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First post, by Polar

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When I mount c:\ as C in DOSBox, it gives me a message "you shouldn't do this, use a subdirectory next time". This post gives an example why this may be a very useful thing to do anyway:

I have two PCs, on both of which is running and old, but very good DOS graphics program which uses DOS full screen mode. This program itself reads/writes files from a number of directories (part of which are set by environment variables), uses batch files with absolute path definitions, and furthermore reads/writes data files from still other directories. I use an automatic system that updates such files on one PC when they are changed on the other.
One of the PCs has a graphics card that does not support VESA, so full screen DOS graphics works *only* with DOSBox on that PC (and thankfully, it works pretty fine!).

If I would need to specify anything else but c:\ as the C root in DOSBox, there would thus be different directory trees on the two PCs, and updating files would be a mess, and there would need to be two different sets of batch files with different path specifications.

Thus, if you want to use DOSBox just as a replacement for the "normal" DOS window, you sure want to mount c:\ as C, d:\ as D, etc.

I think this is a great project, just it should not *only* focus on making games running (which is of course great, too), but also be thought as a general DOS substitute, as the number of new computers that doesn't support DOS anymore fully (like e.g. with the graphics) is unfortunately increasing.

Reply 2 of 18, by wd

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No, but one reason are dos virii or malfunctioning software, and you surely
don't want your system directories to be corrupted.
One simple solution in your case would be putting the software which you
need to access from dosbox AND outside it into one directory and mount
that as say e: (dosbox) and subst that as e: (in xp/dos or whatever)

> you sure want to mount c:\ as C, d:\ as D, etc

Nobody says you aren't allowed to want that, but it's just that you should
not do that. If you still mount your root directory, you're on your own so
don't complain if something got corrupt for whatever reason.

Reply 3 of 18, by gulikoza

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Some programs or games might assume windows 3.11 is installed if they find c:\windows directory. So, they might wanna modify some files, you can imagine how WinXP could react to that 😀

http://www.si-gamer.net/gulikoza

Reply 4 of 18, by kruwi

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I completely agree with polar that dosbox should focus on becoming a general dos emulator. Dos compatibility is decreasing with every new version of windows. If this development goes on (and yes, it will), dos software will end up the same way amiga software (for example) already has a long time ago: Confined to dustgathering floppy discs kept in a forgotten cupboard drawer. But for the amiga, at least there are the euae/winuae emulators. Pretty stable, they allow to run about any piece of amiga software. Thus, the spirt of a whole era is preserved for the future. But what about the dos era? I think dosbox is the only project capable of achieving for dos what winuae/euae have already achieved for the amiga. Bochs/ dosemu will not do the job. Dosbox could, it's already on the way. 😁 😁 😁 😁

Reply 5 of 18, by Zup

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DOSBox as DOS emulator?

Focusing in emulation of games means that DOSBox developers can easily "forget" some instructions, interrupts or function calls not widely used, to make DOSBox lighter and faster.

Pure emulation of a PC may result in heavier programs and slow performance. Also, there are plenty of emulators of complete PCs (see Virtual PC, VMWare, Bochs, etc). You could use these for app or systems emulation, and DOSBox for gaming.

No need to give more worries to DOSBox team, in my opinion.

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Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 6 of 18, by kruwi

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There's no need for the developers to worry. Dosbox already supports A LOT of apps. And actually, it's much easier to install and run these apps in dosbox than in, for example, bochs. They run faster, too.

P.S.: I think system demanding games actually call a lot of interrupt functions, too. Maybe even more than a dos spread sheet program or some old shareware app.
I already use dosbox to run turbo pascal and delphi 1 (under win 3.1). They behave fine.

Reply 7 of 18, by Wintermute

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kruwi wrote:

it's much easier to install and run these apps in dosbox than in, for example, bochs. They run faster, too.

Yes, but only because Dosbox focus mainly on gaming and don't bother about some unnecessary extras, which are needed for special applications. It's nice that some applications run anyway, but this is not the goal.

So in my opinion, it should stay this way. Dosbox is and should be mainly a DOS game emulator!
Everything else will only make this program cumbersome and slow. There are already plenty of other emulators for doing these other tasks.

Reply 8 of 18, by kruwi

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I do not want dosbox to become bloated with unnecessary features. But it is a dos emulator. ALL my old apps from the dos age actually function quite well. There is not one that does not. Some of these, however, do not run in win xp anymore. But in dosbox, they do. So what is the point to state dosbox is not a dos emulator? Isn't for example "monkey.exe" or "maniac.com" also a dos app (in a way?)

Reply 9 of 18, by wd

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It's not that there will be code in dosbox that forcefully prevents applications
(=dos executables minus dos games) from running. It's just that there will
be no effort for direct support of non-games. Having dosbox run all those
dos games is already enough trouble.
But of course it's nice that a lot of old dos applications work in dosbox 😀

Reply 10 of 18, by Wintermute

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@Kruwi: So if you all your needed applications are running, what is the problem?
Just be happy and call Dosbox whatever you like. 😁

The thing is, most old DOS applications can be substituted today quite easily under Linux, Windows or Mac OS with newer software; the new programs or "Remakes" 😉 are way more power- and useful than the DOS programs ever have been. There are only very few and rare exotic programs which are used by some users, for which this is not the case.

But for games this is a totally different thing. Very few of the old DOS games got a "Remake" and are only playable under this operating system. So in my opinion they are much more in need to be supported by an emulator.

Reply 11 of 18, by kruwi

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Yes, you're right. 😁 😁 😁

But about the "not necessary to emulate" thing: It's not necessary, but
it is something like a preservation of the past for the future.
Also, I found out, that dosbox let's me do sbpro2 programming again !!!!!! Just like 10-15 years ago !!!! So, no understatements, guys, please: This is a dos emulator (for me).

Reply 12 of 18, by Polar

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I agree with Kruwi that practically all of the DOS programs that I'm using are running well with DosBox. So making it more useable for people who want to run general DOS applications, or for people who program under DOS (I'm still using VBDOS a lot), it not actually necessary to add lots of more interrupts etc. , but just change some things in the user interface/layout which would suit those people's needs.

Other emulators are indeed much more heavy (Bochs), not so good in emulating DOS (Virtual PC), or not free (VMWare etc.).

Two rather simple additions would be:
- to add the possibility in the DosBox command line to run commands *after* the configuration file has been processed, but *without* mounting anything (<name> seems to try to mount to C, "-C " seems to add a command *before * the config file is read)

- to support long filenames in the same way as Windows 95/98 does (and add a "/X" switch to the DIR command in order to show both long and short filename).

Reply 13 of 18, by Polar

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wd:

Ok, although I had really no problems of mounting c:\ to C, I took your advise and moved all DOS applications away from drive c: - took a while to fix all those static links in numerous batch and other files again, but now it seems to work without using drive C at all for any program except DosBox itself.

Reply 16 of 18, by Dominus

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which dos programs need long file name support?

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Reply 17 of 18, by Polar

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I use VBDOS with data files that are also used by other Windows programs. These data files may have long file names. For VBDOS, there is a library called lfnlib which translates long to short filenames, and vice versa. It works in any "DOS in Windows", but not in DosBox.