VOGONS


First post, by sirnephilim

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So I'm in the middle of building a Xi 8088 (complete with BlasterBoard, XT-CF Lite, Gotek, and 8-bit ISA VGA card - the project is to build a fully working XT compatible system completely from parts and soldered by hand) and realized that old industrial SBCs might be an amazing way to get a huge amount of retro coverage into a single PC case.

Like, on a single backplane you can get 8 and 16-bit ISA, PCI and AGP. That would seem to indicate that with the right SBC cards and expansion cards you could go all the way from the 8088 through to the Pentium 4 era on the same backplane. (Maybe not, or maybe you'd at least need the -5V mod for older AT based systems if the boards required it?) That strikes me as a very interesting possibility - keep a pile of cards handy and you could quickly and easily swap out your hardware to match any era you wish between the original IBM PC DOS through to Windows XP. (I'm imagining a 3D printed storage system to hold the cards that aren't being used, like dummy ISA or AGP slots that hang on the wall.)

Pricing things out on the big auction site at it looks like prices for SBC CPU cards are comparable to normal motherboards, or even cheaper in the case of a Pentium Pro board I ended up buying - I had a Pentium Pro computer for a long time and it seemed to work with almost all DOS and Windows 95/98 games. (Oddly, 386 boards are the most expensive out of any I searched for.) So if it can work it would be amazing.

The only roadblock I can really see is that some industrial SBCs with onboard video might not be able to use an external video card.

I'm sure this has been tried before, but I've never heard of it. Any thoughts or recommendations?

Reply 1 of 4, by cyclone3d

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The SBCs can handle external video just like regular motherboards.

PIAGP setups are really nice.

I don't think that PIAGP backplane would necessarily work properly with a PCI/ISA or plane ISA SBC though I have never actually tried it.

I do have a PCI/ISA socket 3 (486) SBC and it is finicky about backplanes because of how PCI addressing is done and it will only work properly with up to 4 PCI slots and the backplane has to have them configured a certain way.

I personally would not use a single backplane setup for more than than one SBC unless maybe it is ISA only.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 2 of 4, by sirnephilim

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cyclone3d wrote on 2022-04-16, 05:03:
The SBCs can handle external video just like regular motherboards. […]
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The SBCs can handle external video just like regular motherboards.

PIAGP setups are really nice.

I don't think that PIAGP backplane would necessarily work properly with a PCI/ISA or plane ISA SBC though I have never actually tried it.

I do have a PCI/ISA socket 3 (486) SBC and it is finicky about backplanes because of how PCI addressing is done and it will only work properly with up to 4 PCI slots and the backplane has to have them configured a certain way.

I personally would not use a single backplane setup for more than than one SBC unless maybe it is ISA only.

Well I'm working on the Xi 8088 and other boards by Sergey Kiselev, which includes a Micro ATX 16-bit ISA backplane, complete with a built-in diagnostic system so I'm covered in that regard. (Essentially that's its own project, mostly just for the laughs and to say I've done it, though early DOS games are always fun.) Most of the AGP backplanes I've seen have a separate PCI/ISA slot, so I'd assume at least some cards would work there, otherwise why have it?

I was worried about the video since IIRC you'd have to bypass the built-in video somehow, and in purpose-built SBCs I figured they might not even include that option. Also, do you need some kind of bridge to connect the ISA in an AGP backplane, or does the AGP or PCI bus have an interconnect?

Reply 3 of 4, by sirnephilim

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Also I'd think that the main barrier to getting the ISA working on a newer backplane would be that ATX power supplies do not feature a -5V rail, which can be modded in with a special adapter to convert the -12V rail to a -5V using a regulator that slots in an open ISA slot, said design also by Sergey Kiselev. (Seriously, this whole project would be tanked without those designs.) Some ISA cards need this, some don't. AFAIK all of the Xi 8088 and related boards don't use it, but real cards from the time often did and thus will not work.

Reply 4 of 4, by cyclone3d

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In the PIAGP setups, you have to have the PCI/ISA bridge board that plugs on the backplane.

As for -5v, very very few cards require that.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK