fosterwj03 wrote on 2024-03-26, 02:31:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-25, 00:04:

Continued on my quest to see how many Windows installs I can cram onto a single PC.

If you're feeling adventurous, you could try Windows NT 3.1. It runs beautifully on my G7S620 with a SB16, D- link network card, and a Matrox Impression Plus.

It's the fastest fully functional (with audio, networking, and high-res video) NT 3.1 system that I own. You're pretty much limited to running Windows 3.x software, but that's part of the charm.

That's an intriguing idea. I hadn't considered trying an earlier version of NT, since I wasn't sure how compatibility would work with the processor or even graphics.

I did have to use a modified SVGA driver to get 256 colors in Windows 3.11. Would the same driver likely work under NT 3.1?

Brianboyracer wrote on 2024-03-26, 13:19:

Love BootIt Bare Metal, I do similar to what you do re install w98se once then just copy it into new partitions for different sound and graphics card combos. I always keep a plain vanilla w98 install ready to copy for new combo. I’ve an identical multi boot for my Thinkpad 600E which has drivers all the way from DOS to XP

That's an interesting idea about having a vanilla install and then just copying it. I hadn't considered that when I set up my boot partitions.

It would certainly make multiple Win 98 setups go faster!

Another nForce 2 to have fun with, Soltek SL-75FRN2-RL. Probably my 4th one in almost a whole decade and the 1st (and only) to work properly.

Didn't do a full recap as it wasn't really needed... most of the caps aren't the most abysmal choices Soltek could have gone with by a long shot.

The only caps replaced were a 1000uF 6.3v near the RAM slots (there's a Panny FR installed there) which was there when I got the board. I suspect that was the only GSC that had gone bad as the rest of them small value (1000 and sub) buggers are exclusively OST RLX, a brand I'd have seen used widely on A7N8X as well.

The only ones that I have replaced were a row of 5x KZGs. They were in spec and fine but I'm not risking any chances with those, especially when I have Ruby MBZ on hand.

It's currently equipped with a standard Thorton AXP 2400 - none of my spare 2500s work anymore 🙁, and the only 512K Barton I have is a mobile 2400+ (and a 2600+ iniside a Gericom Blockbuster Advance laptop, the same laptop recently reviewed by Phil except black.) that shows up as Unknown AMD Type. I am trying to get a BIOS update in there soon, to check if it supports XP-M chips.

Other stuff - 9600 Pro from Gecube (for now), 2x512MB ADATA Vitesta DDR500 + 1x512MB PQI Turbo, LG GSA-H58N DVDRW, custom Titan cooler 😀, CWT ISO-500PP PSU and Samsung SP1654N HDD.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-26, 16:48:

That's an intriguing idea. I hadn't considered trying an earlier version of NT, since I wasn't sure how compatibility would work with the processor or even graphics.

I did have to use a modified SVGA driver to get 256 colors in Windows 3.11. Would the same driver likely work under NT 3.1?

Windows 3.x drivers don't work in Windows NT. Fortunately, Bearwindows developed the VBEMP generic VESA driver for NT-based operating systems:

https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/vbe9x.htm

I've had good experience with this driver on Windows 3.51 with integrated Intel graphics. It can handle any VESA-mode resolution and color-depth your card offers including widescreen modes if available. Unfortunately, I haven't had as much luck on NT 3.1 with Intel graphics. I suppose I could try again using an AGP FX 5200 as a stand-in for your 4000-series card if I have time.

Bearwindows also has installation guides for various versions of NT to get around some of the installation bugs such as CPU identification errors on processors newer than an original Pentium. It's a bit of prep work, but the instructions create a near-universal installation package.

NT 3.1: https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/winnt31x.htm

NT 3.51: https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/winnt351.htm

Be aware that NT 3.1 doesn't have a built-in ATAPI driver for drives. It can only handle IDE drives up to 8GB in size. I don't know what the implications might be for your partition scheme. You can get a NT 3.1-compatible ATAPI CD-ROM driver from here: http://files.mpoli.fi/hardware/CDROM/AZTECH/IDE-NT.ZIP . Note that this ATAPI driver only works with optical drives (and no other kinds of drives). The optical drive(s) must be on a separate IDE channel from other types of ATAPI drives such as hard drives, tape drives, Zip drives, etc.

NT 3.51 has an ATAPI driver, but you'll want to replace it with the one from NT 4.0 SP6 or UNIATA for large drive support (greater than 8GB and 128GB respectively).

I don't know how your Orpheus II will fair. If it's truly SB Pro compatible, then you could try the NT Sound Blaster drivers that come with the OS. I don't know how they will work with a Plug 'n Play card, though. Good luck.

Nope, still no good using VBEMP with Windows NT 3.1. I tried two different video cards (a Matrox Millennium and a GeForce FX 5200). I got a service load error from Windows regardless.

I don't know if I installed the driver correctly. I expanded FRAMEBUF.DLL from the i386 installation folder and put the DLL in the NT's SYSTEM32 folder. I also used the Windows Setup utility to install the VBEMP driver. It looked like the INF file updated the registry properly. Yet, the driver still wouldn't load. Weird.

Oddly, the same driver works just fine in VirtualBox. Oh well.

I stopped by the thrift store while in town yesterday for an appointment and lucked into something I never expected to own... especially not for $21 CAD.

I spent all of yesterday scrubbing the black scuffs off it and replacing a couple of missing screws, and it's still morning today, so I haven't done any testing yet, or even pre-test inspection of the components, but, even if I wind up just using it as an external enclosure where I have to replace every component, that's still a huge bargain. 😀

...and yes, the case is clearly a generic unit and it does have two knock-outs on the back for installing a couple of Amphenol C50 connectors to use it as an external SCSI housing.

(I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do with it. On the one hand, it'd be useful as an enclosure and those are tricky to find. On the other hand, it's a vintage DVD duplicator. I remember seeing those in the catalogues I'd read as a kid and, storage space aside, it'd be cool to have one just to have one.)

Well then, guess you have to burn a candle for Saint Isidore of Seville and beg him to let you mod it.

(Unofficial patron saint of computers and tech if anyone thinks that was too random)

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-03-27, 14:23:

Well then, guess you have to burn a candle for Saint Isidore of Seville and beg him to let you mod it.

(Unofficial patron saint of computers and tech if anyone thinks that was too random)

*chuckle* I shouldn't need to "modify" anything. The thing is literally a five-bay AT case with knock-outs for SCSI connectors and no room for a motherboard. It's only "modding" if pulling apart the nostalgic Celeron 1.2GHz from my teenage years and building a new machine in its case would be.

The question is whether I value having a hard-to-find but useful case or a harder-to-find and useless device more.

Spent way longer than I would have expected learning the joys of setting up and configuring older Compaq systems, with a Deskpro XE 450 I picked up a while ago. Finding the setup software was just the beginning, and even that took a little bit of digging - the HP ftp site seems to be gone, but luckily there's at least one site hosting a (mostly) complete archive. Couldn't find a user manual though.

I had big problems trying to upgrade the RAM. It has 4mb onboard, and it would run through a memory test of any RAM I added, but it would also throw a not very helpful "memory allocation" error on startup. Once I found a Compaq diagnostic disk, it gave me a parity error and.... oh. It requires parity RAM - exactly what I have none of, super.

Anyway, I was going to give the onboard sound a chance, but I got tired of fighting with it and put in a SB16. No onboard gameport anyway. Upgraded the video too - the motherboard supports a special Kingston video memory upgrade, but there's no way I'm finding one of those. And unfortunately, it also supports a proprietary Kingston cache upgrade module which, again, I will never be able to find. Swapped the passive cooled DX2/50 for a DX2/66 with a fan.

But that's ok! I have other computers to be faster. I've got this booting DOS 6.22 from the HD, no errors on startup, yay!

It suffered some damage in shipping, which I see requires a bit more persuasion with my pliers.. also missing the light pipe for the HD LED.

Oh and:

☹️

fosterwj03 wrote on 2024-03-27, 02:06:

Nope, still no good using VBEMP with Windows NT 3.1. I tried two different video cards (a Matrox Millennium and a GeForce FX 5200). I got a service load error from Windows regardless.

I don't know if I installed the driver correctly. I expanded FRAMEBUF.DLL from the i386 installation folder and put the DLL in the NT's SYSTEM32 folder. I also used the Windows Setup utility to install the VBEMP driver. It looked like the INF file updated the registry properly. Yet, the driver still wouldn't load. Weird.

Oddly, the same driver works just fine in VirtualBox. Oh well.

Thanks for looking into that and all the info on NT 3.11 with this board.

I might do a stand-alone test install with another G7S620 board to see if it's worth putting on the main build.

In the mean time, I need to figure out if I can get Windows 3.11 to run at higher than 60 Hz.

I tested the Radeon 9700 I got by surprise the other day, and well...oh you Radeon 9700/9800, always killing yourself!
I tried pressing on the memory modules, the patterns don't change...so it's back to the seller.

Tested out the feasibility of doing a late-80's EGA & Adlib build, but with a Pentium 4.

This seems like a dumb idea, but I want to do it all the same...

Got an SB-link cable and a 3COM etherlink card out of the mailbox.
Also found out that an ATX psu without the -5V rail actually can power a PS/2 (I thought it wouldn't).

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-28, 18:19:

Tested out the feasibility of doing a late-80's EGA & Adlib build, but with a Pentium 4.

This seems like a dumb idea, but I want to do it all the same...

I'm jealous of you guys that have EGA systems and monitors. I doubt that I'll ever get my hands on that stuff given the scarcity and prices.

PcBytes wrote on 2024-03-26, 21:27:

Another nForce 2 to have fun with, Soltek SL-75FRN2-RL. Probably my 4th one in almost a whole decade and the 1st (and only) to w […]
Show full quote

Another nForce 2 to have fun with, Soltek SL-75FRN2-RL. Probably my 4th one in almost a whole decade and the 1st (and only) to work properly.

Didn't do a full recap as it wasn't really needed... most of the caps aren't the most abysmal choices Soltek could have gone with by a long shot.

The only caps replaced were a 1000uF 6.3v near the RAM slots (there's a Panny FR installed there) which was there when I got the board. I suspect that was the only GSC that had gone bad as the rest of them small value (1000 and sub) buggers are exclusively OST RLX, a brand I'd have seen used widely on A7N8X as well.

The only ones that I have replaced were a row of 5x KZGs. They were in spec and fine but I'm not risking any chances with those, especially when I have Ruby MBZ on hand.

It's currently equipped with a standard Thorton AXP 2400 - none of my spare 2500s work anymore 🙁, and the only 512K Barton I have is a mobile 2400+ (and a 2600+ iniside a Gericom Blockbuster Advance laptop, the same laptop recently reviewed by Phil except black.) that shows up as Unknown AMD Type. I am trying to get a BIOS update in there soon, to check if it supports XP-M chips.

Other stuff - 9600 Pro from Gecube (for now), 2x512MB ADATA Vitesta DDR500 + 1x512MB PQI Turbo, LG GSA-H58N DVDRW, custom Titan cooler 😀, CWT ISO-500PP PSU and Samsung SP1654N HDD.

Would you help a fellow countryman with some recapping? I don't have the caps, tools, and I don't see as good as 10 yrs ago...

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-03-28, 21:09:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-28, 18:19:

Tested out the feasibility of doing a late-80's EGA & Adlib build, but with a Pentium 4.

This seems like a dumb idea, but I want to do it all the same...

I'm jealous of you guys that have EGA systems and monitors. I doubt that I'll ever get my hands on that stuff given the scarcity and prices.

I dunno if it really does anything that a decently compatible VGA card doesn't cover, I mean MDA/Herc has the alternate address 2nd monitor trick and eerie colored glows off the screen, CGA has the composite color trick, EGA has.... *crickets* ... IDK halfassed not yet VGAness.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-03-28, 21:24:

I dunno if it really does anything that a decently compatible VGA card doesn't cover, I mean MDA/Herc has the alternate address 2nd monitor trick and eerie colored glows off the screen, CGA has the composite color trick, EGA has.... *crickets* ... IDK halfassed not yet VGAness.

It has the glorious 16-colors of retro 80s goodness! 😁

Trying to get a mobile Barton XP-M 2600+ to ID itself as mobile AMD Athlon on two nForce mobos, the recent SL-75FRN2-RL and a MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR since they're both similar.

Am I really wrong in thinking the "Unknown CPU type" followed by a speed in the 2GHz range (give or take) is the sign that the chip is running properly?

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-03-28, 21:24:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-03-28, 21:09:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-28, 18:19:

Tested out the feasibility of doing a late-80's EGA & Adlib build, but with a Pentium 4.

This seems like a dumb idea, but I want to do it all the same...

I'm jealous of you guys that have EGA systems and monitors. I doubt that I'll ever get my hands on that stuff given the scarcity and prices.

I dunno if it really does anything that a decently compatible VGA card doesn't cover, I mean MDA/Herc has the alternate address 2nd monitor trick and eerie colored glows off the screen, CGA has the composite color trick, EGA has.... *crickets* ... IDK halfassed not yet VGAness.

I don't know a ton about how EGA compares to VGA and SVGA, but I was under the impression that there would be differences, at least when comparing monitors? I could be wrong though. I'd actually like to be wrong because that would mean having one less thing on my pipe dream wish list.

IMO it gets it's "Least worst PC video standard of 87-88" title by having better colors than hercules, and better text and resolution than CGA.