What is this Red Boost?
The angle between R-Y and B-Y is not orthogonal, but more than 90 degrees. Basically turns greenish browns into solid browns, and pinkish blues into solid blues. You could also say it makes the picture look "warmer". It has been discussed in this thread a few pages before.
And why it won't be included in DOSBox?
It would be even another hotkey to add, and the gain is questionable.
If you need to adjust the hues then start with the factory settings for the CGA, PCjr.(if differnent from CGA) and Tandy. People should start with what these cards would have looked like on a properly calibrated composite monitor, (too bad IBM never marketed one) and then go from there.
wrote:According to the screenshots you sent me, the Tandy's output is basically like the CGA's, only the hue is 120 degrees off (i.e. you've got to set the algorithm's hue control to +120 to make it look like the Tandy. I've verified it with that "Blue Angels" game you mentioned). I guess the PCjr one somewhere within that range as well. By the way, do you still own a PCjr? I'm asking because the MESS people are lacking a complete image of the PCjr's ROM BIOS.
Neat; I was never able to get the Tandy colors to look right by adjusting the hue, my tv must not allow me to adjust it far enough or some such...I think the PCjr might be a different issue; it looks like the palette doesn't always get set correctly in the 320x200 mode; with the 640x200 mode the colors looked pretty close to the regular IBM CGA.
I do still have a PCjr; I have no idea how to retrieve the rom images though.
Neat; I was never able to get the Tandy colors to look right by adjusting the hue, my tv must not allow me to adjust it far enough or some such...
Most TV sets only allow adjustment as far as +/- 45 degrees. To get the Tandy to look like the CGA, you'll need 120 degrees... 😀
I think the PCjr might be a different issue; it looks like the palette doesn't always get set correctly in the 320x200 mode; with the 640x200 mode the colors looked pretty close to the regular IBM CGA.
The game "BC's Quest for Tires" comes with four executable files:
MAINC: 640x200 composite for PC
MAINR: 320x200 4-color RGB for PC
MAINJRC: 640x200 composite for PCjr
MAINJRR: 320x200 4-color RGB for PCjr
So instead of creating a version to just use the new 16 color RGB mode, they updated the CGA modes to look right on the PCjr! 😒 Unfortunately the disk image I have is damaged right within the MAINJRC file, so I can't check if the output is any different from the MAINC executable. MAINJRR looks exactly like MAINR though.
I do still have a PCjr; I have no idea how to retrieve the rom images though.
Check your email. 😉
wrote:why Red Boost won't be included in DOSBox?
It would be even another hotkey to add,
Well, if +Hue is on F12, -Hue is on Shift-F12, and RGB/Composite switch is on F11, you still have Shift-F11 left 😀
and the gain is questionable.
Well, only a more accurate emulation perhaps. However, support for the Serenia/Ulysses composite mode is more important for achieving a more accurate composite emulation, and it's not emulated yet.
wrote:Check your email. 😉
I don't see anything new in my inbox, did you send to my gmail address?
Between the PC (3), XT/ Portable (3), PCjr.(1), AT (3), Convertible (1) and XT 286 (1) there are ten BIOSes. I would prefer an emulator that emulated each systematically rather than the aptly named MESS. I would want an emulator that would allow you to configure the Floppy Disks, Hard Disks, RAM, Graphics and Sound Cards, co-processors, serial and parallel ports with real accuracy, including limitations:
IBM PC - Five full-length 8-bit ISA slots, a cassette interface and a maximum of 256KB on the motherboard. Two full height 5.25" bays. 83 Key Keyboard and 360KB Floppy Drives. First two BIOSes use a 16-64KB boards, third BIOS uses 64-256KB board. 8 Interrupts/4 DMA channels. Keyboard + cassette connector only.
IBM PC XT - Eight 8-bit ISA slots, 6 full-length, six full-length. First BIOS comes with 128-256KB, 10MB Hard Disk. Two full height 5.25" bays. 8 Interrupts/4 DMA channels. 101 Enhanced Keyboard, 720KB Floppy Drive, 20MB Hard Drive and 640KB on motherboard support with the Second BIOS. Keyboard connector only.
IBM PCjr. - 64 or 128KB. Enhanced CGA only. Internal Modem not Hayes Compatible. 8 Interupts/No DMA controller. Two 64KB cartridge slots. 62 Key Keyboard only. One 360KB Drive. Buzzer, not Speaker. Ports for Light Pen, two joysticks, serial, cassette, composite video, audio, one sidecar port.
IBM Portable PC - All comments I made above for the XT, First BIOS apply, except this came with a CGA, which connected to a 9" amber monochrome composite monitor.
IBM PC AT - Six 16-bit ISA slots, two 8-bit ISA slots, all full-length. Two full height 5.25" bays. First BIOS supports 14 types of Hard Disk. 128-256KB. 1.2 MB and 360KB Floppy Drives supported. 20 MB Hard Disk. Second BIOS throttles CPU speed to 6MHz, supports 720KB Floppy Drive, 512KB, 22 types of Hard Disk. 30MB Hard Disk. Third BIOS throttles CPU speed to 8MHz, supports 1.44 MB Floppy Disk and 101 Enhanced Keyboard. 16 Interrupts/8 DMAs. Real time Clock.
IBM PC Convertible - 80C88 processor, static RAM, 256KB, upgradeable to 512KB. CGA adapter built-in. 640x200 monochrome LCD displaym but can connect to a composite/RGB monitor. Internal modem, parallel/serial adapter available. 78-Key Keyboard. Two 720KB drives.
IBM PC XT 286 - Five 16-bit ISA slots, three 8-bit ISA slots, six full-length. 640KB on Motherboard. Supports 1.44 MB Floppy Disk and 101 Enhanced Keyboard. 16 Interrupts/8 DMAs. Comes with 20MB Hard Disk. 6MHz 286 with 0 wait states (All ATs have 1 wait state.) 24 Hard Disk types support. Real Time clock.
wrote:Well, only a more accurate emulation perhaps.
No, it's a nonstandard behavior actually.
wrote:I don't see anything new in my inbox, did you send to my gmail address?
Yes. Maybe it got classified as spam. I sent you a Private Message.
wrote:I would prefer an emulator that emulated each systematically rather than the aptly named MESS."
Write one.
I downloaded the latest CVS build from aep (October 16), and it seems that out of all of the things discussed in this thread, only the b&w CGA mode was corrected. Are there still plans to include the Hue control and the RGB/composite switch in future builds? I also looked at this list and saw that c2woody fixed the text problem in the KQ1Tandy title screen yesterday. Will this fix be included in the next CVS build?
By the way, what is the correct 4-colors RGB CGA palette for SCI0 games (driver CGA320C.DRV)? It seems that there was a palette change between older and newer versions of both DOSBox and MESS. This is the palette in DOSBox 0.62 and newer versions (machine=cga) and in MESS 0.90 and newer versions:
And this is the palette in DOSBox 0.61 (machine=cga) and MESS 0.89 and older versions:
Note that you'll also get the second palette on a regular VGA screen and in any version of DOSBox as long as machine=vga.
By the way, what is the correct 4-colors RGB CGA palette for SCI0 games (driver CGA320C.DRV)?
black/cyan/red/white (first picture).
> black/cyan/red/white (first picture).
Wrong. vga cards display it with pink, cga cards with red. So dosbox is correct.
> only the b&w CGA mode was corrected.
So?
Wrong. vga cards display it with pink, cga cards with red. So dosbox is correct.
Originally I was unsure whether the intensity bit affected the Mode 5 colors. Without intensity, the color palette would be cyan/red/light gray. With intensity it changes to light cyan/pink/bright white.
In DOSBox, all games (Wizardry 1-5, Sierra SCI0 games) that use Mode 5 use the intense palette with the cga option. With the vga option, they all use the light cyan/light magenta/light gray palette. The palette remains intense but is not set correctly.
Interestingly, Chuck Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer uses the light cyan/pink/bright white palette with the cga option but with the vga option it uses the cyan/red/light gray palette. So in vga the mode can be set, at least.
The intensity bit also works on a CGA in mode 5.
CGA320C just sets mode 5 without sending any palette at all, so you will get the mode's default palette. The PC BIOS writes 0x30 to 0x3d9 for all modes except 6, therefore, the default palette, and thus the correct CGA320C one, is the intense one.
If DosBox displays it with "machine=vga" without intensity, then that's wrong.
wrote:> black/cyan/red/white (first picture). Wrong. vga cards display it with pink, cga cards with red. So dosbox is correct. > onl […]
> black/cyan/red/white (first picture).
Wrong. vga cards display it with pink, cga cards with red. So dosbox is correct.
> only the b&w CGA mode was corrected.
So?
So... obviously you didn't get what he wrote.
> If DosBox displays it with "machine=vga" without intensity,
> then that's wrong.
No, dosbox acts exacly like a real vga card with a vga bios.
It's correct that this is not what you'll get with a cga card.
But that's just a result of the vga card/bios being only
cga-compatible and NOT a subset of the cga/cga bios
functions.
> So... obviously you didn't get what he wrote.
I did.
wrote:> If DosBox displays it with "machine=vga" without intensity,
> then that's wrong.No, dosbox acts exacly like a real vga card with a vga bios.
Yup, if SQ3 is set to 4 colors CGA and loaded on a real VGA screen, you get the pink palette, not the red one.
wrote:> black/cyan/red/white (first picture).
Wrong. vga cards display it with pink, cga cards with red. So dosbox is correct.
Well, I asked what is the correct CGA palette, so NewRisingSun wasn't wrong, he basically said what you said.
Since I finished SQ3 originally on a CGA, I tried to remember what it looked like. Well, seeing the tunnel two screens to the right from the screen that I posted, immediately reminded me - it was red, not pink (I don't remember Roger's hair being white, however, but it was 15 years ago). It seems though that other games do use the other palette (black/cyan/pink/white). It's the palette used in AGI games (but in them you can change the palette completely with Ctrl-R) and Lucasfilm games, or at least it is according to DOSBox and Servo's moby screenshots (see here and here). Is that correct?
I also noticed that in DOSBox 0.63 when machine=vga CGA graphics are noticeably darker than when machine=cga, but in the CVS it was changed, and now the display is bright in both modes, so I guess the display is not really supposed to be darker.
By the way, why doesn't Ctrl-C always work in DOSBox? It works in SQ3 to bring up that weird calculator thing, and it can also be used in Countdown for quitting the game, but it doesn't work in the Lucasarts games, so you can't exit back to DOSBox from them.
Since I finished SQ3 originally on a CGA, I tried to remember what it looked like. Well, seeing the tunnel two screens to the right from the screen that I posted, immediately reminded me - it was red, not pink (I don't remember Roger's hair being white, however, but it was 15 years ago). It seems though that other games do use the other palette (black/cyan/pink/white). It's the palette used in AGI games (but in them you can change the palette completely with Ctrl-R) and Lucasfilm games, or at least it is according to DOSBox and Servo's moby screenshots (see here and here). Is that correct?
AGI games use the red/green/brown palette, SCI0 games, (except for KQ4) use the L. Cyan/Pink/White palette. That so-called "alternative palette" seen in the SQ3 screenshot is really designed for the composite video mode. Maniac Mansion does use the L. Cyan/L. Magenta/White palette exclusively, regardless of whether you connect the video to a composite or RGB monitor and I am satisfied with NewRisingSun's explanation of why it looks like ass in the composite color mode.
CGA320C just sets mode 5 without sending any palette at all, so you will get the mode's default palette. The PC BIOS writes 0x30 to 0x3d9 for all modes except 6, therefore, the default palette, and thus the correct CGA320C one, is the intense one.
So, the default, startup CGA palette in Mode 4 is really L. Cyan/L. Magenta/White + Background (Black).
SCI0 games, (except for KQ4) use the L. Cyan/Pink/White palette. That so-called "alternative palette" seen in the SQ3 screenshot is really designed for the composite video mode.
I don't know what you mean by that last sentence. SCI0 games except early KQ4 use Mode 5 (not 4), which on a CGA results in Light Cyan/Light Red/White.
wrote:Between the PC (3), XT/ Portable (3), PCjr.(1), AT (3), Convertible (1) and XT 286 (1) there are ten BIOSes. I would prefer an emulator that emulated each systematically rather than the aptly named MESS. I would want an emulator that would allow you to configure the Floppy Disks, Hard Disks, RAM, Graphics and Sound Cards, co-processors, serial and parallel ports with real accuracy, including limitations:
Sorry to bring this back up... I just wanted to mention that I've seen this sort of thing implemented in Amiga and MSX emulators using a user-configurable profile system. I think the vast majority of DOSBox users wouldn't really get much out of that level of configurability, but I'm sure that nobody would object to someone independently developing it - just don't expect Qbix to do it.
