VOGONS


Abandonware and Dosbox

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Reply 80 of 91, by Paratech

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I often woder why gaming companies can't set up a small server and off 1 free download for every "new" game you buy off of them, or include popular CDs with a game, I mean 1 extra CD with a game wouldn't kill 'em...

Just specify no tech support, no sharing it with others, it's for you to play at your own time, to get it running...

I know Bard's Tale came with the Bard's Tale 1-3 with no tech support, and there were a few other games that came that way...

And aren't the "new" Collections of Space Quest, Kings Quest, and Leisure Suit Larry running Dos Box?

I have the Roberta Williams Anthology and the Leisure Suit Larry Collection, I just need to buy the Space Quest Collection...

Reply 81 of 91, by catchaserguns

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I have a question on sierra games collections and Dosbox. I know that Dosbox is free and has a GNU license. bit can Sierra sell dosbox along with its games? Because when you buy either the King's Quest or Leisure Suit Larry Collection you are also buying a form of Dosbox. I guess they have version 0.63 on their disks. Can they legally do that with a GNU license? According to the license I read that the copywrite belongs to the people who made Dosbox. Is Sierra giving the makers credit in this? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Reply 82 of 91, by Freddo

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DOSBox isn't sold with the new Sierra collections. It's bundled in there for free. You just pay for the games.

I remember reading from another thread that noone from Sierra ever contacted the makers of DOSBox, which is rather poorly done of their part.

Reply 83 of 91, by catchaserguns

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If Dosbox is bundled in there for free and you have to buy the games then technically you are buying Dosbox. You are buying both the games and Dosbox. I f Sierra did not contact the makers of Dosbox then they are in violation of copywrite in my opinion. Does Sierra give anycredit on their game compilations?

Reply 84 of 91, by Freddo

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catchaserguns wrote:

If Dosbox is bundled in there for free and you have to buy the games then technically you are buying Dosbox. You are buying both the games and Dosbox. I f Sierra did not contact the makers of Dosbox then they are in violation of copywrite in my opinion. Does Sierra give anycredit on their game compilations?

If a gamedisc include DirectX, game demos and graphic card drivers (or other things that are free downloads and free to re-distribute), are you buying those too?

As for the credit, I have no idea. I don't have these new Sierra collections.

Last edited by Freddo on 2007-03-22, 07:39. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 85 of 91, by jamyskis

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I will tell you this. I am not against abandonware at all. I actually support it. Every abandonware site advertises Dosbox. I also am in support of you not giving support to abandonware. That may sound like double speak but its like this. Dosbox was made for people who want to play their old games on their new computers. Abandonware sites heard about it and told everyone. Abandonware sites tell their patrons to download their games and get Dosbox. Thats why you people are getting are getting threads from people who downloaded their games from abandonware sites. Its not your fault, its the abandonware site's fault. Abandonware Sites have their own forums and I started this thread to let people know that if you got your game from an abandonware site use their forum instead of here. Technology has always been used for good and bad. Look at double cassette decks they are meant for you to make copies. Not entirely legal unless for personal use but they were still made anyway. I remember when vcrs came out and they were almost vanquished until the supreme court here in the US stepped in. We just got to make sure as to not answer any abandonware questions to cover our selves. People will do what they do , we don't have to participate. I know that my statement to support abandonware makes look like a hypocrite but I'm not. If someone lended me a movie and that I wanted to see and they recorded off of HBO technically they could not do that. I still would watch it anyway. The abandonware sites have people who can and do help with their games. I 'm just saying to keep their stuff and our stuff seperate.

This is all well and good, but do people honestly believe that all of the bug reports and entries in the compatibility list are entered using original software? I don't. I understand the support issues with abandonware, as some are too stupid to notice when files are just missing from an archive (and then swear blind that they're using an original). And yes, you're right, the abandonware sites (except Underdogs) have communities that help out too.

I often woder why gaming companies can't set up a small server and off 1 free download for every "new" game you buy off of them, or include popular CDs with a game, I mean 1 extra CD with a game wouldn't kill 'em...
<snip>

They think it would. Still, that's a great idea, as the Wii Virtual Console and XBox 360 Live Arcade has proven. That said, I wouldn't be too hot on the DRM. A system like StarROMs would be great, although it should be a non-profit exercise that directly passes on the revenue to copyright holders, and is funded by adverts.

If Dosbox is bundled in there for free and you have to buy the games then technically you are buying Dosbox. You are buying both the games and Dosbox. I f Sierra did not contact the makers of Dosbox then they are in violation of copywrite in my opinion. Does Sierra give anycredit on their game compilations?

No, but then again neither did Microprose when they released Transport Tycoon Deluxe. And I'm not sure who did the rather sloppy Rayman installer but by the looks of it that was one of Ubisoft's little hobby projects.

As DOSBox can be redistributed freely, it isn't really a violation of copyright per se, but I'm not sure how far what they (and Microprose) have done violates the GPL. The GPL, as opposed to the LGPL, forbids linking to non-GPL compatible libraries and programs, and it's really up for discussion whether Sierra violated the GPL by doing this, as it's pretty much the same effect, only no real code use was involved (just binaries).

Reply 86 of 91, by MiniMax

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Spikey wrote:

Ultimately, while it's not necessarily fair for you (or me), I'm a firm believer in 'the benefit for all outweighes the interests of a few'.

Aha - you are a pink communist 😉

jamyskis wrote:

No, but then again neither did Microprose when they released Transport Tycoon Deluxe. And I'm not sure who did the rather sloppy Rayman installer but by the looks of it that was one of Ubisoft's little hobby projects.

I think you need a fact-checking assistant jamyskis.

  • It was not TTD, it is Railroad Tycoon Deluxe.
  • It was not Microprose, it was 2K Games that did the RRTD / DOSBox release.
  • And unlike Vivendi/Sierra, 2K Games contacted and worked with the DOSBox team to test the combination before release (and some of my changes made it into the release 😀 )
    2K Games readme.txt wrote:

    6) SPECIAL THANKS

    The DOSBox developers and beta team at VOGONS for all of their help.

jamyskis wrote:

As DOSBox can be redistributed freely, it isn't really a violation of copyright per se, but I'm not sure how far what they (and Microprose) have done violates the GPL. The GPL, as opposed to the LGPL, forbids linking to non-GPL compatible libraries and programs, and it's really up for discussion whether Sierra violated the GPL by doing this, as it's pretty much the same effect, only no real code use was involved (just binaries).

Since they did not modify DOSBox in anyway, they don't need to distribute anything. There is no integration, no linking of code, between RRTD and DOSBox, so the LGPL does not apply either (I think! IANAL)

DOSBox 60 seconds guide | How to ask questions
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Reply 87 of 91, by Hazekel

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catchaserguns wrote:

I have a question on sierra games collections and Dosbox. I know that Dosbox is free and has a GNU license. bit can Sierra sell dosbox along with its games? Because when you buy either the King's Quest or Leisure Suit Larry Collection you are also buying a form of Dosbox. I guess they have version 0.63 on their disks. Can they legally do that with a GNU license? According to the license I read that the copywrite belongs to the people who made Dosbox. Is Sierra giving the makers credit in this? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I love that! Technically, of course, they are selling their games and DOSBOX is "free" but then we have been saying for some time that Abandonware is "technically" illegal. Oh, the irony. Let's face it. It is not about the law, but about lawyers. I heard that Microsoft lawyers have intimidated e-bay into never selling VISTA on e-bay, even though it is perfectly legal, assuming the seller obtained his copy legally and is not retaining a copy on his own computer. So ... technically ... 😉

Reply 88 of 91, by Dominus

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Ouch, this is becoming insane now. You are now comparing something really different and thus steering this discussion in a whole different direction which has nothing to do with abandonware and its legallity (not to mention that you don't seem to have read up on GPL).
Sierra did not violate the license (AFAIK) and thus the whole argument is just banana. That they didn't contact or thank the Dosbox team is sad, but something you have to live with when releasing GPL licensed stuff.
The whole bit about Vista has no use in this argument whatsoever, because it doesn't get any point across and also isn't true (before spreading such rumors, check up on it, ebay.com is easy to browse)

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 89 of 91, by wd

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it isn't really a violation of copyright per se

There's no problem in distributing dosbox along with the quest series,
it would just have been nice if they contacted Qbix/Harekiet.
This way we would have had some (sort of) influence, like recommending
the 0.65 release, special configurations etc.

Reply 90 of 91, by FeedingDragon

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I have to admit that I was a bit frustrated with Sierra/Vivendi's release of the Leisure Suit Larry compilation. They just took a basic DOSBox install (Don't remember the version off hand, but it was an older version,) with the default config file, and extremely basic setup configuration for each game. It's like they just slapped everything together without bothering to read any instructions. I found myself installing the games, then copying the game directories to my DOSBox C drive folder, then uninstalling the game and putting the CD away. Then I built config files for each game, and ran the setup on each game to take advantage of some of the DOSBox features that they apparently didn't know existed (MPU-401, etc...)

As for the Abandonware issue, my approach is a little phlegmatic, I guess. I don't use it, and I personally consider it pretty much pirating. Though not near as bad as say downloading Neverwinter Nights 2, Gothic III, or any other recent game. However, while I try to get people I know who have abandonware to at least try to purchase an original, I reserve judgement otherwise. I'm also willing to admit that I have been tempted, at times, when I've spent months looking for a game I really want to play and have been unable to find one for a reasonable price (I'm sorry, but I've seen 1980's games for sale with a "buy it now" price of over $200, and I don't consider that reasonble in most cases.) I've managed to hold to my own standards, so far, by following the steps I outlined in another post.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 91 of 91, by jamyskis

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I think you need a fact-checking assistant jamyskis. […]
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I think you need a fact-checking assistant jamyskis.

* It was not TTD, it is Railroad Tycoon Deluxe.

* It was not Microprose, it was 2K Games that did the RRTD / DOSBox release.

* And unlike Vivendi/Sierra, 2K Games contacted and worked with the DOSBox team to test the combination before release (and some of my changes made it into the release Happy )

My mistake. The first two faux pas were due to the fact that I'd only just woken up 😁 and the last I genuinely didn't know. My bad.