VOGONS

Common searches


Dosbox, CRT 17", 320x200... please.

Topic actions

First post, by bysurferox11

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hello everyone.

Sorry for the spelling errors . I am using Google Translate .

Several days ago I've caught a CRT monitor ( Sony Trinitron Multiscan 200ES ) for use with Ms dos games with Dosbox . I have made many tests with configurations .

Monitor to 1024x768 and 85 Hz : This is the resolution that looks best on the Windows desktop . With this resolution I set Doxbox follows :

fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=original
windowresolution=original
output=surface
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper-0.74.map
usescancodes=true

frameskip=0
aspect=true
scaler=normal2x

With this configuration the games look good, with bright colors, but pixelated , etc ... as this picture (look at the edges of the letters) :

24qoahg.jpg

But what I want to see 100 % original games at its native resolution ( 320x200 ) and without filters or scalers .

To achieve this do the following:

In the Nvidia control panel create a custom setting for this monitor to 320x200 and 70 hz or 75 hz ( it looks like ) . With this monitor resolutions I set dosbox follows :

fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=original
windowresolution=original
output=ddraw
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper-0.74.map
usescancodes=true

frameskip=0
aspect=false
scaler=none

With this configuration the games look like this:

4lg7yr.jpg

Thus the original resolution respects me and does not apply filters or scaling.

With this configuration when running dosbox fullscreen games are as originally they saw in my 486. No pixels and original graphics but have a problem . They look a bit blurry. They lack the intensity of the colors you see in the first picture. I tried to change the output to ddraw dosbox , surface , and openglnb opengl but are equally blurred.

What I want is to configure Dosbox games Fashion look 100 % real in my CRT monitor. No filters or scalers . 320x200 . The most real experience of my old 486 with 17 inch crt monitor.

Thank you very much for everything and sorry for the spelling errors .

Reply 2 of 39, by GPDP

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

What leileilol said is mostly correct, although in truth, the resolution after doublescanning was more like 320x400, but it hardly makes a difference. The point is, if you want it to be truly authentic, you WILL have to deal with some pixellation, because that's how the games originally looked due to the doublescan.

Reply 3 of 39, by bysurferox11

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

The first is to thank you for answering.

After several tests with dosbox I managed exactly like the image in my crt to crt dosbox that connecting to a 486.

The final configuration is as follows:

fullscreen=true
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=original
windowresolution=original
output=surface
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper-0.74.map
usescancodes=true

language=
machine=vgaonly
captures=capture
memsize=16

frameskip=0
aspect=false
scaler=none

The "secret" is to have succeeded "machine = vgaonly" option.

Always speak to 320x200 Games

He said if anyone is interested.

thanks

Reply 4 of 39, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

vgaonly also doubles the resolution (well actually more like properly emulates the VGA scanlines which requires 640x400). vgaonly is there for some of the few games (but mostly demoscene products) that really pinch the VGA registers for some effects.

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 5 of 39, by GPDP

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I actually could not get proper 640x400 output on my CRT until I created a custom modeline for it. At least using ykhwong's build, you don't even need to set the output to surface or machine to vgaonly to get it working once that is done. I have it on direct3d and svga_s3, and I get the proper output. Well, also normal2x to get mode 13h games looking as they should.

That said, I cannot get good vsync no matter what I try. I get tearing on high-speed games.

Reply 7 of 39, by photokoi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hey everybody, I know this thread is relatively old, but I have a similar question.

i have a viewsonic E771 crt monitor specifically to play dos games. However, I have not once been able to successfully get the monitor's resolution to 320x200 to display the scanlines of the original dos games. In other words, how do I get the exact image of a dos game in 320x200 on Windows 7 and dosbox? I've tried to put the full resolution=320x200 but it doesn't do what I ask. Are there CRT monitors incapable of displaying 320x200 by default? Do I need an older monitor?

Also, did all monitors have the raster scan ie scanlines due to mode 13h, or did high tech sony monitors have the full image without scan lines?

Reply 8 of 39, by jwt27

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Windows has to know your monitor supports this resolution before you can use it. With the Nvidia control panel you can create custom resolutions, however there's no way to enable doublescanning, as far as I know. Without doublescanning, you'll end up with annoyingly visible scanlines.

Best is probably to use 640x400, and use a 2x scaler in Dosbox to simulate doublescanning.

High-resolution CRTs always show scanlines at low resolutions, simply because the beam width and dot pitch has to be narrow enough to show higher resolutions too. Smaller CRTs with large dot-pitch show the image without scanlines.

WANTED - Manuals/drivers for:

  • Tecmar Graphics Master
  • Paradise Autoswitch EGA 350 (EGA1A)

Reply 9 of 39, by photokoi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

640x400 looks pretty good actually, though I will have to check the control panel. I don't have NVIDIA, so I'll look at the Intel panel or whatever. It might be further complicated that it is Windows booted on Mac.

However, aren't the scanlines supposed to be visible? You say that "you'll end up with annoyingly visible scanlines" without doublescanning. DOSBox SVN Daum hav the D3d.geom.curved scaler which has the nice scanlines, but I want to get that natively.

Reply 10 of 39, by collector

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Keep in mind the different shapes of the pixels between the days of 320x200. You will want to use aspect correction to have the intended aspect. i.e. 640x480. Otherwise the display will look unnaturally squished over what it looked like on actual period hardware.

The Sierra Help Pages -- New Sierra Game Installers -- Sierra Game Patches -- New Non-Sierra Game Installers

Reply 11 of 39, by photokoi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

The question is why can't my monitor physically get to 320x200? or even 640x400 as opposed to 640x480? I made these custom resolutions with Intel on my Windows 7 pc with the crt monitor but its as if it ignores these resolutions because when I put them on dosbox, dosbox just goes to 1024x768. And 640x480 with aspect correction works, but thats an emulation. The true result would be stretched out horizontal lines from top to bottom. With the 640x480 with true aspect orrection, the product has pixels unevenly placed.

I'm just befuddled. I might just get linux or something to fix it.

Am i making any sense? Hasnt anyone else though of this?

Reply 12 of 39, by collector

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Though not specifically about the difference between 320x200 and 640x480, this might give you some idea - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio

Older monitors had taller pixels, so for the same number of scan lines was taller than the same number of scan lines on a modern monitor. The same number of pixels in a row of an image with the same number of rows will be just as wide on a more modern monitor, but shorter.

SierraLogoNoApect.png
Filename
SierraLogoNoApect.png
File size
5.95 KiB
Views
7862 views
File comment
No Aspect Correction
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
SierraLogoApect.png
Filename
SierraLogoApect.png
File size
11.73 KiB
Views
7862 views
File comment
With Aspect Correction
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Note that the logo is supposed to be a circle, not a squat ovoid shape. On a monitor of the period each scan line was taller, so the logo would appear properly as a circle. On a more modern monitor with more, but shorter scan lines you need to increase the resolution to fill the screen (without letterboxing) to maintain the aspect ratio for the entire screen.

This has nothing to do with Windows, Mac or Linux, but solely because of the hardware. This is the very reason that DOSBox, ScummVM and other such programs have an aspect correction setting. To fix the distortion and letterboxing of improper aspect ratio.

To do what you want and to preserve the 4:3 VGA aspect ratio without using correction you will need to get an old VGA monitor and a graphics card that can handle it. At this point you might as well just put together an old dino of the period. This is one of the best sites around if you want to go that route.

The Sierra Help Pages -- New Sierra Game Installers -- Sierra Game Patches -- New Non-Sierra Game Installers

Reply 13 of 39, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Most CRT monitors also had per-resolution adjustment. In that case, aspect=false, fullresolution=original, scaler=normal2x, and stretch 640x400 vertically outward. I don't know what's kicking your res to 1024x768. Surely you don't have a conflicting config or frontend somewhere doing that?

Could be really anal and claim VGA monitors doesn't support actual 320x200 at all 😀

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 14 of 39, by jwt27

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I'm guessing the Intel drivers are holding you back here. I've never had any luck setting custom resolutions on these, they blindly go with whatever EDID tells them.
Best thing to try would be Powerstrip, if it supports your graphics chipset.

Any VGA CRT should be able to display 320x200 (or really, 320x400) at the correct 4:3 aspect ratio. I know my Eizo can actually display 200 line resolutions without doublescan, but it doesn't look too pretty with each scanline spaced 1.5mm apart.

WANTED - Manuals/drivers for:

  • Tecmar Graphics Master
  • Paradise Autoswitch EGA 350 (EGA1A)

Reply 15 of 39, by photokoi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

So I downloded the latest Powerstrip and it definately gives a lot more options, like 800x500 and 640x400. Howver, the problem aint solved.

640x400 only works with 120hz refresh rate, and even so, the actual picture doesnt reach the edges of the screen, so its completely pillarboxed which is annoying. On the CRT there are obviously settings for adjusting the picture horizontly and vertically, but the horizontal one is at it's max so it still has an inch or 2 to get to the the edge of the monitor. And, I can't get dosbox to give me 640x400 at 120hz. I dont know how to adjust that, and as such the monitor doesnt actually go to 640x400, which is again mysterious.

Right now the best looking on is using 800x500, fitting it on the screen, and the games looks perfect, no scaling, perfect pixels etc., but, since I am using normal2x scaler, the actual games being 640x400, the games dont use the whole resolution, which I understand why. 320x200 it still impossible for some mysterious reason.

I am going to keep experimenting but this is not over yet! Let me know if you guys have ideas.

Reply 16 of 39, by jwt27

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

IIRC there's a doublescan option hidden somewhere in Powerstrip, but I may be mistaken. Another option would be to make a virtual 320x200 resolution in 640x400 to "simulate" doublescan. Powerstrip has size/position controls too, right next to the advanced timings list.

Also keep in mind most DOS games run at either 70 or 60 Hz. You'll probably want to make custom resolutions at 140 and 120Hz (or 70 and 60, if you don't mind the eyestrain) to get vsync to work properly.

WANTED - Manuals/drivers for:

  • Tecmar Graphics Master
  • Paradise Autoswitch EGA 350 (EGA1A)

Reply 17 of 39, by photokoi

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

For some reason, when PowerStrip says to put 640x400 @75hz, it just makes everything bigger and blurrier using the 1024x768 resolution.640x400 only works with 120hz, which is weird. Other than that, I can't find a way to use the monitor how its supposed to be used for these games, which is ridculous

Reply 19 of 39, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

To be honest, if you are that particular about how the game looks, why not play it on a 386 or 486 DOS computer.

YouTube, Facebook, Website