VOGONS


First post, by napierm

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Hello,

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere but I have looked extensively and haven't found this issue.

I have an old dos program I like called TangoPCB Plus which is a nice cad package and is still quite usable for small boards and will do multi-layer boards and is very easy to use. It dates from 1991 and unfortunately is just old enough not to have vesa drivers. I mostly use in on an 486 dos/windows3.11 machine with a Tseng 4000 card but that machine is getting a bit long in the tooth (much like its owner).

So I've loaded dosbox 0.73 and am running under a windows XP SP3 machine. It is a new Dell laptop usually running in a docking station but I don't think that makes any difference.

The program runs fine in vanilla VGA mode and will run in 800x600 mode flawlessly with either the svga_et3000 or svga_et4000 machine setting. Is OK in full screen mode but is a bit too small in a window to do much with. BTW, dosbox is an awesome virtual machine. Great job.

😎

However, the behavior in 1024x768 mode is interesting. The program finds the Tseng hardware and comes up in the right screen resolution. It seems to work just fine except that the lower 1/3 of the screen (or window) is black. It's as if the program is writing to what it thinks is video memory but that portion isn't being displayed. The behavior is identical with with either the svga_et3000 or svga_et4000 machine setting. None of the other machine settings will work at all except at 640x480.

I added:
videoram=2048
and played with that value some but it didn't make any difference.

I don't have a config.sys and autoexec.bat just has the SET BLASTER ....
Tangop has several video .drv files but the only ones that seem to work here are the vga, orc800 (tseng), and orc1024(tseng) with the problem.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Mark Napier

The extroverted engineer stares at the other person's shoes.

Reply 1 of 12, by Miki Maus

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What version of TangoPCB Plus are you using?

You could try checking out this thread VESA display problem with Tango PCB

There they mention version from 1992 and my searches on Google turned up version 2.30 from 1994.

Reply 2 of 12, by MiniMax

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napierm wrote:

I added:
videoram=2048

Where and why?

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Reply 3 of 12, by napierm

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The program is Tango PCB Plus version 2.02. I will try to see what version that 1992 program is and if the VESA .drv files can be had but not holding out much hope. I seem to remember these tango builds were very different from each other.

Looking at that thread he seemed to be having different problems and the version of dosbox also seemed quite different. But I will try to contact him and see. Thanks for the catch.

The videoram statement is right under machine in [dosbox] and is supposed to increase the amount of video ram. It didn't have any affect.

Also in [sdl] all the "output" settings have no effect.

The extroverted engineer stares at the other person's shoes.

Reply 4 of 12, by MiniMax

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napierm wrote:

The videoram statement is right under machine in [dosbox] and is supposed to increase the amount of video ram.

Not in my version of DOSBox 0.73.

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Reply 5 of 12, by HunterZ

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MiniMax wrote:
napierm wrote:

The videoram statement is right under machine in [dosbox] and is supposed to increase the amount of video ram.

Not in my version of DOSBox 0.73.

Yeah that doesn't sound like an official DOSBox feature to me.

Reply 7 of 12, by h-a-l-9000

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Shed some light on the issue: I have a CAD application that suffers from the same problem at 1024x768. The problem also occurs on a real hardware ET4000. However, on a real hardware ET3000 it works. Not so using svga_et3000 in DOSBox, so there is an issue left.

1+1=10

Reply 8 of 12, by napierm

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I read some old threads and tried a few settings. Not too surprising then that with the new version that setting is obsolete.

I never had a et3000 card. I used a few different et4000 ones ending with one that will do 24-color. It was a lot of fun doing ray-tracing and displaying the results. In 1992 that was a big deal and very hard to find a way to get a nice hard copy. A professional photo-printer turned out to be the cheapest way.

Anyway, I think you're right, there is a bug remaining in the Tseng driver.

The extroverted engineer stares at the other person's shoes.

Reply 9 of 12, by napierm

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Surprise, the vesa drivers from 2.3 *do* work with my 2.02. Tango will run in vesa mode under dosbox up to 1280 with no problems.
😎

The extroverted engineer stares at the other person's shoes.

Reply 10 of 12, by vasyl

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Shed some light on the issue: I have a CAD application that suffers from the same problem at 1024x768. The problem also occurs on a real hardware ET4000. However, on a real hardware ET3000 it works. Not so using svga_et3000 in DOSBox, so there is an issue left.

There were quite a few apps quickpatched from ET3000 to ET4000. ET3k generally could not address more than 512K and had only 3 bits for bank switching (actually 3+3 as Tseng could set read and write banks simultaneously). ET4k supported 1024K and used 4 bits but the bits had to be shuffled a little in order to work at all. That required very simple binary modification. Unfortunately, those apps still used only three bits for bank switching so modes with more than 512K still did not work. To make it more confusing, some configuration programs actually listed modes that were not internally supported. All of that led to one of two glitches -- either invisible bottom third of the screen or that bottom drawn on the top.
That said, WHATSVGA has some glitch in current ET3k emulation so it may well be that there is a bug there. I was somewhat out of the loop recently -- Real Life(tm) -- but it's on my plan to take a look into it.

Reply 11 of 12, by h-a-l-9000

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I think the ET3000 uses the full 128k a000-bfff in its SVGA modes. The CAD application does not touch the banking register.

With a Hercules card installed along the ET3000 the Hercules will show gibberish when the program is started 😀

1+1=10

Reply 12 of 12, by vasyl

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There was a trick with 128K banks on ET3000 but I could not find any documentation for it beyond the reference to the high bits of bankswitch register as 128K bank toggle. SVGA documentation is surprisingly sparse. I used Ferraro's book and the text file that came with WHATVGA and neither of these sources even mentioned the fact that ET3k and ET4k use different byte ordering in mode 13h.