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First post, by guest

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I've got numerous trap/fault failures in instruction tests that I've not posted yet. Many deal with the traps generated when an operand spans the end of a segment boundary (ex. loading a word from offset xFFFF).

This is absolutely *NOT* an "odd condition" that occurs only in "buggy" apps. Many apps written for the ABSOLUTE FASTEST performance actually RELIED on these trap behaviors working properly!!!

Here's why: Suppose you're traversing a linked list of hundreds or thousands of items. The cost to check for the end of this list in your traversal loop can run into hundreds or thousands of EXTRA instructions PER traversal of the list! Its FASTER to make sure during initial list creation that the end item in the list is simply a pointer that's going to cause an exception when its referenced. Then you use the exception handler's being hit as the indicator that you are at the end of the list.

Now, if DOSBOX isn't implementing these traps correctly, then the app isn't going to see the end of its list and its just going to die a horrible death due to massive data corruptions and spin off into the weeds until the machine locks up, trashes a drive, or some other unsavory demise.

Reply 1 of 14, by Harekiet

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Well then those apps won't on dosbox, like who cares?
I certainly won't make dosbox any slower for some ancient dos apps, and stop posting every fucking message like it's end of the world.

Reply 3 of 14, by mirekluza

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It would be a good idea to tell us some real applications which suffer from this.
If you tell here names of a few popular games/applications with this problem, then you may be succesful in persuading developers to make fix. Till then it is rather theoretic problem with rather low priority.
There were cases of functionality which was originally judged as unneeded but which was later added (because people kept appearing here with applications using the functionality).
The speed is critical for DOSBOX and compromises are being made to make games playable on current computers. I remember long time ago a problem of CGA emulation: author of another DOS emulator was talking about implementing all details and timing correctly (unlike DOSBOX) - good idea, but later he reported that he found out that although it worked it was very slow... The emulation can be demanding task.

Mirek

Reply 4 of 14, by MiniMax

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@Harekiet - Did you have a bad day at work? Mr. Guest found a couple of errors in the way DOSBox emulates/handles certain instructions and exceptions. As a good Net citizen he reported them. I did not hear him/her whinning about a fix tomorrow (except for not having received a confirmation mail with a password - which could be true or false - I don't know).

@Kaminar - I do not see anything pathetic about the posts. There is a short explanation, and there is code for anyone to verify the problem. I would love if my coworkers and end-users would leave such precise and reproduceable error reports. Do you work at the same place as Harekiet?

@mirekluza - I agree. A good compromise would be to put a small comment in the relevant part of DOSBox source code, acknowledging the incomplete emulating, citing concerns about the performance hit a more complete emulation would cause to DOSBox.
--
MiniMax

DOSBox 60 seconds guide | How to ask questions
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Reply 5 of 14, by guest

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You can be damn sure I'm not going to pay much attention to testing this product in the future because of the exceptionally rude treatment I got here simply for reporting some problems.

(BTW, this forum has yet to to send my a confirmation email on my registration, so I'm still anonymous)

In scanning the CVS sources, there's plainly many opportunities for significant speed improvements -- as much as 10X in some cases (one of my specialties is performance work) -- but then again, why should I bother when the development group has such a piss poor attitude?

Let'em flail in the darkness, there's lots of other projects in the world other than this one.

Reply 6 of 14, by Kaminari

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MiniMax wrote:

As a good Net citizen he reported them.

No offense, but perhaps you can explain to me what a good Net citizenship should be about these days?

Read his flood of posts again, pay close attention to the 'subtle' way our Guest dude suggests in a nutshell the DOSBox team is a pile of dyslexic coding monkeys, and come back tell me again who's rude here. That's what I call a rude and pathetic behaviour. If that guy expects to get a little respect, he should start by giving some. DOSBox was not built in a day.

Reply 7 of 14, by guest

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Flood? There's dozens of other problems I found. I chose to report only a few and see what kind of reception I would get. That being CLEARLY SETTLED, coding monkeys is your accusation not mine.

The process is broken when egos get involved in fixing bugs. Code simply is what it is. Some good, some bad. All evolves. Brain damage and brilliance coexist universally.

Denial and ego is not helpful to the evolution of correctness or good performance.

Reply 8 of 14, by Guest

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hey kaminari... you being a insensitive lout and a moron... you are the one flooding a decent technical forum... do i sense some insecurity problem with you? you got a big
ego inversely proportional to being progressive. big egos usually means small heads ( on both of your heads!) hehehe

nothing personal... sometimes, things like these liven the usually boring forum. peace man. 😀 nothing to flood really... this forum
moves slow enough to allow some fun.

anyway, dont be personal here... just be technical. besides, i need help. 😀

i've downloaded the source codes on version .61 but i could get it to compile. can anyone tell me where to find the complete codes and the compiler they used to compile it?

my problem after that is try to make it work with japanese fonts and evaluate the RS232 communications capability.

this is my work. so, i need help from big heads with a lot lesser ego.

we got a japanese client who got a dos-based lattice C system that need it to run in XP and uses RS232 for external communications. so far, neko and dosbox dont support it (yet). but i need to evaluate if our team here can do the adjustments on a limited time.

actually, our company was thinking of outsourcing it to your dosbox development team since they already know the ins and out of dosbox but you are not a company that we could pay.

please email your responses to jbillena@tspi.com.ph

i got so many windows open that i might miss your replies.

thanks to all. more power to dosbox.

Reply 9 of 14, by zuzma

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You're posting in the wrong forum for this stuff anyway. You could have waited till you got an account then posted this in the dev forum or the games/apps one. Heck you probably could have just posted them on the sourceforge bug report page too.

Edit: It took me about 3 seconds to get a confirmation email from vogons using my hotmail account. Make sure you entered your email in correctly and that your emails spam filter isn't bouncing the message.

Reply 10 of 14, by Kaminari

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> Brain damage and brilliance coexist universally.

There's some truth in those clumsy words. You're in fact a perfect living evidence 😀

You're out of luck: your insults have no effect on my moronic ego. On the other hand, calling me names out of primitive frustration definitely doesn't make you look serious and is not a brilliant proof of humility either. I've seen many talented coders come over this board and offer their help, suggestions and constructive criticism (CanadaCow and others will concur) -- none of them were as bad-mannered as you are.

I'd love to say you're one of a kind, but I'd be overly optimistic there 😉

> besides, i need help.

I can't agree more.

Reply 11 of 14, by MiniMax

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@zuzma + Kaminari: Please check the writing style of Guest & guest, paying special attention to the use/lack of proper capitalisation at start of a sentence.

Also check the e-mail address supplied by guest in the thread here, and the one supplied by Guest here.

Same person?
--
MiniMax - "The truth is hidden in the details"

Reply 13 of 14, by Qbix

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DOSBox Author

Guys and girls

Don't troll on each other.
We all had a bad start.

I've activated your tonyi account here at vogons. so you can post under that name.

Thank you all,
Peter

Water flows down the stream
How to ask questions the smart way!