No positional audio for Windows, no gameport for DOS/early Windows. No mention of CD drive - if you'll be emulating then there will be issues with some titles.

Decent entry level machine but I bet that before long you'll want more 😉

elszgensa wrote on 2024-04-02, 14:12:

No positional audio for Windows, no gameport for DOS/early Windows. No mention of CD drive - if you'll be emulating then there will be issues with some titles.

Decent entry level machine but I bet that before long you'll want more 😉

Good point!
I am thinking of maybe picking up a Creative SoundBlaster Live! PCI sound card for the positional audio. I just want to make sure the graphics card works with the PCI riser first!

Intel 945 chipsets do not support 98.
Of your list, NFS3-4, Unreal and TR1 benefit from Glide rendering.
If you absolutely must fit into ITX, your available option with driver support is VIA Epia series. If you don’t, any mATX 865G board will do.
Lack of ISA is not dramatic if you go with compatible chipset and card such as Live or 724. Even without dos box and vdmsound, in plain 98.

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-04-03, 16:50:

Intel 945 chipsets do not support 98.

I am aware. However, the 945 is only the North Bridge of this chipset, and the only "device" Windows relates to on the North Bridge, is the integrated Graphics adapter. This problem will be overcome by instead using the Geforce FX 5500 I have ordered, which has excellent Windows 98 support. This is from the Gigabyte website:

North Bridge: Intel® 945GC Express Chipset
South Bridge: Intel® ICH7

With regards to the South Bridge part of this chipset, the ICH7, there is a solution. Someone created custom drivers to make W98 recognize the hardware that is in the South Bridge, such as ATA controller, USB controller, Sound Card.
I found it on this website: https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2019 … drivers-9x.html

Of your list, NFS3-4, Unreal and TR1 benefit from Glide rendering.

Agreed, but I will have to choose between HW Glide support in the form of a Voodoo2, or positional audio, in the form of an EAX-capable PCI sound card. I do not know how well Glide wrappers will work wiht the FX 5500. I guess I will test that properly, before I make my final desition.

Thanks for the input!

FX5500 PCI does not have “excellent” 98 support because it is not in 45.23 forceware, not to mention performance and prices.
Even if you install custom inf file, ICH6 and newer would have DMA troubles when it comes to pci sound in dos games.
Shortsaid it will mostly work fine with the tricks you mention but it won’t count as 98 build on this forum because it doesn’t support obscure titles well.

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-04-04, 09:58:

FX5500 PCI does not have “excellent” 98 support because it is not in 45.23 forceware, not to mention performance and prices.
Even if you install custom inf file, ICH6 and newer would have DMA troubles when it comes to pci sound in dos games.

Why would it have to be forceware 45.23 ? Because of the 5% better performance than later versions? If I were a purist, I would have gone for a M-ATX with AGP, and say a GF 4 Ti or something. But I want as small form factor as possible, and achieve W98 gaming with the games mentioned in the first post. I reckon an FX 5500 will run NFS 5 (Porsche) just fine, in 1280x960 resolution. It is after all a DX 7.0 game. My only worry performance wise is if this graphics card will be sufficiently effective with a Glide wrapper (for NFS 3 and 4), there are several options to try. Must assemble first, still waiting for the parts to arrive.

Shortsaid it will mostly work fine with the tricks you mention but it won’t count as 98 build on this forum because it doesn’t support obscure titles well.

Let's not forego the conclusion, shall we? 😉

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-04-04, 09:58:

FX5500 PCI does not have “excellent” 98 support because it is not in 45.23 forceware, not to mention performance and prices.

You can modify inf file in 45.23 package to add a support for FX5500 (you need to copy 2 lines from inf file from newer drivers). It worked for me when I played with FS Futro S400 and one of these Chinese FX5500 PCI. I believe that mine had blue PCB, but I guess that probably doesn't matter.

Quick note regarding NFS4: High Stakes. That game won't work with 45.23 drivers. It will crash on start, even when using officially supported cards like the GeForce 4 series. I think NFS3 may have similar issues as well.

For those games, you either need older drivers like 30.82 or newer ones such as 56.64.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-07, 07:07:

I think NFS3 may have similar issues as well.

In my experience on my LAN party machines NFS3 is fine with the 45.23 drivers on Windows 98, using Geforce 256 DDR, Geforce 2 GTS, Geforce 3, And Geforce 4 Ti4200 64MB and 128MB 😀

Still looks better using Glide though...

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-07, 07:07:

Quick note regarding NFS4: High Stakes. That game won't work with 45.23 drivers. It will crash on start, even when using officially supported cards like the GeForce 4 series. I think NFS3 may have similar issues as well.

For those games, you either need older drivers like 30.82 or newer ones such as 56.64.

Thanks a lot, will keep that in mind!
Although I hope to be able to use a Glide Wrapper for NFS3 & NFS4, either PSVoodoo or nGlide or dgVoodoo.

Shadzilla wrote on 2024-04-07, 08:01:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-07, 07:07:

I think NFS3 may have similar issues as well.

In my experience on my LAN party machines NFS3 is fine with the 45.23 drivers on Windows 98, using Geforce 256 DDR, Geforce 2 GTS, Geforce 3, And Geforce 4 Ti4200 64MB and 128MB 😀

Still looks better using Glide though...

Yeah pretty sure NFS3 works fine on my rig using 45.23 drivers. Reason I’m only ‘pretty sure’ is because it does indeed look better using glide so I mostly play it on my voodoo rig 😂

I wasn't sure about NFS3 as it's been a while since I've tested it.

On the other hand, I do recall trying several Nvidia drivers from the 4x.xx series with NFS4 and none of them worked on my system.

Ordered a few new parts.
Case:

44 Pin 2.5 " HDD To 3.5 " IDE 40 Pin Interface
I have a 40 GB IDE-drive from an old laptop laying around, and I plan to use that.

hilram wrote on 2024-04-14, 11:10:

Ordered a few new parts.
Case:

I like how modern ITX cases have multiple slots for big GPU's, it lets you run a graphics card and sound card in a little tiny package. I did the same thing with a 945 chipset in an ITX case with a 7950gt and an Audigy. I expected a few issues at the retro LAN party I went to, and it ran perfectly and actually it's one of my favorite systems to play with.

I think you'll have fun with it, and It's kind of fun working around some of the restraints of these setups.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly!
All parts that were ordered have arrived now except the case.

Now begins the search for a good soundcard. I want positional audio, I remeber the joy of Need for Speed 5 with EAX. Does anyone know if NFS games support Aureal Audio as well, or is it just EAX?

Anyway, criteria for a new soundcard is:

• PCI (32-bit)
• No longer than 195 mm (maximum length GPU supported by case)
• Positional Audio (EAX or A3D)
• Joystick port that can be used as Midi-interface as well
• Driver support for both Win 98 and Win XP 32bit
• Should be able to emulate SoundBlaster in W98 DOS mode

hilram wrote on 2024-04-15, 19:51:

Yeah, my thoughts exactly! All parts that were ordered have arrived now except the case. […]
Show full quote

Yeah, my thoughts exactly!
All parts that were ordered have arrived now except the case.

Now begins the search for a good soundcard. I want positional audio, I remeber the joy of Need for Speed 5 with EAX. Does anyone know if NFS games support Aureal Audio as well, or is it just EAX?

Anyway, criteria for a new soundcard is:

• PCI (32-bit)
• No longer than 195 mm (maximum length GPU supported by case)
• Positional Audio (EAX or A3D)
• Joystick port that can be used as Midi-interface as well
• Driver support for both Win 98 and Win XP 32bit
• Should be able to emulate SoundBlaster in W98 DOS mode

I don't think you can go wrong with a Sound Blaster live, they're cheap and readily available. But Sound Blasters are what I'm used to and prefer, and you can run the Audigy2 driver that Joseph_Joestar himself has an excellent write-up about on this very forum. (Though I can't seem to find it with a google search)

A Yamaha YMF card might would work though it's not my favorite solution because some games like Duke Nukem only fully work in real DOS, which I could never get working with a 945 chipset.

Crystal and Aureal cards might be a better option, but I don't know much about them.

Finally the case has arrived!

Box

Nice little case

Mouse for scale

Comes with even a little screwdriver!

EDIT: Scaling the images down.

hilram wrote on 2024-04-27, 09:48:

Finally the case has arrived! […]
Show full quote

Finally the case has arrived!

Box

Nice little case

Mouse for scale

Comes with even a little screwdriver!

EDIT: Scaling the images down.

I like it! How much did she cost?