Half-Saint wrote on 2023-03-22, 20:11:

I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the par […]
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I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the parts already. I'm running DOS and Win98Se on the SS7 system.

After so many years of meddling with PCs my memory is becoming a bit fuzzy. On top of that, back in the day I was always about two years behind. When most people were already using Windows XP, I was still sticking with Win2k. So now I have a problem choosing the best OS for a socket 370 system based on a Tualatin Celeron 1.3 GHz.

Would a combination of Windows 98 SE and Windows XP solve all the problems and let me run all the old and newer software along with some DOS stuff? For really old DOS stuff I have a turbo XT as well as a 486DX2/66.

Cheers

Probably Windows XP will give you the largest overall game compatibility if you're willing to use Win9x-compatibility mode for some games and DOSBox for any DOS-related fare. Nothing I can think of that would really be playable on that machine would require Vista/7/later. Boring answer, I know.

leonardo wrote on 2023-03-22, 21:09:

Probably Windows XP will give you the largest overall game compatibility if you're willing to use Win9x-compatibility mode for some games and DOSBox for any DOS-related fare. Nothing I can think of that would really be playable on that machine would require Vista/7/later. Boring answer, I know.

That is a great answer IMHO !

XP and games requiring one might be too heavy for P3

leonardo wrote on 2023-03-22, 21:09:

Half-Saint wrote on 2023-03-22, 20:11:

I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the par […]
Show full quote

I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the parts already. I'm running DOS and Win98Se on the SS7 system.

After so many years of meddling with PCs my memory is becoming a bit fuzzy. On top of that, back in the day I was always about two years behind. When most people were already using Windows XP, I was still sticking with Win2k. So now I have a problem choosing the best OS for a socket 370 system based on a Tualatin Celeron 1.3 GHz.

Would a combination of Windows 98 SE and Windows XP solve all the problems and let me run all the old and newer software along with some DOS stuff? For really old DOS stuff I have a turbo XT as well as a 486DX2/66.

Cheers

Probably Windows XP will give you the largest overall game compatibility if you're willing to use Win9x-compatibility mode for some games and DOSBox for any DOS-related fare. Nothing I can think of that would really be playable on that machine would require Vista/7/later. Boring answer, I know.

I think on that CPU you'll get up to about middling 486 performance with DOSbox. Just trying to give an idea. Anyway, anything up from there has less tendency to be speed tweaky, there's still a handful.

Is the P3 a direct replacement for the K6 or do you have some games that require XP?
Also do you have any dos games that need a faster PC then your 486?

First thing I'd do a test install of XP and check if any of your games have compatibility issues with XP.
If any game fails then I'd keep it simple and just install Win98 unless you do need XP for some games in which case dual boot.
If all your games do work then just install XP unless you need Win98's dos mode for the below.

I'm assuming this motherboard lacks ISA slots so dos performance is already compromised sound card wise. You could either play dos games within Windows 98 or use it to boot to pure dos at full system speed as 9x is a lot less resource heavy then XP plus you don't have the additional overhead of DOSBox emulation.

If you end up only needing to install XP then dosbox may cover any games the 486 struggles with.

Depending on space you could also keep the K6 around for dos games.

My personal opinion though is P3 make for a fast Win98 build but weak XP build, Even P4's struggle with later XP games.

Once you decide on an OS then we know if we have to worry about compatibility.

Half-Saint wrote on 2023-03-22, 20:11:

I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the par […]
Show full quote

I'm considering early retirement for my Super Socket 7 K6-2+ system and replacing it with a Pentium III since I have all the parts already. I'm running DOS and Win98Se on the SS7 system.

After so many years of meddling with PCs my memory is becoming a bit fuzzy. On top of that, back in the day I was always about two years behind. When most people were already using Windows XP, I was still sticking with Win2k. So now I have a problem choosing the best OS for a socket 370 system based on a Tualatin Celeron 1.3 GHz.

Would a combination of Windows 98 SE and Windows XP solve all the problems and let me run all the old and newer software along with some DOS stuff? For really old DOS stuff I have a turbo XT as well as a 486DX2/66.

Cheers

Windows XP has some benefits such as:
- it's a superior OS with more creature comforts
- it's more stable and less prone to breaking
- more support for hardware out of the box

But it also has some big negatives:
- no proper DOS support
- early DirectX games tend to not work on XP.
- requires a beefier system due to overheads

Personally, stick with Windows 98 if you have to chose one if you have a Pentium III.

For the rest: I always recommend a Voodoo 3 3000 AGP for video card on a system aimed at games from 1995-2000. It covers almost all Glide games (except some DOS), it has excellent 2D support (also in DOS) and it's very compatible.

You could instead go for a Riva TNT 2 or something a little more recent but you'll lose Voodoo support unless you add a Voodoo 2 PCI card and when you do that, you might as well buy a Voodoo 3 for a similar price unless you have one lying around.

chinny22 wrote on 2023-03-23, 09:56:

Is the P3 a direct replacement for the K6 or do you have some games that require XP? Also do you have any dos games that need a […]
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Is the P3 a direct replacement for the K6 or do you have some games that require XP?
Also do you have any dos games that need a faster PC then your 486?

First thing I'd do a test install of XP and check if any of your games have compatibility issues with XP.
If any game fails then I'd keep it simple and just install Win98 unless you do need XP for some games in which case dual boot.
If all your games do work then just install XP unless you need Win98's dos mode for the below.

I'm assuming this motherboard lacks ISA slots so dos performance is already compromised sound card wise. You could either play dos games within Windows 98 or use it to boot to pure dos at full system speed as 9x is a lot less resource heavy then XP plus you don't have the additional overhead of DOSBox emulation.

You are correct, the motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-6OXT and it has no ISA slots at all. P3 is supposed to be a direct replacement, yes. I'm currently running 98SE on the AMD PC.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-03-23, 02:25:

XP and games requiring one might be too heavy for P3

Recommended system requirements for XP are surprisingly low. I reckon, since XP and Tualatin have the same release date of 2001, a fast Pentium 3 should be able to handle most XP stuff at least up to 2006 as someone already said. This is still just speculation on my part tho as I have never tried gaming in XP on anything other than Athlon XP T-Bred.

Half-Saint wrote on 2023-03-23, 10:24:

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-03-23, 02:25:

XP and games requiring one might be too heavy for P3

Recommended system requirements for XP are surprisingly low. I reckon, since XP and Tualatin have the same release date of 2001, a fast Pentium 3 should be able to handle most XP stuff at least up to 2006 as someone already said. This is still just speculation on my part tho as I have never tried gaming in XP on anything other than Athlon XP T-Bred.

The problem is the service packs, those massively bump up the system requirements. You may say "I don't need those service packs for the games" and you'd be right but if you want to install software & drivers you may run into issues because the last available versions for Windows XP often depend on SP3. My XP installation on my Pentium III is SP2 and I had to use some older drivers due to this problem.

I also compared 3D Mark 99 & 2001 SE between XP & 98 and there's a 5% performance drop between XP and Windows 98. That's not too bad really.

red_avatar wrote on 2023-03-23, 10:37:

The problem is the service packs, those massively bump up the system requirements. You may say "I don't need those service packs for the games" and you'd be right but if you want to install software & drivers you may run into issues because the last available versions for Windows XP often depend on SP3. My XP installation on my Pentium III is SP2 and I had to use some older drivers due to this problem.

I also compared 3D Mark 99 & 2001 SE between XP & 98 and there's a 5% performance drop between XP and Windows 98. That's not too bad really.

Ah yes, the service packs. Well, I think the best way to see what happens is to actually install XP as chinny22 suggested.

For XP in such old systems I'd stick with XP SP1. I remember being stuck in this version back in the day not upgrading my Willamette 1.7 P4 to SP2 until it became strictly necessary.

Also recently installed XP SP1 in a Pentium 3 1Ghz I have in hand and in conjunction with an SD card as a drive and enough ram (256+MB), it flies!

I'm Running XP on 2 of my Pentium 3 builds I think I have 98 on a third P3. I have a radeon 9250 in both XP builds and they run amazingly. Was considering trying a voodoo 3 in one of them, but i dont think they would benefit at this point.

I would go with 98SE there are a few PCI sound cards that can provide usable support in DOS, and most are cheap as well.
P3 really is only fast enough for early XP anyway. We have to remember that XP had a LONG life, and it's requirements changed and evolved a lot between 2001-2014.
The disparity is enough that I see the XP hardware as two separate eras, early and late. The solution that I take is to just build a Sandy/Ivy bridge system and have one to rule them all.
In short I just wouldn't bother with XP on a P3. I say 98SE, decent PCI sound card with DOS support and probably use the Geforce 3.

Or you could go the VIA c3 route and try to have a one size fits all system.
(that's what I did.)

why argue about 98se vs xp when you can install them both and dual boot?

nt4&98se / 2k&me (depending if slot or socket), some cards from 99 to 2001 from the v3/tnt2/neon250/fury/savage4/g400 to the gf3/r8500,kyro2, live/live51/audigy, pick your poison or just go for the max (r9800 or geforce7), the end.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-03-23, 13:45:

I would go with 98SE there are a few PCI sound cards that can provide usable support in DOS, and most are cheap as well. P3 rea […]
Show full quote

I would go with 98SE there are a few PCI sound cards that can provide usable support in DOS, and most are cheap as well.
P3 really is only fast enough for early XP anyway. We have to remember that XP had a LONG life, and it's requirements changed and evolved a lot between 2001-2014.
The disparity is enough that I see the XP hardware as two separate eras, early and late. The solution that I take is to just build a Sandy/Ivy bridge system and have one to rule them all.
In short I just wouldn't bother with XP on a P3. I say 98SE, decent PCI sound card with DOS support and probably use the Geforce 3.

Or you could go the VIA c3 route and try to have a one size fits all system.
(that's what I did.)

Sandy bridge for XP?

I actually have a mini-ITX Via C3 system already but overall it is quite weak.

On P3 - Win2k max, for some games that my run nicer on NT, like Quake engine games. Everything else - Win9x.

Half-Saint wrote on 2023-03-24, 12:26:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-03-23, 13:45:

I would go with 98SE there are a few PCI sound cards that can provide usable support in DOS, and most are cheap as well. P3 rea […]
Show full quote

I would go with 98SE there are a few PCI sound cards that can provide usable support in DOS, and most are cheap as well.
P3 really is only fast enough for early XP anyway. We have to remember that XP had a LONG life, and it's requirements changed and evolved a lot between 2001-2014.
The disparity is enough that I see the XP hardware as two separate eras, early and late. The solution that I take is to just build a Sandy/Ivy bridge system and have one to rule them all.
In short I just wouldn't bother with XP on a P3. I say 98SE, decent PCI sound card with DOS support and probably use the Geforce 3.

Or you could go the VIA c3 route and try to have a one size fits all system.
(that's what I did.)

Sandy bridge for XP?

I actually have a mini-ITX Via C3 system already but overall it is quite weak.

Sandy bridge is late for sure, but we have to remember XP was very much still alive by 2014 and fully supported (some people still use it). It also has very late driver support. Nividia has drivers through Maxwell series cards and I think AMD had support up the 200 series cards as well. No real reason to limit yourself to 2005 hardware.

As far as the VIA C3 goes, the whole point is that it's a weaker architecture, and has a very flexible on the fly multiplier.
You can hit a very wide range of performance speeds from a 386 all the way up to about a 800mhz P3/Athlon with the Nehemiah chip.
If a one size fits all is your agenda it's the best option.
If performance is your main concern shoot for Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge or go something similar from AMD.
My 2cents

Maxwell support on XP is somewhat shaky and AMD essentially ended support on Radeon HD 7970. Everything in 200 series supported is just a rehash of 7xxx series. But AMD drivers for GCN architecture on XP were left in half-baked state.