VOGONS


First post, by a6n0rma1

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First time poster, long time lurker on the Vogons area. I'd like your help knowledgable folks because I have spent more than 3 days troubleshooting my latest retro build to no avail. Let's start from the beginning.

I found myself cleaning my garage. More than 10 boxes gathered later and more than 100 old PC parts, I thought it would be a good idea to Mix'n'Match my best ones and make a Franken-PC for Win98/DOS gaming. I chose or basically was forced to use -since some parts refused outright to play nicely- a Pentium III 866Mhz CPU, an Iwill BD133u Motherboard, my trusty Voodoo 3 3000 AGP, a Sound Blaster PCI 128 (model CT4810), a Western Digital Caviar DW800 80GB HDD, a Pioneer DVR-111DBK DVD-RW, 9 sticks of varying sizes from 32mb up to 512mb of PC133 ram and a 3COM Fast Etherlink (model3C90B-TXNM). I never once used more than 512mb total ram since this is the max that this motherboard supports. (https://www.ultimateretro.net/motherboard/man … 13182884798.pdf)

The details of the build are as follows:
The HDD is Primary Master. The DVD-RW is Secondary Master. I tried every possible Hardware combination under the sun and right now I have this one. Just the Voodoo graphics card. One stick of ram, more specifically a Transcend 512M PC133 SDRAM (model 166842-0494).

The problems:
From the very beginning, no matter the hardware combination, the motherboard detects the CPU as a Pentium III 433E MHz. I can fix this by entering the IWILL Smart Setting BIOS menu and setting CPU clock as 133 and CPU Clock Ratio as 6.5. Then my CPU is recognized properly as a Pentium III 866 . Other BIOS settings I have right now, although I have tried every possible combination. FDC controller, COM 1, COM 2, Parallel Ports disabled. First boot device is CDROM. Virus Warning disabled. Drive A, Drive B none, floppy 3 mode support disabled, IDE HDD Block Mode enabled. No matter the settings / hardware combination, I can start my PC with cd rom support by using the win 98 CD. I fdisk my hard drive. I then start win98 setup, it all seems to be going well up to the point where it gets stuck on copying files needed for windows setup. The PC always freezes at this step no matter the hardware combination (I tried other HDDs, other DVD devices, having both devices on the same IDE channel as master and slave, other ram sticks, other graphics cards, other bios settings). I then thought to myself, wait a minute maybe fdisk is doing something wrong with the HDD since it is not period correct and is really large. I'll use my trusty gparted live cd to properly format the HDD and then try installing windows 98. Here is the other problem, as soon as the boot menu of gparted is loaded (the one where you have 30 seconds to make a selection) the pc freezes and the monitor goes blank. Always. This also happens with my plop boot manager live CD where I tried using a USB made with rufus to install Win98 since the motherboard doesn't support booting from USB. As soon as plop boot manager's menu is loaded the pc freezes and the monitor goes blank.

As you can see I already troubleshooted a lot. I am sure there is a small detail I am missing, or maybe even a combination of things. Any suggestions are welcome.

Reply 1 of 8, by Sphere478

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If you copy the cd contents to the hard drive on another computer you can browse to setup on the hard drive and start setup without a cd

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 2 of 8, by Namrok

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For the CPU recognition, have you tried a BIOS update? I got a used PIII board not long ago that needed one to properly recognize a 1000 mhz CPU. I forget what it thought it was originally, but it was abysmally low. It's easy to forget that things were moving so fast back then, a lot of those boards were getting a lot of BIOS updates to help them ID the new chips that were rolling out every few months.

As for the rest, I'd suggest running Memtest. Memory always seems like the first suspect in weird unexplained crashes and hard locks like that. Maybe go into the BIOS and make sure it doesn't have some sort of aggressive timings set.

Also, have you cleared the CMOS using the jumper yet? This sometimes helps.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 3 of 8, by a6n0rma1

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-07, 12:10:

If you copy the cd contents to the hard drive on another computer you can browse to setup on the hard drive and start setup without a cd

Thank you very much for chiming in. I just tried that. I fdisked my hdd, restarted, format c: /s, then had win98 folder from my installation cd copied to the HDD using my WINXP machine. Then as soon as I run setup the system froze again! Back to the drawing board.

Reply 4 of 8, by a6n0rma1

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Namrok wrote on 2021-12-07, 12:44:

For the CPU recognition, have you tried a BIOS update? I got a used PIII board not long ago that needed one to properly recognize a 1000 mhz CPU. I forget what it thought it was originally, but it was abysmally low. It's easy to forget that things were moving so fast back then, a lot of those boards were getting a lot of BIOS updates to help them ID the new chips that were rolling out every few months.

As for the rest, I'd suggest running Memtest. Memory always seems like the first suspect in weird unexplained crashes and hard locks like that. Maybe go into the BIOS and make sure it doesn't have some sort of aggressive timings set.

Also, have you cleared the CMOS using the jumper yet? This sometimes helps.

Thank you for the ideas. The motherboard already has the latest BIOS version flashed. CMOS settings are reset. Unfortunately I don't have blank cds and the motherboard doesn't boot from usb so I can't run memtest. All ram timings are set to default and I even tried setting them looser but to no avail. Maybe there's a hardware problem lurking or just plain ol' incompatibility amongst the pc parts.

Reply 5 of 8, by Doornkaat

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You should buy some empty CDs. You need them in this hobby. I agree with Sphere: memtest is the first step here.
Some motherboards start in a failsafe mode after crashing. In this case this failsafe probably includes using the lowest FSB (66MHz). 6.5x multi is hardwired in the CPU so 433MHz would be right.

Reply 6 of 8, by Repo Man11

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You can also run Memtest from a floppy, though you have to have a working machine with a floppy drive to write the image to the disk. http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 8 of 8, by Namrok

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That's too bad, but understandable. Takes a special inclination to tinker with this old hardware. If a game runs in DOSBOX, that's almost always the easier way to go. It's when you get into early Win3.1/9X games that real hardware becomes easier than the smattering of fan patches, compatibility layers, virtual machines or emulators you may need to employ on a game by game basis. Although occasionally XP era games need a lot of special attention too.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS