Thank you for your detailed reply.

* The HP T5710 seems to be a good choice but it only has an 800mhz CPU is there any similar thin client with more power ?

* The Furto S400 also seems like a good choice but it needs a sound card ? can't be used as it is ?

Any other thin client you would recommend ?

mattw wrote on 2023-05-07, 18:53:

that for sure is much broader discussion, because at least I am not sure SBEMU is the best choice compared to the other 2 option […]
Show full quote

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 17:21:

possibly native DOS support with SBEMU.

that for sure is much broader discussion, because at least I am not sure SBEMU is the best choice compared to the other 2 options I see:

* HP T5710 thin client with VIASBCFG tool to enable its sound in DOS:

VIASBCFG - VIA SBPro configuration tool for VIA VT8231 & VT82C686/A/B chipsets (v0.12d)

* the already mentioned Furto S400 with DDMA Sound card like Yamaha 74x

I think Yamaha 74x cannot be beaten with any of the other 2 options (SBEMU or VIASBCFG ), which more or less involve some emulation, but I think Yamaha 74x DOS tools do not include support for DDMA with Futro S400 chipset and I needed to write my own small tool for that - it was years ago I don't remember anymore, but in any way Futro S400 chipset has excellent DDMA support, years ago I tested it with all DDMA sound cards I have.

In fact I guess, HP T5710 is very good to have, because VIASBCFG support and also SBEMU should work (i.e. it has compatible with SBEMU AC97 codec, as far as I can tell).

I have found Fujitsu FUTRO S550, Fujitsu FUTRO S700 and Fujitsu FUTRO S900 for about 20 euros. Do you think they meet DOS and Win98 requirements ?

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 19:24:

* The HP T5710 seems to be a good choice but it only has an 800mhz CPU is there any similar thin client with more power ?

800Mhz is plenty for DOS, I think probably it will be even necessary to slow it down with tools like "setmul":
[*]SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6+7+8 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

if that works with T5710, because some DOS games cannot run on such high-speed.

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 19:24:

* The Furto S400 also seems like a good choice but it needs a sound card ? can't be used as it is ?

yes, it needs PCI sound card that can run in DOS, but it also has DDMA support in its chipset, which increases the options for working sound card in DOS:

DDMA and PCPCI for Low IQ Individuals (Me included)

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 19:56:

I have found Fujitsu FUTRO S550, Fujitsu FUTRO S700 and Fujitsu FUTRO S900 for about 20 euros. Do you think they meet DOS and Win98 requirements ?

none of those is good for DOS or Win98:

FUTRO S550 - I haven't used one, but now after I looked the specs of it, IMH0 I don't see any use of it.

FUTRO S700 is a crap, it's FUTRO S900 with PCI slot desoldered, etc. basically S700 is cost-reduced budget version of S900.

FUTRO S900 - most common revision is crap, those with single-core AMD G-T52R, unbelievable how slow they are.

However, if you find FUTRO S900 with AMD G-T40N - that is nice for all kinds of audio applications using WinXP - as I mentioned MIDI Soft synths or just audio player, because its fan-less and allows to install high-end PCI audio card. Best is FUTRO S900 with AMD G-T56N, but those are very rare and expensive.

In any way, FUTRO S900 (with AMD G-T40N or AMD G-T56N) you can use as complementary to your DOS machine as MIDI "server", i.e. run there MT-32 emulation and Yamaha/Roland Soft synthesizers.

The one I found has the following specs:

AMD G-T44R 1.2 ghz + 2gb ram + 2gb msata SSD

So that + a sound card would work in DOS right ?

Also on the specs the sound card is listed as Realtek ALC262 can I get away with SBEMU or something similar ?

http://www.dunaelektronika.com/cms/upload/ima … t_pdf/247_1.pdf

mattw wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:17:

none of those is good for DOS or Win98: […]
Show full quote

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 19:56:

I have found Fujitsu FUTRO S550, Fujitsu FUTRO S700 and Fujitsu FUTRO S900 for about 20 euros. Do you think they meet DOS and Win98 requirements ?

none of those is good for DOS or Win98:

FUTRO S550 - I haven't used one, but now after I looked the specs of it, IMH0 I don't see any use of it.

FUTRO S700 is a crap, it's FUTRO S900 with PCI slot desoldered, etc. basically S700 is cost-reduced budget version of S900.

FUTRO S900 - most common revision is crap, those with single-core AMD G-T52R, unbelievable how slow they are.

However, if you find FUTRO S900 with AMD G-T40N - that is nice for all kinds of audio applications using WinXP - as I mentioned MIDI Soft synths or just audio player, because its fan-less and allows to install high-end PCI audio card. Best is FUTRO S900 with AMD G-T56N, but those are very rare and expensive.

In any way, FUTRO S900 (with AMD G-T40N or AMD G-T56N) you can use as complementary to your DOS machine as MIDI "server", i.e. run there MT-32, Yamaha, Roland, Soft synthesizers.

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:23:

The one I found has the following specs:
AMD G-T44R 1.2 ghz + 2gb ram + 2gb msata SSD

AMD G-T44R is total crap as performance even worse that AMD G-T52R. I see no any application for such machine, I mean AMD G-T44R is too slow to even run WinXP smoothly. You cannot install Win9x on it - no drivers. So, on that you're limited to DOS and I have no idea how good or bad "Radeon HD 6250" will perform with DOS games. Realtek ALC262 is HDA codec - maybe SBEMU will work I cannot tell. In any way, that is totally uncharted territory - what I can tell you for 100% sure that cannot be used neither for WinXP, nor for Win9x, DOS maybe possible, but I doubt anyone can tell you...

OK thanks for the valuable information I will keep on searching

mattw wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:30:

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:23:

The one I found has the following specs:
AMD G-T44R 1.2 ghz + 2gb ram + 2gb msata SSD

AMD G-T44R is total crap as performance even worse that AMD G-T52R. I see no any application for such machine, I mean AMD G-T44R is too slow to even run WinXP smoothly. You cannot install Win9x on it - no drivers. So, on that you're limited to DOS and I have no idea how good or bad "Radeon HD 6250" will perform with DOS games. Realtek ALC262 is HDA codec - maybe SBEMU will work I cannot tell. In any way, that is totally uncharted territory - what I can tell you for 100% sure that cannot be used neither for WinXP, nor for Win9x, DOS maybe possible, but I doubt anyone can tell you...

I think I forgot to mention that I have found the Fujitsu Futro S550

AMD Sempron 200U+ 1.0 GHz + 1GB RAM (DDR2 SO-DIMM) and no storage

https://sp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/p … -futro-s550.pdf

How about this one ?

Thanks for the help

mattw wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:30:

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:23:

The one I found has the following specs:
AMD G-T44R 1.2 ghz + 2gb ram + 2gb msata SSD

AMD G-T44R is total crap as performance even worse that AMD G-T52R. I see no any application for such machine, I mean AMD G-T44R is too slow to even run WinXP smoothly. You cannot install Win9x on it - no drivers. So, on that you're limited to DOS and I have no idea how good or bad "Radeon HD 6250" will perform with DOS games. Realtek ALC262 is HDA codec - maybe SBEMU will work I cannot tell. In any way, that is totally uncharted territory - what I can tell you for 100% sure that cannot be used neither for WinXP, nor for Win9x, DOS maybe possible, but I doubt anyone can tell you...

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-07, 20:46:

I think I forgot to mention that I have found the Fujitsu Futro S550

you didn't forget, look one of my previous posts - I already replied on that particular model. So, I am not DOS gaming expert, I use thin-clients mainly for MIDI emulators, which you also need for proper DOS gaming and if you don't know what that is I found video on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRyPjvbDkvg

I must say, I don't like the thin-client used in the video (i.e. build-in sound card) and choice of Win7/Win10 for the OS, because as I mentioned you can do it with WinXP and do it much better, because there you have the option of really high-end retro PCI sound card like Onkyo SE-90PCI or Audiotrak HD2.

so, maybe, someone will have much better suggestions for your case and application.

[EDIT] and totally off-topic, but just for completeness - I've just watched in full the video I mentioned above and it's said there that "cheap Chinese USB-to-MIDI" adapters do not work with MT-32 (it uses special SysEX MIDI commands and thus not all USB-to-MIDI adapters understand that), that is not correct some work some don't and that applies for very expensive brand-name adapters - for example I have "Made in the USA" MOTU one that doesn't work (it was fixed in later revision though). So, that is not that simple thing to state - in fact sometimes it could be affecting MIDI-IN or MIDI-OUT of the USB interface only, sometimes both IN and OUT are affected. So, best is to have working one and test separately IN and OUT using this tool I found many years ago:

https://radkon.eu/projects/midi_tester/index.php?lang=en

anyway, it's a long topic, but just wanted to mention as it's something not correct in the above video...

I use and recomand HP T5720 for retro win98 gaming. I played Diablo 2 Lod, Drakan, Quake 2, Unreal and other games at decent resolution 800x600.
It has some problems with sound in dos. With WDM drivers it installs set blaster enviroment, but some games have problems, duke3d for exemple, sound is not working.
I tested SBEMU and is not working with that chipset.
I had another thinclient just for dos games: Fujjitsu Futro B210 with 64mb ram. It worked great (with sound through VIASBCFG by Jazefox) for late dos titles like duke3d, strife, hexen and other, but really old games like prehistorik 2 just didnt work. And if I used setmul to slow it down, audio was getting choppy becouse of viafmtsr that used cpu.
For dos gaming I use now a 486 dx2 66mhz with yamaha ISA sound card.

@b0by007 : Excellent information! if HP T5720 is not supported by SBEMU that means no any SIS chipset will work with SBEMU (at least until support is added), because all SiS chipset use the same Sis7018 AC97 Audio controller. Also, good information about Futro B210 - I did not know it's supported both by VIASBCFG and by setmul, but as you mentioned it's still not a perfect combination. I agree with you - something like "486 dx2 66mhz with yamaha ISA sound card" hardly can be beaten.

Thanks for the information 😀

b0by007 wrote on 2023-05-07, 21:29:

I use and recomand HP T5720 for retro win98 gaming. I played Diablo 2 Lod, Drakan, Quake 2, Unreal and other games at decent res […]
Show full quote

I use and recomand HP T5720 for retro win98 gaming. I played Diablo 2 Lod, Drakan, Quake 2, Unreal and other games at decent resolution 800x600.
It has some problems with sound in dos. With WDM drivers it installs set blaster enviroment, but some games have problems, duke3d for exemple, sound is not working.
I tested SBEMU and is not working with that chipset.
I had another thinclient just for dos games: Fujjitsu Futro B210 with 64mb ram. It worked great (with sound through VIASBCFG by Jazefox) for late dos titles like duke3d, strife, hexen and other, but really old games like prehistorik 2 just didnt work. And if I used setmul to slow it down, audio was getting choppy becouse of viafmtsr that used cpu.
For dos gaming I use now a 486 dx2 66mhz with yamaha ISA sound card.

So if HP T5720 does not work with SBemu does that mean the HP T5710 will not work either ?

b0by007 wrote on 2023-05-07, 21:29:

I use and recomand HP T5720 for retro win98 gaming. I played Diablo 2 Lod, Drakan, Quake 2, Unreal and other games at decent res […]
Show full quote

I use and recomand HP T5720 for retro win98 gaming. I played Diablo 2 Lod, Drakan, Quake 2, Unreal and other games at decent resolution 800x600.
It has some problems with sound in dos. With WDM drivers it installs set blaster enviroment, but some games have problems, duke3d for exemple, sound is not working.
I tested SBEMU and is not working with that chipset.
I had another thinclient just for dos games: Fujjitsu Futro B210 with 64mb ram. It worked great (with sound through VIASBCFG by Jazefox) for late dos titles like duke3d, strife, hexen and other, but really old games like prehistorik 2 just didnt work. And if I used setmul to slow it down, audio was getting choppy becouse of viafmtsr that used cpu.
For dos gaming I use now a 486 dx2 66mhz with yamaha ISA sound card.

I dont have HP T5710. Just HPT5720.
But I think HP T5710 is working becouse it uses VIA VT82C686 audio chip.
My HP T5720 has different sound chip: SiS7012.

b0by007 wrote on 2023-05-07, 22:29:

I dont have HP T5710. Just HPT5720.
But I think HP T5710 is working becouse it uses VIA VT82C686 audio chip.
My HP T5720 has different sound chip: SiS7012.

Thanks again good to know

My two cents. I've gone back and forth for years, trying to figure out the thin client footprint that works for me. This is what I settled with.

Primarily I run two thin clients (already mentioned above) to cover two different eras of 90's PC gaming.
1) Neoware CA2 (originally purchased for $25):
- Currently running Win98SE/DOS
- 64MB RAM + ESS ES1869F ISA sound card with Serdashop's E-Wave wavetable board
- Runs Doom 1 + 2, Duke3D, Quake without need for slow down
- Slowdown via SetMul is required for games like Day of the Tentacle and Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis
- Joystick port on the sound card allows me to play my old flight games like Wing Commander 1 + 2, X-Wing, and TIE Fighter

2) HP 5720 (originally purchased for $65):
- Currently running WinXP
- 1GB RAM + GeForce 6200 512MB PCI video card
- Runs Half Life and other late 90's Windows games like a champ

Thin client projects in storage that I'll get around to working with, one of these days with some commentary:

• Neoware CA10: Similar internals to the Neoware CA2, except that the expansion is PCI only. I'll focus on Win98SE/DOS for this build by throwing in a PCI sound card.

• Fujitsu Futro S400: I haven't decided which focus to take here (either Windows 98SE or XP).

• Wyse Cx0: Cheap $20 thin client focused on WinXP. No Win98 drivers from VIA. You can do DOS but you won't be able to add a sound card so you're stuck with PC internal speaker. EDIT: Just found out that SBEMU works for SB sound in DOS!!!

OldWingCommander wrote on 2023-05-07, 23:44:

My two cents. I've gone back and forth for years, trying to figure out the thin client footprint that works for me. This is what […]
Show full quote

My two cents. I've gone back and forth for years, trying to figure out the thin client footprint that works for me. This is what I settled with.

Primarily I run two thin clients (already mentioned above) to cover two different eras of 90's PC gaming.
1) Neoware CA2 (originally purchased for $25):
- Currently running Win98SE/DOS
- 64MB RAM + ESS ES1869F ISA sound card with Serdashop's E-Wave wavetable board
- Runs Doom 1 + 2, Duke3D, Quake without need for slow down
- Slowdown via SetMul is required for games like Day of the Tentacle and Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis
- Joystick port on the sound card allows me to play my old flight games like Wing Commander 1 + 2, X-Wing, and TIE Fighter

2) HP 5720 (originally purchased for $65):
- Currently running WinXP
- 1GB RAM + GeForce 6200 512MB PCI video card
- Runs Half Life and other late 90's Windows games like a champ

Thin client projects in storage that I'll get around to working with, one of these days with some commentary:

• Neoware CA10: Similar internals to the Neoware CA2, except that the expansion is PCI only. I'll focus on Win98SE/DOS for this build by throwing in a PCI sound card.

• Fujitsu Futro S400: I haven't decided which focus to take here (either Windows 98SE or XP).

• Wyse Cx0: Cheap $20 thin client focused on WinXP. No Win98 drivers from VIA. You can do DOS but you won't be able to add a sound card so you're stuck with PC internal speaker.

So according to the above the HP T5710 is still the best all around DOS/Win98 thin client to get . The HP T5710 should not need an extra sound card for DOS

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-08, 00:01:

So according to the above the HP T5710 is still the best all around DOS/Win98 thin client to get . The HP T5710 should not need an extra sound card for DOS

One observation: you are very focused on specific machines. I don't think you ever listed what your specific goals and target Win98/DOS use cases are?

OldWingCommander wrote on 2023-05-08, 00:12:

Biomecanoid wrote on 2023-05-08, 00:01:

So according to the above the HP T5710 is still the best all around DOS/Win98 thin client to get . The HP T5710 should not need an extra sound card for DOS

One observation: you are very focused on specific machines. I don't think you ever listed what your specific goals and target Win98/DOS use cases are?

OK let me give you more details then.

* If possible I would like Native DOS support with sound ( even with SBemu )
* Win98 support with drivers
* Powerful enough CPU for games
* Support for IDE not just CF cards
* PCI slot for future upgrades if needed
* Booting from USB

The purpose is to make a retro gaming machine in a small footprint

OK I found some different think clients. Let me know what you think:

* Wyse Thin Client R50L Linux Sempron 1.5GHz 1GB Memory

* Igel UD3 Thin Client Dual Core Via Eden 1GHz CPU 1GB

* DELL Thin Client D05U, Atom 230, 4GB SSD, 2GB Memory

* HP Thin Client t5565 VIA Nano u3500 1 GHz, VIA VX900 chipset, 1 GB 800 MHz DDR3 RAM

* HP Thin Client T5550, 1GHz VIA Nano U3500, 512MB Flash, 4GB DDR3, 2 GB Flash

* Fujitsu Futro S500, AMD Sempron 2100, 512mb RAM, 4GB Flash

* WYSE R90LEW Thin Client 1,5 GHz / 1GB RAM / 2GB Flash

* Siemens Futro S200, Transmeta Crusoe TM-5800 800 MHz CPU, RAM DDR 128 MB

* HP T5520 VIA Eden 800 MHz, 128 MB of DDR SDRAM, 64mb flash

* NEOWARE CA22 1 GHz VIA C7 Prozessor, 256 MB DDR2

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/R90L/ … s-IA-100912.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGUOqOjlMU

I don’t have personal experience with any of them. You’ll need to do the legwork to cross reference the south bridges and check Win98 driver availability.

If you’re looking for a single box that can cover a lot of ground with nothing extra needed, then the HP T5710 is what you probably want to get (DOS sound, + Win98 drivers + solid 3D acceleration in a single box).

Otherwise, you will need to play the trade off game. You’ll have to be very patient if you want to pick up hardware for low cost.