Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

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Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2014-12-01 @ 18:37

These days I've been busy creating ISO+OGG images of some of my games. In order to get started, however, I needed some newbie advice which I couldn't get from VOGONS, so I imagined a small FAQ was in order...

1) Why would I want to create ISO+OGG images from my games?

Tha main advantage of doing the conversion is disk space. A regular CD image (ISO, BIN/CUE, etc.) can take up to 700 Mb of valuable disk space. An ISO+OGG image will take much less, because the audio data will be compressed.

How much space you'll save depends on how much space in the CD-ROM is data and how much is audio. The more data, the less compression.

A rule of thumb is to expect more space saving from older games.


2) What games can I convert to ISO+OGG?

Obviously, games which store their music in CD Audio format. You'll know you have one of those when you insert it and Windows tells you it's a mixed format CD. That is, one or more data tracks plus CD Audio.

You also have an incomplete list of DOS games using CD Audio here.


3) What do I need?

a) Games in CD-ROM format.

b) A software that rips separately data and audio tracks. I used TurboRip. UPDATED LINK

c) A software to convert WAVE files into OGG. I used Format Factory.


4) This is how I do it...

a) Insert your CD-ROM...

b) Start TurboRip. You'll be prompted for the number of your CD-ROM drive (usually it's the first one) and a base filename.

Image

The ripping process will start inmediately.

When you're done, you'll end up with a new folder with contents similar to these:

Image

c) Now you send the WAV files to FormatFactory. When prompted for an exit format, choose OGG.

You can delete the WAV files when done.

d) Now edit the CUE file with a text editor like Notepad. Do the following changes:

- Change every instance of WAVE (in capitals) to MP3 (also in capitals)

- Change every instance of .wav to .ogg

- Exit and save. You're done.

Now you can use the CUE file to mount this image under DOSBox. It should behave just as any other CD-ROM image, for a portion of its size.

Image


5) Troobleshooting.

a) TurboRip didn't finish ripping the CD-ROM.

I'm afraid you've come across a CD-ROM that uses a copy protection such as unreadable sectors / files. I suggest you to give up on this one.

EDIT: In some of these cases, I've observed you can still use AnyToISO and fre:ac to separately rip the data and audio portions of the CD. Together with the CUE file created by TurboRip they can save the day.

b) TurboRip finished creating an image, but now DOSBox tells me to insert the CD to play the game.

I'm afraid the CD-ROM uses some other type of copy protection. I suggest you to get a cracked game EXE from elsewhere. And no, I can't tell you where as it's probably against phorum rules.

So essentially, that's it. Feel free to share, offer program alternatives and other hints.
Last edited by Neville on 2017-8-01 @ 16:34, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby leileilol » 2014-12-01 @ 19:21

I've never heard of TurboRip being used for PC, though for the WAV->OGG conversion, oggdropxpd is enough for that, and if a batch is really needed, just some optimized oggenc. "Free Wave Converter!" programs are always fishy


The only other software I can think of that can extract just the data track as an image is IsoBuster but that's a registered function :(
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2014-12-01 @ 19:26

leileilol wrote:I've never heard of TurboRip being used for PC, though for the WAV->OGG conversion, oggdropxpd is enough for that, and if a batch is really needed, just some optimized oggenc. "Free Wave Converter!" programs are always fishy



This one I trust... contains no malware and I use it regularly for MP4 to AVI and FLAC to MP3 conversions.

Still, I was asking for program alternatives, so I'll take note.

EDIT: As for TurboRip, it was a personal recomendation from another board. I have to say I'm happy with how it turned up. It won't rip certain pretected disks, but it's efficient and extremely easy to use.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Norton Commander » 2014-12-02 @ 17:20

I keep FRE:AC on my flash drive and find that is does an excellent job ripping audio or mixed-mode CDs to WAV/OGG/FLAC/MP3/M4A etc. I just ripped music from Mortal Kombat Trilogy PC CD to OGG files.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Rekrul » 2014-12-15 @ 07:46

Neville wrote:1) Why would I want to create ISO+OGG images from my games?

Tha main advantage of doing the conversion is disk space. A regular CD image (ISO, BIN/CUE, etc.) can take up to 700 Mb of valuable disk space. An ISO+OGG image will take much less, because the audio data will be compressed.


If you use the Daum SVN version of DOSBox, you can convert the audio tracks to MP3 and save even more space. :)

Norton Commander wrote:I keep FRE:AC on my flash drive and find that is does an excellent job ripping audio or mixed-mode CDs to WAV/OGG/FLAC/MP3/M4A etc. I just ripped music from Mortal Kombat Trilogy PC CD to OGG files.


Unless I'm mistaken, FRE:AC won't rip the data track. In order to create BIN/CUE/Audio files for DOSBox, you need to be able to rip just the data track to a BIN file.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Norton Commander » 2014-12-16 @ 14:48

FRE:AC will not rip the data track, only the audio tracks. You will still need a utility like UltraISO or TurboRip to convert the CD/DVD to BIN/CUE files.

FRE:AC will allow you to skip the step of converting WAV->OGG/MP3 by ripping the audio tracks directly to OGG/MP3.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby bloodbat » 2014-12-17 @ 06:58

We've done a nice program to generate cue sheets for compressed audio images. You can find it here.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cuegen/
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby leileilol » 2014-12-17 @ 17:55

you'd think one would do a C program to split a bin/cue into bin/ogg/cue + cuesheet fixing by now....
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby bloodbat » 2014-12-26 @ 00:17

No C; but I guess you mean compress the audio as well? If so...I've been looking into some solutions but they tend to fuck up cross platform compatibility.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2014-12-27 @ 17:51

Added tip for the cases in which TurboRip doesn't finish creating the ISO+OGG files. Hopefully that will help some users.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby DrakeEdgewater » 2016-5-15 @ 11:48

Is it possible to rip a .cue/.bin pair to data and audio tracks (bin/iso & wav) on Mac OSX?
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2016-5-15 @ 12:16

I have no clue. Are there any other Mac users around?
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby DrakeEdgewater » 2016-5-15 @ 14:42

Ok I found the answer. Need to use BinChunker.

$ brew install bchunk
$ bchunk -w image.bin image.cue output

Rips Track 1 as data in .iso format. Wit the -w flag it creates the audio tracks in .wav format.

I then converted .wav to .ogg using ffmpeg and modified the cuesheet as per guide for compressed files - https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Cuesheet
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Intro, then Rant with Thanks, My Solution, 2 Questions at the end

Postby Nilex » 2017-7-31 @ 16:12

Having just stumbled upon my first mixed mode CD game image only yesterday I was pretty surprised DOSBox actually played audio tracks from the image mounted by Virtual CloneDrive. I did not expect DOSBox was capable of that. Sadly even after all the trickery of fooling the game to run without the image mounted, it did not play music. Naturally I began asking myself if there was a way to keep the music and ditch the bulky image file.

Short time later I learned there is a way but I couldn't find how. Began learning the difference between the ISO & BIN, wtf CUE file is for (never too late they say) and audio ripping. Theory was there but without concrete examples I couldn't do anything with it.
The theory part mostly came from https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Cuesheet and I was hoping this topic were to provide the example. Alas, things in life don't come so easy as I'll explain in my Rant section. These two, and one YT vid (only marginally helped) were the only pages where I found relevant information about this subject sadly.

Right now the first post is a mess, at least if you a newbie on the subject like I was. I've been three-fold misguided by this topic and sent on a 5 hour wild goose chase...
1. TurboRip is gone. The author chickened out... Due to specifics on which game data I turn into ISO I don't care about the program but I did need it to see produced CUE. If that worked it would be the end of it. Case closed. Only thing it does now is raise more questions I suggest to OP so adjust his 1st post.
2. Now my only fallback for CUE example, the freakkin Cue Sheet Generator from later post (viewtopic.php?p=394555&sid=246c4a25ca47a1bb2290ff2ce31d5595#p394555) produces faulty CUE which can't be mounted by DOSBox... Turns out the offending piece is "2352". This MUST be "2048" otherwise the mount will fail. Previous wiki link helped me figure this out...
Is this program creating CUEs only to be read by real audio CD players? It sure as hell doesn't work for DOSBox.
3. The title man... is wrong. ISO+OGG isn't an image. Try to imagine how much confusion this created for me. What it lead me to believe I had to create was a single BIN with data+ogg inside with a regular CUE beside. Fak you. Call it game data ISO + compressed audio track files, or something.

That was only meant so you two get an idea how pissed I was after hours or frustration and a headache just before bedtime. I'm good now especially since I figured it out on my own. Who knows if I'd done it without this topic, maybe I'd keep looking and find a better one. Whatever, what is done is done, Thank you anyway. I know you meant the best and how would you know the link is gone, right? I do suggest you two to update your shit though.

Here's my own solution in case that doesn't happen. Will save some newbie hours...
Read your 1. - 3. from 1st post but start with:
4. Create game data ISO (ignores audio tracks)
I use ImgBurn simply because I already had it installed but AnyToISO also does it. All the program has to do is to create an ISO image out of physical CD or mounted virtual CD image file. For B) it should also be able to create an ISO out of selected folders/files. Both can.
A) Insert game CD or, more likely, a CD image (BIN/CUE combo, if it's an ISO then you're in wrong topic pal)
B) Now you can either go to C) or... Install game and only turn into ISO that game data (folders/files) which hadn't installed (even after choosing MAX install) as is mostly the case. This will result in a smaller ISO than if you simply ISO'd whole A). Roughly ~50% smaller.
C) if B) sounds too complex simply create an ISO from A)

5. Ripp audio tracks & compress them in DOSBox readable format
Do this from the CD/BIN, not the ISO. Current program that does this nicely and without registry footprint (afaik) is FRE:AC, mentioned earlier. Powerful but simple. I output to OGG, choose whichever compression satisfies you. Setting 10 (least compression, best quality) produced 35% of the size of original CD track while Default of 6 made it about 15%. Even as music noob I heard clear difference between CD audio and 6. Just to provide some reference.

Now you have ISO and bunch of compressed music OGG files. Now you shall create a CUE file out of that.

6. Making the CUE
Download freakkin Cue Sheet Generator (https://sourceforge.net/projects/cuegen/) - no reg footprint again, isn't that nice. Tick on Use Data Track and load Data Track file - your ISO you crated earlier. Set Ending track number, adjust Filename and click Generate a the top. Now you will see you have more file name adjusting eh? You'll figure it out, lol. Idea is to have .ogg file names match. You can edit ones in CUE or real ones, doesn't matter.
Important part is change "2352" to "2048". Don't forget to save the file (remove spammy REM line while you're at it). I put same name as ISO but don't know if that matters.

All that's left is to mount the CUE image using imgmount command. You know the drill. Lastly, there is no trouble shooting - this shit will work.

Couple of last questions for anyone still reading (yeah right):
- is compressed flac instead of OGG format readable by DOSBox. E.g. "Track02.flac" MP3 <- what to put instead MP3?
- is it possible to merge ISO (data) and OGG into one BIN&CUE or whatever so I don't have to hoard dozen+ OGGs?
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2017-7-31 @ 16:18

I'm sorry you had to go though all that work, man.

If the phorum mods allow it, I can attach the latest version of TurboRip here. Would that be acceptable?
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Serious Callers Only » 2017-8-01 @ 11:45

I just use bchunk (on a cue/bin) and oggenc and then edit the cue file myself (the most troublesome part). Then again, i'm on linux, and editing cues is not exactly intuitive if you're a noob.

I've also noticed that dosbox will take aaages more to imgmount a cue/iso/ogg image than the cue/bin, but fortunately it appears to be all at the start, not mysterious slowdowns during gameplay later on.

One thing that kinda annoys me about this is that mount dir -t cdrom doesn't support these mixed mode (passing a cue with a dir instead of a iso to mount).

These 'dir cd mounts' are my strategy to not duplicate game data when a new external game engine supports, so for example, because the game has cd audio, i can't setup tomb raider data, to both support Openlara or the voodoo version without duplication, which i could have if this was supported (along with changing cds on mount dir -t cdrom mounts on some cases, for example RAMA and scummvm).
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2017-8-01 @ 13:18

The mods didn't say anything, so I've attached the latest version of TurboRip to the first message. Ignore virus warnings, the file gives a false positive with some antivirus programs.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Nilex » 2017-8-01 @ 13:58

@Serious Callers Only
Thanks for dropping those tidbits of information, it's reassuring for me to hear experienced veterans have the same hickups as I who just dove into this. Putting the finishing touches manually in the CUE and imgmount slowdown at the "cold start" also happens here, on Win OS.

Luckily for me the games I'm interested in that require this level of involvement are few and far between (pheew). But comparing my collection with the list in the OP I noticed I missed a couple with CD-Audio and will have to go back to (shit).

Though I have to say seeing the fruit of your labor working flawlessly with 0 missing content at quarter of the size made it all worth it.

@Neville
Thanks, that is most crucial update. Should resolve all potential problems for newbies like I had.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Qbix » 2017-8-01 @ 14:22

Neville wrote:The mods didn't say anything, so I've attached the latest version of TurboRip to the first message. Ignore virus warnings, the file gives a false positive with some antivirus programs.


programs that give false positives are kind of annoying, as they get the site on dangerous sites lists.. It happened a few times before and it is quite some work to get the site declared safe again.
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Re: Best way to create ISO+OGG images?

Postby Neville » 2017-8-01 @ 15:21

Sorry about that. I thought that being a freeware program all would be OK. Is it OK if I provide a link to another website carrying the program instead?
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