Honestly I can’t say I have found a huge need to have a dedicated windows xp machine at all. I’m sure there are games out there that need it but I’ve found that it doesn’t take much effort to get stuff playing just fine windows 10. Especially with GOG out there. XP is just similar enough to modern windows that I just didn’t allot of issues.

98 and earlier though is where dedicated hardware becomes a bigger deal imo.

Edit: for your specific situation though I would think it would make the most sense to make a build geared towards playing the games that you said needed it to run properly? Which games are you needing it for?

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 17:48:

Honestly I can’t say I have found a huge need to have a dedicated windows xp machine at all. I’m sure there are games out there that need it but I’ve found that it doesn’t take much effort to get stuff playing just fine windows 10. Especially with GOG out there. XP is just similar enough to modern windows that I just didn’t allot of issues.

98 and earlier though is where dedicated hardware becomes a bigger deal imo.

Edit: for your specific situation though I would think it would make the most sense to make a build geared towards playing the games that you said needed it to run properly? Which games are you needing it for?

I've actually found it the other way round. a lot of 9x games work or can be made to work on XP vs newer. The fact newer OS's are typically 64bit maybe part of the reason and running 32bit may have less issues, but alot of unofficial patches for games wee written with XP in mind. Not to mention it's the last OS that supports truly EAX. It's the lack of nostalgia that hurts XP, even now it still feels too new.

What I haven't found is unlike earlier OS's you don't really have speed/compatibility issues. So as long as you can get official/unofficial drivers for XP the fact it's massively overkill for anything XP needs doesn't really matter.

My newest gaming PC is a Duel 1366 based PC with a GeForce GTX 780 and SoundBlaster X-Fi which plays my few modern games fine but also everything has official XP drivers so no issues in XP either.
and you can still go newer then this if you play more demanding modern games.

I also prefer Windows XP most of the time.
In most cases, it simply works and doesn't have micro stutter or lags.
Even with old titles, it often works better than it should.

However, I'm also glad that Windows 98 can be used to have real DirectX 6.1 or 7.
These were classic late 90s DirectX releases that predate the shader concept.

Similarily, Windows 95 is nice to have for native DirectX 3 support.
A lot of commercial titles and hobbyists works did start out with DirectX 3.
Some used Direct3D retained mode, too.

DirectX 3 Redistributable Runtime was special in so far that it shipped with a set of
DirectX-enabled graphics drivers (S3 Trio and ViRGE, for example), which replaced the existing system drivers.

It was different to the later practice,
in which the graphics card maker was developing DirectX compatible drivers.

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 17:48:

Honestly I can’t say I have found a huge need to have a dedicated windows xp machine at all. I’m sure there are games out there that need it but I’ve found that it doesn’t take much effort to get stuff playing just fine windows 10. Especially with GOG out there. XP is just similar enough to modern windows that I just didn’t allot of issues.

Yeah, this. People keep telling me it's worth it for EAX. I honestly don't give that much of a crap about sound beyond DOS gaming, to me it does not make enough of a difference to have real hardware. I'll be selling my Socket 754 WinXP PC soon, for this reason alone.

I have no interest in Windows XP. It's probably a nostalgia thing for me, but I have several DOS/9x machines and maybe one XP purpose built PC that I have never used.
Sure EAX is a thing, I don't care. I guess maybe I wasn't playing titles that were popular during that time frame.
I don't know but either way DOS/9x is where it's at for me, and likely always will be.

With regards to EAX, a lot of people (myself included) used on-board audio during the mid 2000s. Those integrated solutions usually supported up to EAX 2 (and even that didn't sound great), while games from that time went up to EAX 4 and 5.

I understand why someone who has only experienced this using on-board audio might not be impressed. But if you try EAX on an X-Fi Titanium with a pair of quality headphones, and play games that use it well, it can enhance your experience quite a bit. On that setup, try something like Doom 3, F.E.A.R. or Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory with and without EAX, and you'll immediately notice the difference. More details here: EAX appreciation thread

I already bought X-Fi Titanium while back for XP, even I have not yet started to assemble computers yet. 😀 Focus on XP for one of my computers.

Right now sorting the computers I have to thin down first for one XP PC. Having hard time deciding what to keep one of case between Sony Vaio with 4 bays for hard drives and slot for floppy drive, (rare to see) or keep HP case which can fit a full sized GTX GPU but case is also mATX and is FM2 socket and all PCIe (x16 and three x1).

Alternatively, I can swap out the board because case does have snap in i/o panel, ditto to Sony VAIO case and same for Optiplex 990 case. The rest of boards I have in storage are ATX and I only have one case on hand that can take this; either PIII 800 or Athlon 64 socket 754 VIA motherboard for win98SE.

VAIO and optiplex 990 case can only take about 8" or less GPU card, or guessing 7" long.

These 3 computers I have is mATX, are P4 with 915 chipset and HP case is FM2 AMD with southbridge A75 chipset which is not exactly supports XP properly and underpowered compared to i7-2600 in my Dell Optiplex 990 but no room and one slot wide, for full GTX.

Looks like I might have to buy a mATX motherboard to take i7-2600 and put it into HP case so I can play with GTX 285, GTX 580 etc.

Decisions...

Cheers,

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 17:48:

Honestly I can’t say I have found a huge need to have a dedicated windows xp machine at all. I’m sure there are games out there that need it but I’ve found that it doesn’t take much effort to get stuff playing just fine windows 10. Especially with GOG out there. XP is just similar enough to modern windows that I just didn’t allot of issues. run properly? Which games are you needing it for?

This is just one example, but Empire Earth ONLY runs without issues on XP. It just does not run well on any OS newer than XP. Doesn't matter of its the GOG version or a VM, it will always stutter and freeze regularly. There may be other games in the same boat. IMO it's definitely worth having a dedicated XP system. It had such a long life span and so many great games were designed around it.

Brawndo wrote on 2023-06-12, 23:47:

This is just one example, but Empire Earth ONLY runs without issues on XP. It just does not run well on any OS newer than XP.

I've had some full sessions of EE on Win7 x64 before (native, no wrappers or VM) 😖 Maybe a video driver issue is at fault here. EE can also run on Win98 fwiw.

Brawndo wrote on 2023-06-12, 23:47:

FinalJenemba wrote on 2023-06-11, 17:48:

Honestly I can’t say I have found a huge need to have a dedicated windows xp machine at all. I’m sure there are games out there that need it but I’ve found that it doesn’t take much effort to get stuff playing just fine windows 10. Especially with GOG out there. XP is just similar enough to modern windows that I just didn’t allot of issues. run properly? Which games are you needing it for?

This is just one example, but Empire Earth ONLY runs without issues on XP. It just does not run well on any OS newer than XP. Doesn't matter of its the GOG version or a VM, it will always stutter and freeze regularly. There may be other games in the same boat. IMO it's definitely worth having a dedicated XP system. It had such a long life span and so many great games were designed around it.

interesting, from looking at gog site EE seems ok right up to win 10 now - but further back there were W10 problems (though some reviews seem to say its more with drivers). the fact that reviewers on W10 say its fine would make me happy to get gog version

nevertheless - i agree that having a good XP is ideal and especially for CD games where gog isnt an option (and it really doesn't have to be some multicore 64 bit machine, just a nice regular P4 or AthlonXP will do)

Dedicated XP machines are essential IMO. So cheap to put together, covers such a long span between 2001 and 2007. EAX, dx9 optimized drivers, and reminiscing of one of MSs best OSs.

MS's best OS is Windows 2000.

My main use case for a Windows XP system is in fact being able to run old 16b Windows code on a modern system. Win3.11 is great, but not if you want to run on modern hardware - particularly monitors. Civ 2 on 2560x1440 is something to behold, and that takes something that can handle that kind of resolution (and the cards to drive it), yet still run 16b software. 32b Windows XP fits the bill perfectly.

For XP-era games, I find I can run anything I actually like fine under Win11.

Have no need for any NT-based Windows on my old computers, all software from the Windows XP era runs fine on my modern one (with workarounds for several occasions though).

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-06-13, 15:15:

Have no need for any NT-based Windows on my old computers, all software from the Windows XP era runs fine on my modern one (with workarounds for several occasions though).

People say that, but search for pretty much any game like "<game name> win10“ to find pages and pages of people reporting problems like game not launching or graphics glitches. I had several games myself like that. Go back to XP with a 19" lcd, a xfi titanium and 750ti and everything is perfect.

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-13, 18:21:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-06-13, 15:15:

Have no need for any NT-based Windows on my old computers, all software from the Windows XP era runs fine on my modern one (with workarounds for several occasions though).

People say that, but search for pretty much any game like "<game name> win10“ to find pages and pages of people reporting problems like game not launching or graphics glitches. I had several games myself like that. Go back to XP with a 19" lcd, a xfi titanium and 750ti and everything is perfect.

Nothing is perfect and that's why I said the bolded part which may involve patches, wrappers, tweaks, etc. 😉

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:28:

With regards to EAX, a lot of people (myself included) used on-board audio during the mid 2000s. Those integrated solutions usually supported up to EAX 2 (and even that didn't sound great), while games from that time went up to EAX 4 and 5.

I understand why someone who has only experienced this using on-board audio might not be impressed. But if you try EAX on an X-Fi Titanium with a pair of quality headphones, and play games that use it well, it can enhance your experience quite a bit. On that setup, try something like Doom 3, F.E.A.R. or Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory with and without EAX, and you'll immediately notice the difference. More details here: EAX appreciation thread

You are almost certainly correct. I have never and will probably never game with headphones on though, I wear headphones all the time at work.
By the time I get home I want nothing to do with them, same goes for computers anymore tbh. Maybe I'm just getting old.

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-13, 09:56:

MS's best OS is Windows 2000.

I agree.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-06-13, 19:51:

You are almost certainly correct. I have never and will probably never game with headphones on though, I wear headphones all the time at work.
By the time I get home I want nothing to do with them, same goes for computers anymore tbh. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Perfectly understandable. I too rarely use headphones nowadays, simply because I find them cumbersome during longer gaming sessions (2+ hours).

Although headphones are probably the optimal way to experience EAX, I usually fall back on a set of 5.1 surround sound speakers. It's decent enough for my own needs, and much more comfortable.