 of 18, by PcBytes

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Pretty much. IoT LTSC is what it calls itself in the setup page.

I can also say that 11 is pleasant to run - once you do the following:

-disable TPM and unneeded junk requirements through Rufus 4.0 before creating the install media
-install StartAllBack + Retrobar
-install XP sounds

Have done this more than twice, made my 11 installs run really fast. Sold one of the laptops (a Haswell based Clevo W650SH) with such a 11 Enterprise install - it ran absolutely beautiful, even more so on the LG 32LB5610 TV I bought (which really paid itself off after replacing the LED strips).

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 8 of 18, by chinny22

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Your scrap build is better then mine.

CPU: Intel Dual Core E5200 2.50 Ghz
RAM: 4GB Corsair Value Select DDR2 667
GPU: Radeon HD3450 256MB
HDD: 256GB SATA (WD2500-JS)
DVD+RW
Case: In Win C583
OS: WinXP

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Graphics card is definitely holding it back but played a good number of my games ok
It's curranty on ebay for £1 collection only.... and no bids.
I've found a box I can ship in in now so hoping it goes next round, otherwise it IS off to scrap (Originally I tried selling the parts with a £1 starting price but still no interest)

Reply 9 of 18, by gerry

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chinny22 wrote on 2023-06-01, 12:22:
Your scrap build is better then mine. […]
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Your scrap build is better then mine.

CPU: Intel Dual Core E5200 2.50 Ghz
RAM: 4GB Corsair Value Select DDR2 667
GPU: Radeon HD3450 256MB
HDD: 256GB SATA (WD2500-JS)
DVD+RW
Case: In Win C583
OS: WinXP

Front.jpg

Graphics card is definitely holding it back but played a good number of my games ok
It's curranty on ebay for £1 collection only.... and no bids.
I've found a box I can ship in in now so hoping it goes next round, otherwise it IS off to scrap (Originally I tried selling the parts with a £1 starting price but still no interest)

looks fine to me, hopefully if not sold then adding shipping will prompt someone in the next run considering that low price!

i like these 775 type builds, nothing needs to be optimal for them to do just fine with all kinds of games up to mid 2000's and bit later

i have a small amount of PCs from this era

Reply 10 of 18, by PcBytes

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chinny22 wrote on 2023-06-01, 12:22:
Your scrap build is better then mine. […]
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Your scrap build is better then mine.

CPU: Intel Dual Core E5200 2.50 Ghz
RAM: 4GB Corsair Value Select DDR2 667
GPU: Radeon HD3450 256MB
HDD: 256GB SATA (WD2500-JS)
DVD+RW
Case: In Win C583
OS: WinXP

Front.jpg

Graphics card is definitely holding it back but played a good number of my games ok
It's curranty on ebay for £1 collection only.... and no bids.
I've found a box I can ship in in now so hoping it goes next round, otherwise it IS off to scrap (Originally I tried selling the parts with a £1 starting price but still no interest)

I think I can pull off a similar machine, except with 2GB of DDR400. I have a P5PE-VM, HD3450 AGP, 250GB drive (Samsung tho), and the case would probably be one of those no-name JNC/Deer cases, or something similar.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 11 of 18, by gnn

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Hey, l am a noob here.

I was able to put this system together using Loew's patches, Phil's awesome videos and website, and the know-how and content contained within the Vogons community. Thank you guys!

Scavenging around, i put some parts together and purchased a voodoo 3 and sb0100 card to build the following.

P5Q deluxe build (S775, p45, ICH10). It is running a Q9650 @ 3.6 Ghz with 8 gb of ddr2 at 1066 Mhz.

I am running a win 98 se sp 2.1, win xp pro sp3 dual boot from a 240 gb Kinston ssd paritioned 32GB fat32 for win 98se and the rest in ntfs for win xp pro. I also have a dvd rom and 2x 500 gb drives to srore my games in ntfs format, I use systernals ntfs drivers for win 98.

I use this rig for my older games that will not run on my modern 5950x rig.

Win 98 uses Voodoo 3 3000 pci and sb live sb0100. Win xp runs with a AMD HD 5770 1 gb card, with acess to the voodoo 3 of course. I like to call it my Frankenstein build. Latter on I might be looking to possibly adding my AMD RX570 4gb as a base card to triple boot into win 7 as well. Or even adding a V1 on a pcie to pci adaptor for retro compatibility, but I have no real justification to do that exept for MW 2 and possibly Tomb Raider or Decent 3, if I can find copies of those games cheap.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear what you guys think about my newly built rig?

I guess my question is, am I creating a game incompatibility hole between win 98 and wi xp setups by lack of a faster gpu on win 98? I do have a GF6800GS pcie laying around that I can throw in, but it will not play nice with my voodoo 3 pci on win 98 (boot freeze).

Another question, is if it worth it to get a V1 upgrade when I could eventually play those games on PCem on my modern rig.

Last edited by gnn on 2023-06-17, 23:18. Edited 1 time in total.

GNN
The Frankenstein:
P5Q Deluxe, Q9650, 8 gb ddr2
Win98SE: Voodoo 3 3000 SG pci + SB0100
WinXP Pro SP3: AMD HD 5770

Reply 12 of 18, by gerry

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gnn wrote on 2023-06-12, 23:56:
Scavenging around, i put some parts together and purchased a voodoo 3 and sb0100 card to build the following. […]
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Scavenging around, i put some parts together and purchased a voodoo 3 and sb0100 card to build the following.

P5Q deluxe build (S775, p45, ICH10). It is running a Q9650 @ 3.6 Ghz with 8 gb of ddr2 at 1066 Mhz.

I am running a win 98 se sp 2.1, win xp pro sp3 dual boot from a 240 gb Kinston ssd paritioned 32GB fat32 for win 98se and the rest in ntfs for win xp pro. I also have a dvd rom and 2x 500 gb drives to srore my games in ntfs format, I use systernals ntfs drivers for win 98.

I use this rig for my older games that will not run on my modern 5950x rig.

Win 98 uses Voodoo 3 3000 pci and sb live sb0100. Win xp runs with a AMD HD 5770 1 gb card, with acess to the voodoo 3 of course. I like to call it my Frankenstein build. Latter on I might be looking to possibly adding my AMD X570 4gb as a base card to triple boot into win 7 as well. Or even adding a V1 on a pcie to pci adaptor for retro compatibility, but I have no real justification to do that exept for MW 2 and possibly Tomb Raider or Decent 3, if I can find copies of those games cheap.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear what you guys think about my newly built rig?

Hi and welcome! That is indeed a Frankenstein build! 😀 if it is doing what you want then great. to make it even freakier you could quad boot it, add windows 7 and some linux too as it will be capable of even more (and ok online with linux)

775 seems the most flexible base!

Reply 13 of 18, by gnn

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Yeah, the 775 is awesome. I am feeling more geekeeness in me to add a win 7 pro. This will also give me the all too important trim on my ssd ntfs partitions.

I have not thought of a linux distro. That would add quite a bit to the Frankensteinisity of this build...

What about the other direction, i.e. Dos 6.22? I feel it would get complicated in that direction+ it would probably require a cdrom with audio out in the back in the back, as well as a Gotek A drive...

GNN
The Frankenstein:
P5Q Deluxe, Q9650, 8 gb ddr2
Win98SE: Voodoo 3 3000 SG pci + SB0100
WinXP Pro SP3: AMD HD 5770

Reply 14 of 18, by bZbZbZ

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I know Phil recently made a video of a 775 system running DOS... I do feel like you're right - it would get really complicated in that direction. My opinion is that unless you're SUPER into DOS... you might as well just run DOSBox from within WinXP. Your CPU would absolutely crush anything you throw at it in DOSBox, and I've had success running DOSBox from within WinXP. If you want to use DBGL under WinXP, you'd have to find and older version. DOSBox Staging, an advanced fork of DOSBox, also won't run under WinXP.

I would suggest that if you start going crazy with more than 2 operating systems, your life might be easier if you use multiple SSDs.

Reply 15 of 18, by gnn

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Yeah, I think you are right, going in the dos direction will probably drive me nuts. Dosbox actually seems more apropriate than pcem on my modern rig, just because I can keep all my retro in one system. I will definitly look into it.

On the ssd side, I suspect you are also right, I should get a 120mb for my win 98, as I have quite a few big boxes to install. The 240 can be used for XP, and I do have an old 500 laying around that I could use for win 7.

The main issue I see is that I can only use trim on ntfs if I setup in achi. I have had issues with running achi on win98, so I run compatible IDE, in that mode I can run R. Loew trim program on my fat32. If I could just get his ACHI dtivers to work on win98, I would be all set to go for a solid tripple boot 98, xp, 7, the rigrh way. Also, I found out the hard way that the syaternal ntfs drivers crash alot with games installed on them, so my idea of 500 gb install space for all system is out of the window.

GNN
The Frankenstein:
P5Q Deluxe, Q9650, 8 gb ddr2
Win98SE: Voodoo 3 3000 SG pci + SB0100
WinXP Pro SP3: AMD HD 5770

Reply 16 of 18, by agent_x007

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You are worrying too much about that SSD.
SSDs "wear out" during writing data to memory.
Unless you plan to reinstall multi-GBs worth of games each week, there is no issue with running SSD "as is".
Even without TRIM, modern SSD will be more than fast enough under 98 in long term use.

Keep backup of the data on it somewhere regardless (but that should be standard practice even with old HDDs containing valuable data [to You] on them).

Reply 17 of 18, by chinny22

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gnn wrote on 2023-06-12, 23:56:
Win 98 uses Voodoo 3 3000 pci and sb live sb0100. Win xp runs with a AMD HD 5770 1 gb card, with acess to the voodoo 3 of course […]
Show full quote

Win 98 uses Voodoo 3 3000 pci and sb live sb0100. Win xp runs with a AMD HD 5770 1 gb card, with acess to the voodoo 3 of course. I like to call it my Frankenstein build. Latter on I might be looking to possibly adding my AMD X570 4gb as a base card to triple boot into win 7 as well. Or even adding a V1 on a pcie to pci adaptor for retro compatibility, but I have no real justification to do that exept for MW 2 and possibly Tomb Raider or Decent 3, if I can find copies of those games cheap.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear what you guys think about my newly built rig?

I guess my question is, am I creating a game incompatibility hole between win 98 and wi xp setups by lack of a faster gpu on win 98? I do have a GF6800GS pcie laying around that I can throw in, but it will not play nice with my voodoo 3 pci on win 98 (boot freeze).

Another question, is if it worth it to get a V1 upgrade when I could eventually play those games on PCem on my modern rig.

I think for a scrap build PC it's pretty balanced.
Win98 has great Glide and fairly good D3D support thanks to the Voodoo 3.
and would think any D3D game that struggles on the V3 is probably new enough to run in XP with the HD5770.
Personally I think adding the GF6 would be a mistake as yes it is one of the most powerful Win9x cards but it's compatibility issues limit it's usefulness, especially on a dual boot system.

V1 just depends how much you need to run things on actual hardware.
As you have the V3 you already get to experience glide on hardware, so you could get away with those few incompatible games with emulation, or maybe not it's a personal choice.

Reply 18 of 18, by gnn

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Ok, so I ordered a couple extra ssd for win xp and win 7 to have their own drives. Once I get initial installs redone (new in the case of win 7) it should be much easier to handle multiboot. Am I correct to assume that I can just copy the win xp boot manager 4 or 5 files and then edit boot.ini to get the tripple boot go smoothly?

On the video side, I will go for dosbox emulation on win xp or win 7 to load the few older dos games that I have in there, as I am not willing to fork out 250 ca$ just for a couple game support on V1 hardware. Once I finally finish my tripple boot, I will try to get my rx570 going on win 7.

I will post updates as I progress which might take a bit of time, as apparently my 2 ssd won't arrive for another week or so.

GNN
The Frankenstein:
P5Q Deluxe, Q9650, 8 gb ddr2
Win98SE: Voodoo 3 3000 SG pci + SB0100
WinXP Pro SP3: AMD HD 5770