>Am I correct: To use a daughterboard without any drivers, I require a
>hardware MPU-401 interface on the card, as in old SB16s?
You need a ISA/PCI soundcard with a waveblaster connector which is interfaced as an MPU-401, preferably in hardware. Many brands had this feature. SB16/AWE32 may give you stuck notes on their MPU-401.

>Ist this interface still present in the AWE32? Or will a real daughterboard
>require a TSR and fail in protected mode?
Don't know for sure..

>Is there any point in filling the empty ram sockets on a AWE32 for gaming?
Only if you play your (Dos) games from within windows 9X.

>Does an ES1868F based card provide a real MPU-401?
Yes, UART mode, good enough for gaming.

>Do we have a list of cards that can drive a daughterboard with a real MPU-401?
To many to list. examples:
Many ISA cards with a crystal CS4232/4235/4237 chipset
Many ESS based cards later then the 688 chipset.

ux-3 wrote:

Ist this interface still present in the AWE32? Or will a real daughterboard require a TSR and fail in protected mode?

DBs on AWE32 cards work exactly like on SB16: No extra drivers required.
The infamous AWEUTIL TSR is only needed if you want to route MIDI to the EMU8K chip.

Thank you for the speedy reply!

gerwin wrote:

>Does an ES1868F based card provide a real MPU-401?
Yes, UART mode, good enough for gaming.

Apologies for being so uninformed on this topic, but I never before owned a daughterboard.
If I get my chineese Nec-yamaha clone and I stick it to my ES1868F in DOS, use the DOS mixer to make sure there is a volume assciated with it, it will play when I select GM or Roland? Even in protected mode? No TSR?

I had a SB32 and a SB AWE64 Gold, and got them to play Midi in some games, but I newer used any "real" stuff.

Does my favorite ESS Solo1 have a hardware UART interface too? It has the connector. The ESS 688 has a connector too, but from what I read, it has no function (needs ESS 1688 for that).

My 1 buck CT-3980 (SB AWE32 full length) just arrived. 😀
Is there anything I should know to avoid wasting hours?

5u3 wrote:

DBs on AWE32 cards work exactly like on SB16: No extra drivers required.
The infamous AWEUTIL TSR is only needed if you want to route MIDI to the EMU8K chip.

Sounds good, just that V413 will still have stuck notes and SBpro will be garbled Mono. The ES1868F has no stuck notes bug?

Edit: Two short questios regarding my SB AWE32
Is that Spdif connector in or out?
What is the difference between my AWE32 (CT-3980) and the CT-3990 shown on Wikipedia? The layout differs somewhat.

ux-3 wrote:

My 1 buck CT-3980 (SB AWE32 full length) just arrived. 😀
Is there anything I should know to avoid wasting hours?

Yes. Decide which resources you want to use for the card and ensure they are free before you install the card. This spares you a lot of haggling with the Creative PnP utilities.

If your AWE came without drivers, I recommend getting them from Creative's support site.

ux-3 wrote:

Is that Spdif connector in or out?

The SP/DIF connector is an output. Note that it only carries the output of the EMU8K chip and FM sound. This limitation is caused by the quirky hardware design - there is no way to route the CODEC or analogue inputs to the SP/DIF output.

ux-3 wrote:

What is the difference between my AWE32 (CT-3980) and the CT-3990 shown on Wikipedia? The layout differs somewhat.

The CT3980 is one of the last models to use the original Yamaha OPL3 (integrated into the CT1978 chip). CT3990 comes with Creative's own solution called CQM, which sounds different.

5u3 wrote:

If your AWE came without drivers, I recommend getting them from Creative's support site.

I think I grabbed a DL that Swaaye had linked too. Took me some time to remember. I still need the midi files for MT32 and GS. They are called SynthMT.sbk and SynthGS.sbk

I guess I need them for propper emulation. Does anyone know where I could grab them?

Other than that I suddenly remember why I hated the card back then. You have to run tons of stuff under DOS to get it to even play a simple SB1 game:

- CTCM
- Diagnose
- Mixerset
- aweutil

With my SB16, none of it is neccesairy.

5u3 wrote:

The CT3980 is one of the last models to use the original Yamaha OPL3 (integrated into the CT1978 chip). CT3990 comes with Creative's own solution called CQM, which sounds different.

Glad to hear that. Somehow I fear that I wouldn't like to hear a sound different from my retro-memories.

Still, I don't like this driver mess! 4 files plus extras must launch to get this card going in DOS.

Do I need any extras for win98se or are the native 98se drivers enough. I didn't see where to load soundfonts yet. Presumably, 98se doesn't cover that?

5u3 wrote:

The CT3980 is one of the last models to use the original Yamaha OPL3 (integrated into the CT1747 chip).

Fixed that for you. 😀

Cloudschatze wrote:

5u3 wrote:

The CT3980 is one of the last models to use the original Yamaha OPL3 (integrated into the CT1747 chip).

Fixed that for you. 😀

Ah, thanks! 😉
Somehow I manage to get this wrong every time...

ux-3 wrote:

Other than that I suddenly remember why I hated the card back then. You have to run tons of stuff under DOS to get it to even pl […]
Show full quote

Other than that I suddenly remember why I hated the card back then. You have to run tons of stuff under DOS to get it to even play a simple SB1 game:

- CTCM
- Diagnose
- Mixerset
- aweutil

With my SB16, none of it is neccesairy.

You are wrong.
There are 3 types of cards:
Type 1
everything is jumperable
just SET BLASTER=resources
if you dont know what the card is jumpered, run diagnose /s which will set the BLASTER variable.

Type 2
only I/O Port is jumperable of the main resources. (IOS)
this is a semi PnP Version which requires a software to set IRQ/DMA.
do a SET BLASTER=resources with your jumpered IO address and desired resources for IRQ/DMA
then run diagnose /s afterwards to configure accordingly.

Type 3:
fully PnP no jumpers for resources
Set in BIOS PnP OS to YES and check with resources = manual of nothing is reserved (all PCI/ISA PnP), except you got a non PnP ISA card additionally.
edit ctpnp.cfg and enter your desired setting, set the file read only.
run ctcm.exe
BLASTER will be set afterwards.
if ctcm.exe fails check if there are resource conflicts with other hardware and your desired resource setting.

I havent run into any other Creative ISA soundcards yet.
Run MIXERSET afterwards and on AWE32 aweutil /s

Usually setting this up is done in minutes 😀

We are talking type 3 here. I figured it out eventually. Still, some DOS games don't run. So why bother?

And every time I boot, I must run CTCM, Mixerset and AWEutil, according to your own statement. Perhaps diagnose need not run? Still a mess.

Does Type 1 even exist for AWE32?

Well all of these are no TSR.
ctcm is for hardware configuration, mixerset is for volume and aweutil sets the emu8k opl routing and reverb.
For basic function you can skip mixerset and aweutil. (it is mixerset /q btw).
It is not too bad that for the different functions the programs are seperated.

ux-3 wrote:

Still, some DOS games don't run. So why bother?

Could you give an example? AFAIK games that don't run with an AWE32 wouldn't work with a plain SB16 in the same way.

elianda wrote:

Well all of these are no TSR. ... For basic function you can skip mixerset and aweutil. (it is mixerset /q btw). It is not too b […]
Show full quote

Well all of these are no TSR.
...
For basic function you can skip mixerset and aweutil. (it is mixerset /q btw).
It is not too bad that for the different functions the programs are seperated.

Well, you can't skip aweutil. Tried it, no music, not even in sb1 games like wing commander. I also tried skipping others, with no good result.

There may be advantages this way, but first install is haunting, and I followed the instructions. I didn't know about ctpnp.cfg though. Mixerset needs a /p iirc, the /q is just for quiet display.

5u3 wrote:

ux-3 wrote:

Still, some DOS games don't run. So why bother?

Could you give an example? AFAIK games that don't run with an AWE32 wouldn't work with a plain SB16 in the same way.

Archimedean Dynasty 3dfx crashed every time. Dos Glide! Sb16 worked right away. Also, disableing internal cache will crash the system with the awe32. Didn't like that either. So I made up my mind for now.

I must correct myself: When I tried again today (checking after testing the waveblaster on the AWE32), archimedean dynasty worked flawlessly. So I must still have had configuration problems the other day.

OK, the daughterboards are both here now. I have a waveblaster and a yamaha clone by NEC. Says yamaha on most chips. Both play fine when I select General MIDI. Especially older games like Wing Commander do not offer this particular general. IIrc, there was a way to get GS or MT working on a Yamaha DB60XG. Could someone point me to a thread, page or DL-link for this?
Thanks!

Hier ist das MIDI.

Thanks!
And the next question is:
What do I do with it? I only have the naked board. Any thread where I can read up?