VOGONS


Reply 41 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Pino wrote on 2024-03-22, 15:49:

Beautiful build, I might try one like this some day.

How are you slowing the CPU? Just disabling L1 and L2 cache? How slow can you go and how flexible it is?

Thanks for all the detailed info on the post.

Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. 😀

For slowing down I'm using two main tools: SETMUL and CPUSPD.

SETMUL I use to disable L1 cache. Unfortunately L2 cache disabling doesn't seem to be supported via these tools.

CPUSPD has a few options including Southbridge clock throttling, CPU clock modulation and CPU multiplier settings.

I usually play with combinations of different settings to find something that appears to work. Southbridge clock throttling and CPU clock modulation settings can have some weird effects (e.g. slowing down audio, or certain graphics effects). But it also can work in making games playable or have animations run at a correct speed that would otherwise be too fast.

The slowest I've tried has been slowing the Police Quest II intro down to 286 levels. The intro animation in that game is speed sensitive and is designed for an 8 to 12 MHz 286. Disabling L1 cache and then setting some of the slowest options for throttling and CPU modulation allows the intro to run at a speed approximating a 286.

A few other games I've slowed down include:

  • Dark Forces - To allow for General MIDI playback (locks up if too fast)
  • Day of the Tentacle - Allow for digital audio playback (locks up if too fast)
  • Descent - Slowing to make the ship / controls playable (approximating 486/Pentium)
  • Dynablaster - To allow digital audio playback (locks up if too fast)
  • Warcraft - Slowing palette animation to 486 DX-33 speeds.

I still have a lot of testing to do with speed sensitive games. I hope to publish more detailed results and settings at some point. So far I'm optimistic this system could be used with a lot of games from the late 80s and the 90s.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 42 of 149, by Shponglefan

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H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-03-22, 06:40:

That's a sexy cooler with all that copper!

It is indeed! 😁

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 44 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Pino wrote on 2024-03-22, 17:10:

286, 486DX-33 and Pentium speeds covers pretty much the entire DOS games range requirements I would assume, well done!

It covers most of it, although given the quirkiness of some of the throttling options, there may be unintended side effects. I'll know more about how well all this works once I start using this system on a regular basis. 😀

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 45 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Did some partition re-sizing on the 128 GB drive. Ended up with four 20 GB partitions for the Win 98 SE installs, Windows Me, and the misc files drive intended to be shared among the various Windows installs.

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Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 46 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Did another test install of Windows 98 SE.

Used a different set of drivers this time including the official Orpheus II drivers, Vortex 2041, and GUS PnP.

One issue I did run into was the GUS PnP support. Under DOS I'm using IRQ 3 (since I've disabled COM2). Unfortunately under Windows 98 it does not allow me to assign that IRQ to the GUS. Any other IRQ results in either a BSOD or Windows Protection Fault. I disabled the GUS as a result.

The MX300 card also once again warned me about being installed on the secondary PCI bus. But it still seems to work with A3D based on the A3D demos.

I'm going to test some games and benchmarks. Assuming everything works well, I'll do the full Windows 98 installs on the main SSD.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 47 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Continued to test things under Windows 98 SE and ran some benchmarks.

GeForce 4 4200 Ti

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Voodoo 2

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The Voodoo2 3DMark 2000 benchmark did crash the first time I ran it. It ran fine after a reboot.

I also tested some games including Half-Life, Unreal, and SimCity 3000 Unlimited. A3D sound worked nicely in the first two games and EAX worked in SimCity.

Finally, I added a low-noise adapter (resistor) to slow down the CPU fan. I noticed the heat sink barely gets warm to the touch after swapping CPUs. While the fan was relatively quiet to begin with, now it's virtually silent.

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Last edited by Shponglefan on 2024-03-24, 03:23. Edited 4 times in total.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 48 of 149, by Joseph_Joestar

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-24, 02:11:

Continued to test things under Windows 98 SE and ran some benchmarks.

Those 3DMark 99 scores seem too low for a GeForce 4 Ti4200 if you're running the default test.

Here are some of mine with the same GPU on an AthlonXP and Athlon64 platforms. I recommend you test out some games like Quake 2 and UT99 to see how they compare.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 49 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-24, 02:33:

Those 3DMark 99 scores seem too low for a GeForce 4 Ti4200 if you're running the default test.

Here are some of mine with the same GPU on an AthlonXP and Athlon64 platforms. I recommend you test out some games like Quake 2 and UT99 to see how they compare.

After some more testing, it looks like v-sync is enabled. I set the monitor to only 60 Hz and got a score of ~6000 instead.

Unfortunately I can't find an option either in 3DMark99 or in the nVidia control panel to turn vsync off for Direct3D.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 50 of 149, by Joseph_Joestar

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-24, 03:06:

After some more testing, it looks like v-sync is enabled. I set the monitor to only 60 Hz and got a score of ~6000 instead.

Unfortunately I can't find an option either in 3DMark99 or in the nVidia control panel to turn vsync off for Direct3D.

You need to apply the Coolbits registry tweak for that setting to show up. It can be downloaded from Phil's website.

After using the tweak, V-Sync should appear under "More Direct3D" though this may vary depending on the driver version. I know that it works with 30.82 and 45.23. Not sure about other driver versions.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 51 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-24, 03:11:

You need to apply the Coolbits registry tweak for that setting to show up. It can be downloaded from Phil's website.

After using the tweak, V-Sync should appear under "More Direct3D" though this may vary depending on the driver version. I know that it works with 30.82 and 45.23. Not sure about other driver versions.

That did the trick! After disabling v-sync it returned a score of 19565.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 52 of 149, by GemCookie

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Look for a BIOS option named "Max CPUID Value Limit". Enabling it should allow Windows NT 4.0 to install on later Intel processors (Pentium 4 HT+).
If this option is not available, install Windows NT on another system, upgrade to Service Pack 6a, copy the OS files to a FAT16 partition and add the appropriate entry to the file boot.ini.

Asus Maximus Extreme X38 | C2Q Q9550 | GTX 750Ti | 8GiB DDR3 | 120GB SSD+640GB HDD | WinXP/Vista/11
MSI MS-5169 | K6-2 350 | TNT2 M64 | 384MiB PC100 | 120GB HDD | Win95/NT4/XP
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Reply 53 of 149, by Shponglefan

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GemCookie wrote on 2024-03-24, 15:14:

Look for a BIOS option named "Max CPUID Value Limit". Enabling it should allow Windows NT 4.0 to install on later Intel processors (Pentium 4 HT+).

Thank you, that worked! I also disabled hyper-threading for good measure.

I was able to install NT 4.0 to the 4 GB NTFS partition I had previously created. It did fail to recognize the correct drive sizes, but that didn't seem to affect anything.

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Install went flawlessly and booted into NT just fine. 😀

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Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 54 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Did some OS installing today.

Got both installs for Windows 98 SE installed on the SSD and partially configured. Still to do are all the sound card drivers and configurations.

I also took the opportunity to install Windows Me. Never installed it before today, so this was something completely new.

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Setup went relatively smoothly and managed to get video card and chipset drivers installed.

One issue I ran into is this remaining PCI USB Device. It's a USB 2.0 controller, but Windows Me doesn't recognize it.

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Under Windows 98, I follow up the install with the NUSB36 USB driver pack. I can then update this device and it installs a driver for it.

Unfortunately under Windows ME the NUSB36 drivers won't install; it complains about an incorrect OS version. 😒

I tried some searching to see if there is an alternative solution for this, but haven't found anything yet.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 55 of 149, by Joseph_Joestar

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-24, 23:43:

Unfortunately under Windows ME the NUSB36 drivers won't install; it complains about an incorrect OS version. 😒

Unpack the contents of NUSB to a folder, then manually update the USB 2.0 driver from Device Manager and point it to that folder.

Also, stick to NUSB 3.3. Later versions modify too many system files, thereby turning your OS into some kind of Frankenstein's monster. The final result ends up somewhere in-between Win98/ME/2K which isn't that great for system stability. More details here.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 56 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-25, 00:16:

Unpack the contents of NUSB to a folder, then manually update the USB 2.0 driver from Device Manager and point it to that folder.

I'll give that a shot. Although I suppose anyone else might have already done that somewhere?

Also, stick to NUSB 3.3. Later versions modify too many system files, thereby turning your OS into some kind of Frankenstein's monster. The final result ends up somewhere in-between Win98/ME/2K which isn't that great for system stability. More details here.

That's good advice. I just noticed the 3.6 version had changed my System Info view to say "Windows Me" instead of 98. That's a bit annoying.

Just redid the two Windows 98 installs and used 3.3 instead. At least I hadn't fully finished setting them up previously. 😅

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 57 of 149, by badmojo

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-14, 21:31:

...but the only game I couldn’t make playable was Ultima VII: The Black Gate.

Might help? Ultima VII Frame Limiter Patch

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 58 of 149, by Joseph_Joestar

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-25, 02:04:

I'll give that a shot. Although I suppose anyone else might have already done that somewhere?

You mean unpack the contents of the NUSB installer? That should be possible with 7-Zip and similar archivers.

Personally, I just use Total Commander and press CTRL+Page Down on the file.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 59 of 149, by Shponglefan

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-25, 05:59:

You mean unpack the contents of the NUSB installer? That should be possible with 7-Zip and similar archivers.

Personally, I just use Total Commander and press CTRL+Page Down on the file.

I was wondering if someone had deconstructed the collection into individual drivers.

At any rate, I just unpacked it and installed the USB 2.0 driver and it seemed to work! 😀

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards