VOGONS


First post, by Private_Ops

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I've got an old DFI G5G330-P. Takes Pentium M cpus (780 on order).

Its got 5 VRM caps, of which, two are bulging. Board still boots thankfully.

It's got two 1500uf 16v and three 2200uf 6.3v. All "KZG". 10mm width, 5mm lead spacing.

Trying to cross reference caps and figure out what works makes my head hurt, way to much info. Would anyone recommend specific replacements?

Reply 1 of 11, by bogdanpaulb

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Use low esr ones from this brands accordingly with the availability in your area:
- Panasonic
- Rubycon
- Nichicon
- Elna
- Kemet (for polymer caps)
- Chemicon (better then no names) (the KZG's are from them, low esr series for computer motherboards)
- Vishay (cheaper new caps)

Reply 3 of 11, by TheMobRules

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

KZG/KZJ are known problematic series from Chemi-con, which are very sensitive to heat and almost always die early. So I strongly suggest replacing all KZGs on the board, even if they do look fine.

If you take a look at the datasheet, you will notice that these are classed as "ultra low impedance" capacitors, with the 2200uF/6.3V having 0.013ohm impedance and 2.550A ripple current. So you'll need a replacement with equal or less impedance and equal or greater ripple current.

The Panasonic FR has 0.020ohm impedance, so you'll need something better. The problem is that ultra low series like the KZG are not produced anymore, so my suggestion would be to go with polymers in this case. You probably won't be able to match the capacitance, but it's not a major problem. Just get polymers with as much capacitance as you can find that fit in place of the KZGs.

EDIT: these KEMET polymers seem like a good option

Reply 4 of 11, by mockingbird

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
TheMobRules wrote on 2023-05-04, 01:23:

EDIT: these KEMET polymers seem like a good option

Yes, you will need polymers... Those Panasonic caps will not do... Also, I don't recommend Kemet polymers. Get a quality Japanese brand.

mslrlv.png
(Decommissioned:)
7ivtic.png

Reply 5 of 11, by bogdanpaulb

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

For the 12v input of the vrm (1500/16v) i would go with this ones: https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … oFb8cy1rA%3D%3D or this: https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … 87SuS90Rg%3D%3D and pesonaly prefer the 25v rated ones(even if they are rated for less hours), the ones that you selected are rated only for 6.3v. For the output of the vrm (2200uf 6.3v) there is no need to use 10v rated ones, 6.3v is more than enough (vcore will be lower then 2v and you can find motherboards with even 2.5v rated ones on the vrm output) : https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … ZErdgJH2g%3D%3D or https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … ZRuHLOk8g%3D%3D. Regarding impedance and ripple current, i've used 0.020ohm impedance ones until now to replace KZG's on the output of vrm's without any issue (what's the point of having great specs on 'paper' for caps, if they can't 'cut it in real life', e.g. high failure rate of KZG's) thou i completely agree with going for polymers: for input https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … ToeZaFHEg%3D%3D and for output https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … ikzKI0gGw%3D%3D. Also, very hard, but you can still find new KZG's, but i don't recommend them unless they are cheap.

Reply 6 of 11, by Private_Ops

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
bogdanpaulb wrote on 2023-05-04, 02:12:

For the 12v input of the vrm (1500/16v) i would go with this ones: https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … oFb8cy1rA%3D%3D or this: https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … 87SuS90Rg%3D%3D and pesonaly prefer the 25v rated ones(even if they are rated for less hours), the ones that you selected are rated only for 6.3v. For the output of the vrm (2200uf 6.3v) there is no need to use 10v rated ones, 6.3v is more than enough (vcore will be lower then 2v and you can find motherboards with even 2.5v rated ones on the vrm output) : https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … ZErdgJH2g%3D%3D or https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic … ZRuHLOk8g%3D%3D. Regarding impedance and ripple current, i've used 0.020ohm impedance ones until now to replace KZG's on the output of vrm's without any issue (what's the point of having great specs on 'paper' for caps, if they can't 'cut it in real life', e.g. high failure rate of KZG's) thou i completely agree with going for polymers: for input https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … ToeZaFHEg%3D%3D and for output https://ro.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … ikzKI0gGw%3D%3D. Also, very hard, but you can still find new KZG's, but i don't recommend them unless they are cheap.

I like the idea of polymers but, it seems you can often go with a lower capacitance rating and I couldn't find a reasonable explanation as to why and how. So my brain just defaulted to replace with "like" components.

If no one has an objections I'll order the polymers linked above.

Reply 7 of 11, by mockingbird

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Private_Ops wrote on 2023-05-04, 06:31:

I like the idea of polymers but, it seems you can often go with a lower capacitance rating and I couldn't find a reasonable explanation as to why and how. So my brain just defaulted to replace with "like" components.

If no one has an objections I'll order the polymers linked above.

Don't forget the VRM high caps. KZG doesn't always bulge when they go out of spec, so you'll need replacements for the 16V 1500uF caps as well.

https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … jvmT%2FBA%3D%3D

mslrlv.png
(Decommissioned:)
7ivtic.png

Reply 8 of 11, by Private_Ops

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
mockingbird wrote on 2023-05-04, 12:55:
Private_Ops wrote on 2023-05-04, 06:31:

I like the idea of polymers but, it seems you can often go with a lower capacitance rating and I couldn't find a reasonable explanation as to why and how. So my brain just defaulted to replace with "like" components.

If no one has an objections I'll order the polymers linked above.

Don't forget the VRM high caps. KZG doesn't always bulge when they go out of spec, so you'll need replacements for the 16V 1500uF caps as well.

https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … jvmT%2FBA%3D%3D

There's also ~23 1000uf 6.3v KZG caps as well. A few are around what appears to be VRMs for various things.

Reply 9 of 11, by mockingbird

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Private_Ops wrote on 2023-05-04, 20:53:

There's also ~23 1000uf 6.3v KZG caps as well. A few are around what appears to be VRMs for various things.

For those, what's most important, look for something that's 8x11.5mm... That means if you have to go down to 820uF, so be it. Ideally, you want something ultra low ESR for the memory and chipset vrm, but people have been known to get away with low ESR (and not ultra-low ESR) caps. But I don't know how good you are at soldering, so you do really want to replace 20+ capacitors? Clearing the holes for the replacements isn't easy. Be careful not to use too much pressure or you'll rip out the pad or the via.

Anyhow, either of these two should work:
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … vAH0N7njw%3D%3D
https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/KEMET/A75 … 2Bw1IWEAQ%3D%3D

mslrlv.png
(Decommissioned:)
7ivtic.png

Reply 10 of 11, by helios98

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I know this post is a little over a month old. But would happen if someone did use just low ESR caps instead of the low ultra ESR caps for replacement?

Reply 11 of 11, by TheMobRules

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
helios98 wrote on 2023-06-18, 18:29:

I know this post is a little over a month old. But would happen if someone did use just low ESR caps instead of the low ultra ESR caps for replacement?

The design of the board uses ultra low ESR caps for a reason. Those caps are under lots of stress as they need to withstand large amounts of ripple current, using parts rated for considerably less than what was originally intended may appear to work for a while or when the CPU is lightly loaded, but at some point you will have either unstable behavior (especially in high load conditions) or early failure of the capacitors.