I have a Stealth 3D 2000. That's an original ViRGE card. Very good DOS support. Very compatible and fast enough for just about anything I know of.

The Stealth 32 is ET4000 W32p, I believe. That card is going to be slower for Windows (not that the other one is lightning quick by modern terms..) It's very compatible too, probably equally, and quite fast for DOS. One thing I don't like about Stealth 32 is that the Windows drivers are pretty poor and it's really tricky to set refresh rates.

With the 3D 2000, you can play around with some of the ViRGE ports out there. Terminal Velocity, Tomb Raider, etc. That's probably worth going for. The card is useless for Direct3D, but the ViRGE-specific ports (S3D) are actually quite playable.

Yeah, I'm quite interested in the ViRGE ports of games. Still looking for Descent with the Virge support and FX Fighter Turbo, which has support for Virge chipsets, I think.

You might consider getting the Stealth3D 3000 that uses VRAM instead of DRAM 😀 I have 2000 and 3000, there is a speed boost 😀

keropi wrote:

You might consider getting the Stealth3D 3000 that uses VRAM instead of DRAM I have 2000 and 3000, there is a speed boost

Interesting. I also remember something about the VRAM as in Virge/VX being slower than the Virge/325 due to slower core setting.
But since you have both and have seen the improvement, I might reconsider.

really? I have a 2000pro/4MB and a 3000/4MB ... if the 3000 was slower I would surelly remember it... maybe I test again? I just used PCPBench

Yeah I recall that from reviews of the 3D 3000 as well. It is slower for 3D but somewhat better for Windows 2D because of the dual-ported VRAM. The 3D 2000s use EDO DRAM though and that does close the gap with VRAM compared to the old FP DRAM.

I had a 3D 3000 once with a RAM expansion attached for 8MB (I think). Its 2D was pretty blurry though. That was very disappointing. The 3D 2000s are better but I had two at one point and one was clearer than the other!

that could be the case, pcpbench is a 2D benchmark actually... I wonder how to measure the virge3D modes...

swaaye wrote:

Yeah I recall that from reviews of the 3D 3000 as well. It is slower for 3D but somewhat better for Windows 2D because of the dual-ported VRAM. The 3D 2000s use EDO DRAM though and that does close the gap with VRAM compared to the old FP DRAM.

I had a 3D 3000 once with a RAM expansion attached for 8MB (I think). Its 2D was pretty blurry though. That was very disappointing. The 3D 2000s are better but I had two at one point and one was clearer than the other!

Blurriness is one of my pet hates. That's one reason I like Matrox cards.

@keropi
Could you test one thing for me on your Diamond Stealth 3D 3000?
Does the card display the ingame graphics of Jazz Jackrabbit (Epic Megagames) correctly? Shareware version will do.

5u3 wrote:

@keropi
Could you test one thing for me on your Diamond Stealth 3D 3000?
Does the card display the ingame graphics of Jazz Jackrabbit (Epic Megagames) correctly? Shareware version will do.

I can't confirm a 3000, but a 2000 will play the game correctly.

I consider my 3D 2000 my most VESA compatible card. It's from the era of S3's stranglehold on the cheap vid card market. It works with every game I've tried.

Yes, I'm aware that the DRAM-based S3 Trio/Virge cards are very compatible and among the best choices for retro gaming. 😀

But I wonder if this is also true for VRAM models. I suspect there are problems with certain ModeX games.

my god you are right! 2000pro is BETTER than the 3000/8MB !!!
I did some tests on my K6II/450 running the k6 optimization prog for vga...

PCPBENCH stealth3000/8MB (NOLFB) -> 30.4 fps
PCPBEENCH stealth2000pro/4MB (NOLFB) -> 37.5 fps
PCPBEENCH stealth2000pro/4MB (LFB) -> 55.3 fps

I could not get the stealth3000 to do an LFB mode (did not try display doctor) but the 2000pro is indeed faster!
also tried Jazz Jackrabbit on the 3000, it runs flawlessly with smooth scrolling and no pallete errors.

Seems like the Stealth 2000 is winning the hearts all over.

keropi wrote:

also tried Jazz Jackrabbit on the 3000, it runs flawlessly with smooth scrolling and no pallete errors.

Thanks for testing! I had this theory that non-DRAM cards always have problems in ModeX, but apparently it depends on the chipset after all. S3 seems to have got it right, much unlike Matrox and Tseng 😉

yes, the 2000pro is great, I had one when they where new on my p200mmx machine. Never had any probs with it 😀 The reason I got it was because I saw shots on a magazine that had CROC with virge/3D and software mode 😁 The virge3D shots where better 🤣
The card never failed me in windows or DOS. I was so pleased that when vooodoo2 was released I got a p2/400 machine with it and used a Diamond Speedstar A55 card for 2D. It worked perfect too in DOS AFAIR.
I also notice on my k6II machine that voodoo3/3000/AGP works perfect in DOS too!

People tend to judge the S3 Virge cards only by their laughable performance as 3D accelerators (the world's first "graphics decelerator" 🤣).
Therefore S3 Virge cards have the image of a very lame product, and the virtues of these cards (fast performance in DOS/2D modes and have a rather good VESA 2.0 BIOS) are often overseen.

well said 5u3 !

The Virge is painstakingly slow in D3D.I've got 3 of em here from the old times and they all work but I really can't stand them.Even Tomb Raider is sometimes slow with the patch applied.