VOGONS


First post, by serialShinobi

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Hello. I was just thinking about wireless networking and was wondering if there is a way to negotiate a WPA key with an authenticator without a supplicant?

Also can a WPA key be transmitted to a WPA authenticator with a software defined radio?

Maybe a handheld 386 or a pda could connect to wifi this way -- not with an operating system but a transceiver + software defined radio.

I was thinking of a way to use Intel's 386 handheld reference design from the 90s or a PDA in a warehouse inventory tracking system.

Does DOS and Slackware for i386 both have ways of using wifi that don't need a software radio? That is can one get drivers and an operating system service to connect to wifi?

I remember back in the 90s Intel had a reference design for a hand held PC with 386 processor. Using an SDR could be a fun project for a so endowed PC. Could synch with a warehouse inventory managment system.

Reply 1 of 6, by Warlord

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does it have to be portable? you could just hardwire it using Cat5 to a WAP, then let the hardware in the WAP do all of the negotiating and translation from your WIFI to the PC.

Reply 2 of 6, by serialShinobi

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Unfortunately it should be portable. The idea is to make a way for a thing once used in the 90s to track inventory, which was portable then, to sync it's data using modern wifi standards.

Was also wondering if there are ways to transmit a cryptographic key by radio as in 2 GHz draft g wireless.

Reply 3 of 6, by dionb

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You can't do the WPA four-way handshake without a supplicant for the simple reason that 'supplicant' is one of the two defined roles in the WPA process (the other being 'authenticator'). You can't clap your hands with the right hand missing...

Moreover, WPA doesn't work with a single, permanent key. Instead, a pairwise master key (PMK) is derived from either the PSK or from a RADIUS authentication process. However this key isn't used to encrypt/decrypt communication, it is used to repeatedly generate temporary pairwise transient keys (PTKs) that are actually used to do that, so you need to not just play supplicant once, but repeat it during a connection, depending on the PTK rekey interval.

However getting the PTK/GTK keys is just going to be the least of your worries - I suspect that the type of client you're considering simply doesn't have enough processing power to encrypt data in software, and certainly won't have hardware acceleration of AES functions. So I second Warlord's suggestion of getting some dedicated WiFi hardware to do the heavy lifting here. That would also massively simplify the software scope of what you are suggesting (right now it sounds like you are proposing writing a WPA supplicant function from scratch on a vintage platform).

If it has to be portable, take a look at the Espressif ESP32 or ESP8266 modules, which are bascially Arduino modules with built-in WiFi hardware. Nothing fancy, just 2.4GHz, but hardware WPA2 support and software libraries to easily use those features. There are ready-made solutions out there to make one of those modules behave like a serial modem towards vintage devices, letting them communicate over WiFi.

Take a look here:
https://subethasoftware.com/2018/02/28/wire-u … modem-firmware/
Or here:
https://github.com/bozimmerman/Zimodem

Last edited by dionb on 2024-01-01, 13:25. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 6, by acl

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dionb wrote on 2023-07-01, 20:34:

If it has to be portable, take a look at the Espressif ESP32 or ESP8622 modules, which are bascially Arduino modules with built-in WiFi hardware. Nothing fancy, just 2.4GHz, but hardware WPA2 support and software libraries to easily use those features. There are ready-made solutions out there to make one of those modules behave like a serial modem towards vintage devices, letting them communicate over WiFi.

+1 This solution.

I never tried with wifi. But I did try with Ethernet (Raspberry PI, not ESP). Works well.. just a bit slow because limited by the serial link.

Raspberry/clone + USB serial adapter + null modem cable. With a PPP daemon running on the RPi.
This would allow you to "dial" to the RPi over serial like a modem. The RPi can in turn bridge or route the serial and the wifi connections.

ESP modules are cheaper, more energy efficient and smaller then an RPi. But i tested with that I had.

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Reply 5 of 6, by serialShinobi

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Thanks. Acl and dion b. A module with function(s) needed is what I was trying to conceive of. Not only does this suggestion seem interesting to me I feel resolve to carry it out. So, historically Intel had a hand held PC based on a 386 reference design back in the late 90s. So, having some kind of logistics/inventory handheld PC from the 1990s and the added function of the wifi standard(s) modules mentioned, the device could sync with the inventory management software. Perhaps running on SCO Unix? I saw a desktop computer running SCO Unix in a room at Walgreens where I worked. I called the Santa cruz operation and asked how much it cost to buy the software. She told me that there was no charge beyond that of the disc and postage.

Reply 6 of 6, by allenhuffman

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dionb wrote on 2023-07-01, 20:34:
Take a look here: https://subethasoftware.com/2018/02/28/wire-u … modem-firmware/ Or here: https://github.com/bozimmerman/Zimode […]
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Take a look here:
https://subethasoftware.com/2018/02/28/wire-u … modem-firmware/
Or here:
https://github.com/bozimmerman/Zimodem

I find it very appropriate to have a site called Vogons linking to my Sub-Etha Software blog, also named after Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.