VOGONS


First post, by sp3hybrid

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Hi retro tech enthusiasts,

I have a peculiar problem with one of my Socket 7 motherboards which seems to be working fine, but at 1/4 of its speed. The motherboard is a EPoX/ProNiX EP-P55-BT (https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/epox-pronix-ep-p55-bt). I am using the following configuration:

CPU: Intern Pentium 100 Mhz (Non-MMX, slowest supported by this board)
Ram: Two sticks of 16 Mb EDO DIMM ram @ 5V
Storage: 64Mb CF card on integrated primary IDE with DOS 6.22

The board boots fine but runs at about 25% of its speed and emits a permanent 1.15 kHz sound from the PC speaker. This is super imposed to the other regular system post beeps. System Information identified the CPU as a Pentium 25 Mhz and the CPU benchmark support this with a score of 78. CHKCPU shows it as a Pentium 25Mhz. CACHECHK shows this a s a Pentium clocked at 25Mhz with memory speeds of 31/11/20 for Level1/Level2/Memory speeds. It is curious that the L1 cache is so slow here.

This is what I have tried so far:
- Flashed BIOS to image available on the retro web (no effect)
- CTRL + ALT + "+/-" lowers the speed further (not a Turbo setting issue)
- Disable L1 or L2 cache or both which slows things down more
- Disabled power saving features in BIOS (no effect)\
- Checked bus frequency on CPU pin which was stable 66.7 Mhz
- Check CPU multiplier pins which were correctly set to 1.5x
- "Overclocked through board jumper setting to 120Mhz and 130Mhz which increased the speed metrics accordingly, just at 0.25% of set speeds. Clocking 150Mhz and higher will not boot which leads me to believe that the CPU receives the correct bus speed and multiplier. I also verified bus speed and multiplier on the socket pins for these settings
- Replaced CPU with Pentium 133. Same results. 1/4 of expected speeds.

I am not sure what to try next on this board or what causes the slow L1 cache speeds and the permanent 1.15 khz PC speaker sound. I am grateful for any advice on what to try next. Have you experienced such behavior before?

Thank you

Reply 1 of 9, by Horun

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Hmm. Does the BIOS report a Pentium at 100Mhz ? How did you read the cpu clock ?
Suggest Pull/ disconnect everything but the video card, and floppy drive. Run a DOS based system tool like HWinfo, Speedsys, Chkcpu, etc from floppy.
Could be a general board failure in the TX BGA chipset.... or could be something else....
One thing I mentally note is that the clock IC is in top right of pictures but the jumpers to set speed are way across the board at bottom right.
Not a design guru but that can be problematic no matter what board you work with (trace lengths, bad via's, cold solder joints, etc) with age.
Has the board ever worked proper in your possession ?

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 9, by Sphere478

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Pull all cards, go minimal with different cards.

I’m going to assume turbo button isn’t functional, but you could try a jumper on the pins (though that probably isn’t it)

Try a benchmarking comparison like speedsys. Are the benchmarks also lower?

Pull that cf card out. Bull the floppy cable out.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 3 of 9, by sp3hybrid

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Hi Horun and Sphere478

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I tried running the benchmarks from a floppy drive with the CF removed and only a graphics card connected but this yielded the same results.

Horun wrote on 2024-04-14, 04:27:
Hmm. Does the BIOS report a Pentium at 100Mhz ? How did you read the cpu clock ? Suggest Pull/ disconnect everything but the vid […]
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Hmm. Does the BIOS report a Pentium at 100Mhz ? How did you read the cpu clock ?
Suggest Pull/ disconnect everything but the video card, and floppy drive. Run a DOS based system tool like HWinfo, Speedsys, Chkcpu, etc from floppy.
Could be a general board failure in the TX BGA chipset.... or could be something else....
One thing I mentally note is that the clock IC is in top right of pictures but the jumpers to set speed are way across the board at bottom right.
Not a design guru but that can be problematic no matter what board you work with (trace lengths, bad via's, cold solder joints, etc) with age.
Has the board ever worked proper in your possession ?

Yes, the bios reports the correct setting on post. I also ran Speedsys (not sure why I didn't before) and this also reports the bus speed correctly at 66Mhz and the processor speed and multiplier correctly at 100Mhz @ 1.5. The board was faulty when I received it. The previous owner stated that it stopped working when he inserted 3.3V SDRAM without changing the jumpers from 5V DIMM to 3.3V SDRAM. After leaning expansion slot, CPU and ram sockets, I got it working to the point it is today. I measured the CPU clock with the CPU removed on the CLK pin of the socket (also checked multiplier this way). It could be that this isn't true any more once the CPU is inserted but speedsys still reports the correct values. I may try measuring this on the running board from the underside of the CPU socket. The clock chip is a PhaseLink PLL52C62-01XC for which I can't find a datasheet. As you mentioned the jumpers are on the other side of the board which could cause issues but speedsys still reports the correct values.

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-04-14, 04:54:
Pull all cards, go minimal with different cards. […]
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Pull all cards, go minimal with different cards.

I’m going to assume turbo button isn’t functional, but you could try a jumper on the pins (though that probably isn’t it)

Try a benchmarking comparison like speedsys. Are the benchmarks also lower?

Pull that cf card out. Bull the floppy cable out.

I can toggle turbo on and off with CTRL + ALT + "+-". There doesn't seem to be a physical jumper on the board.

I got one more interesting result from the cache check on Speedsys. It looks like the L1 cache access has issues. I am not sure how the cache management works but this could explain the slowness. Below are two pictures with Level 1 cache disabled (first picture) and Level 1 cache enabled (second picture) . The issue is visible with L1 disabled as well which I don't fully understand. Any ideas what would cause such behavior?

Reply 4 of 9, by MikeSG

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What voltage RAM are you using now? Does it stay at the right voltage through the tests?

Reply 5 of 9, by Sphere478

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Those graphs very unusual I kind of suspect that you might have damaged your North Bridge.

I believe you said you tried other CPUs, and had the same result I hate to say it, but my hunch is that you have damaged silicone on that board. You can of course continue testing. I may be incorrect, but at this point that is what I am thinking.

Try different ram, maybe Simms if the board supports them

You can also try settings in the bios that deal with caching policies

The fact that this is even stable at all, does still make me wonder about some sort of turbo feature

I don’t bother reading your Clock pin while running, the probe may slip

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 6 of 9, by sp3hybrid

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Thank you for the additional suggestions. I tried both 5V EDO DIMM ram as well as 3.3V SD-RAM. Both work the same (still 25% speed). I am able to get through all benchmarks (doom, quake, etc), just at slow speeds. It is consistently at around 25%. So basically I have a nice 486 DX 33 here.

At this point I am also leaning to a damaged chip set. One indication for this is that the 1.15 kHz tone emitted from the PC speaker is present without anything on the board (no processor, ram, cards, EEProm), so it is being driven without code. The signal is a PWM like square wave oscillating between 4V and 5V. Quite strange.

Thank you again for all the suggestions. I think I will put this back on the shelve for now. I am not quite ready to move it into the donor pile yet though. I was hoping for potentially some damaged passive components but haven't found anything obvious and I don't know how passive components would lead to the observed L1 cache behavior.

Thank you again

Reply 8 of 9, by Nexxen

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I had something similar with dead L2 cache chips.
Not that it's the case here. Just adding info.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 9 of 9, by CoffeeOne

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sp3hybrid wrote on 2024-04-14, 20:10:
Thank you for the additional suggestions. I tried both 5V EDO DIMM ram as well as 3.3V SD-RAM. Both work the same (still 25% spe […]
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Thank you for the additional suggestions. I tried both 5V EDO DIMM ram as well as 3.3V SD-RAM. Both work the same (still 25% speed). I am able to get through all benchmarks (doom, quake, etc), just at slow speeds. It is consistently at around 25%. So basically I have a nice 486 DX 33 here.

At this point I am also leaning to a damaged chip set. One indication for this is that the 1.15 kHz tone emitted from the PC speaker is present without anything on the board (no processor, ram, cards, EEProm), so it is being driven without code. The signal is a PWM like square wave oscillating between 4V and 5V. Quite strange.

Thank you again for all the suggestions. I think I will put this back on the shelve for now. I am not quite ready to move it into the donor pile yet though. I was hoping for potentially some damaged passive components but haven't found anything obvious and I don't know how passive components would lead to the observed L1 cache behavior.

Thank you again

It's always the RAM.
If possible try 2 times 72pin EDO RAM, like 2 times 8MB, 2 times 16MB or 2 times 32MB.
EDO DIMMs are quite exotic and normal SDRAM possibly too new or too high density for the board.