ah ok, its indeed alot more complicated then i thought then. thanks for the reply

Have you all tried aspect=true option for correct aspect ratio?

No, actually. But I've just tried it now. The result is that Dosbox crashes when starting a table...

ive also just tried the aspect=true setting, doesnt work it has still the same problem...

Wow, can't wait to compile DosBOX with the vertical tilt patch, as that has been bugging mee too forever!

Actually, I did post about this some time (=~months-years) ago, but it seems that I can't find that tread anymore.

Anyways, great work! The single most annoying bug has been eliminated from DosBOX! 😁

Byt the way, when will this get into the real DosBOX, so that we don't need to patch anymore? Is it in the CVS yet?

Also, I would like to add, halfgaar, that:

When tilting now, you can see the top of the table at the bottom 😀

I remember (IIRC) seeing this in real DOS, too.

Byt the way, when will this get into the real DosBOX, so that we don't need to patch anymore? Is it in the CVS yet?

I have submitted the bugreport, but haven't gotten a response yet.

Hmm, I tried it with the patch and it is almost as it used to be back on old DOS 😉

I do, however, think now that I see it in DosBOX, that it didn't actually show the top of the table at bottom when tilting, but instead, it showed some garbage. I also believe that the game didn't change the screen resolution in DOS when tilting - or, maybe it was supposed to do, but didn't on most graphics cards. Most monitors also would probably resync if it did, and I am certain that at least that didn't happen on a real DOS.

Also, IIRC, I think that the game runs correctly without the doublewidth=false;. But if I understod you correctly that's what you thought also when you recalled harder 😉

Anyways, if we (or the developers) want this game to run as it closely as it used to on a real DOS, then maybe someone with some antique computer(s) should check what really happened. At least I don't trust my memory that well 😉

Hmm, I tried it with the patch and it is almost as it used to be back on old DOS

Almost? What's still wrong then? To me, it's perfect.

I do, however, think now that I see it in DosBOX, that it didn't actually show the top of the table at bottom when tilting, but instead, it showed some garbage. I also believe that the game didn't change the screen resolution in DOS when tilting - or, maybe it was supposed to do, but didn't on most graphics cards. Most monitors also would probably resync if it did, and I am certain that at least that didn't happen on a real DOS.

I do see the top of the table in dosbox when tilting.

I also think that a monitor would have resynced in DOS when the resolution would have changed. That's why I was quite surprised the mode switching turned out to be the problem.

Also, IIRC, I think that the game runs correctly without the doublewidth=false;. But if I understod you correctly that's what you thought also when you recalled harder

I played it so often in dosbox that I had gotten used to the stretched display, but it's actually correct when the doublewidth=false line is there. Use the ball as reference. The ball should be round, not oval.

As for how it used to look in DOS: more like dosbox with doublewidth=false, but because most CRTs (especially the old ones back then) don't display the aspect ratio of a resolution correctly without adjusting, it's possible it was a bit off. But I am very sure it was not streched to full width. In DOS, I was always a bit annoyed by the fact the it didn't fill the screen either horizontally or vertically.

Almost? What's still wrong then? To me, it's perfect.

Ah well, I was kindof splitting hairs, sorry 😉

I actually meant just the garbage (vs. seeing the top of the table in DosBOX), as I remember something weird going on at the uppper and/or lower edge of screen when tilting in a real DOS (but it was something that didn't look similar to tilting the table in DosBOX). Maybe I was a bit unclear about it. And, I also noticed, that there is something still wrong with the resolution, but couldn't really put my finger on it (as it has been years from when I played it under real DOS).

But it is perfect, playable-wise.

I played it so often in dosbox that I had gotten used to the stretched display, but it's actually correct when the doublewidth=false line is there. Use the ball as reference. The ball should be round, not oval.

But I do think the ball wasn't actually totally round in plain DOS, either.

As for how it used to look in DOS: more like dosbox with doublewidth=false, but because most CRTs (especially the old ones back then) don't display the aspect ratio of a resolution correctly without adjusting, it's possible it was a bit off. But I am very sure it was not streched to full width. In DOS, I was always a bit annoyed by the fact the it didn't fill the screen either horizontally or vertically.

I partially agree.

I do think that it didn't fill the screen (at least vertically, but neither horizontally) correctly on DOS, but I still think it looks more like the real thing without doublewidth=false. But, then on the other hand, it could be that I have just gotten too much used to playing it on DosBOX myself, too, and forgotten what it used to look like. And, also, I do recall I used to tweak my monitor geometry quite a bit when playing Psycho Pinball (and I don't think I had any other applications using the same resolution, so I'm not really sure what it should've looked like). That's why I suggested someone looking at it in a real DOS, as I admitted - my memory is a weak reference point.

But also, I do think that the game uses a weird way of hacking the resolution, and it could be possible it just didn't look the same on every VGA hardware (oh, and of course, the monitors, as you said!) in DOS. I always thought there was something wrong with the resolution Psycho Pinball used to run in a real plain DOS, anyways. Well, I'm just guessing, I know nothing about VGA hardware or programming, but there just seems to be something that caused our experiences with the original game to be different. Anyways, I'm happier with the patch without doublewith=false 😉

Either way hopefully this can be configured in the future, when this fix gets in a real DosBOX release. Then everyone can play the way they wan't it.

and I don't think I had any other applications using the same resolution, so I'm not really sure what it should've looked like)

I was thinking that too, but decided not to say it, because it occured to me that monitors back then didn't store image settings per vscan+hscan combo. They just had analog controls, and messing up one resolution meant messing up the others too. Therefore, I played the game with monitor settings that made 640x480 look OK.

Either way hopefully this can be configured in the future, when this fix gets in a real DosBOX release. Then everyone can play the way they wan't it.

It would be kind of a strange configuration option. There is no room for subjectivism: it should either be stretched or not. I really think it shouldn't be stretched. As you can read above, I had to get used to the narrow table, but now, I'm totally used to it. Also the fact that the ball is round as opposed to oval, makes me think this resolution is the proper one.

Can anybody send me (a link to) a compiled version that has this fix?
I can't seem to get it compiled.

Much apreciated! 😀

I don't feel like re-reading the entire thread, so I may say things that have already been said, but the current Dosbox version includes the tilt problem fix. It doesn't, however, include the doublewidth fix. I didn't really understand the argumentation as to why it wasn't included. Anyway, I keep a custom build of Dosbox handy for Psycho Pinball. It's a Linux build, which is probably not what you're looking for, is it?

1if (height <= 367 && height > 354) 
2{
3height = 367;
4doublewidth=false;
5}

That thing? Randomly adding doublewidth stuff might of course fix some
issues but is not considered a fix nor a workaround that has the slightest
chance of being added.

And the tilt thing has really been worked around (0.72 should work fine) by
using a more advanced screen height change delaying, much like what you
proposed in the bug report text.

There is something I don't understand about the doublewidth. When taking a screenshot of psycho pinball, even the screenshot appears too wide; it's 640 pixels wide, when it should run at 320. "Doublewidth", which defaults to true it seems, seems to imply that dosbox multiplies the horizontal resolution by 2, which yields wrong results. When does doublewidth yield proper results; where it is used for?

640 sounds fine for a highres (s)vga mode, don't know.

doublewidth/height is used to allow for some fast scaler operations,
not sure if they are used for something else, too.

But it shouldn't run at a high res mode like that. When running the game on a real dos pc, the table is centered on the screen with black bars on each side, which wouldn't be the case with a 640 mode. Even changing the screen size dials on the monitor couldn't get the image spread over the complete width. In fact, if I remember correctly, you could see the black-level gray of the projected CRT image only where the table was, so, the scanlines of the monitor didn't even reach the full width. But, as I said, I don't know if I remember correctly.

Yes, could be they're trying to force some square mode
(like that flashback's 256x256 mode).

wd wrote:

And the tilt thing has really been worked around (0.72 should work fine) by
using a more advanced screen height change delaying, much like what you
proposed in the bug report text.

When you say worked around what do you mean exactly? I don't want to sound rude but did anyone test this? Because in version 0.72 and recent CVS behavior is almost the same as before, if you hold the ball with flipper and press button for vertical tilt the screen still flickers and the flipper goes down and lets the ball go. This is not default behavior on real machine where flipper is not affected by pressing vertical tilt button and screen does not flicker.
If I'm wrong please accept my apologies as I have utmost respect for your work and this project.

Edit: Also tested with latest clean CVS build, default settings, on both low and high resolution mode, same behavior, when vertical tilt is pressed, window size changes, screen flickers and keyboard controls are reset. 😅

I can confirm what Miki Maus says.

I don't want to sound rude but did anyone test this?

Yes. Somewhen this did work.