^ Very interesting explanation. Thanks a lot for the info. 😀

Malik wrote:

Yes, thought the same too. Didn't find any difference now with the sound cards and using a separate gamecard. Maybe by the time Creative Labs started the trend of including gameport in almost every card they made, the tech has become so much more advanced that there's no need to get a separate card?

I think that's what happened. I think joysticks were an early IBM PC addon because most other contemporary home computers had joystick support built-in and the IBM PC did not, which was something very noticeable to consumers. Sound cards didn't come along until a little bit later when game companies like Sierra started to help push them, both because they were a bit more expensive and because the PC already did have sound (albeit from the terrible single-voice square wave PC speaker!).

I also wonder what they meant by "speed compensation" which is printed at the back of the box. I have a Gravis Game Card with the Speed Calibration Dial, which can be attached to the card. It helps me in calibrating the joysticks, and mainaining a synchronized ratio of 1.0 (Whatever that means or does. All Iknow from the manual is that I should match the calibration ratio of 1:1, i.e. 1.0) Perhaps the synchronized ratio will help in maintaining constant or more synchronized joystick movement and it's resultant movement in a game. And the box says that it's compatible with XT 4Mhz - 486's 99MHz. I guess newer systems does not require that "speed compensation"?

Not quite sure. My joystick card didn't have that, nor did any sound card I used. I guess maybe some games had timing issues that affected joystick input quality?

Those speed-adjustable game port cards were made for compatibility reasons. When playing games made for PC/XT on an AT/386 computer, the joystick often wouldn't work any more.
This is because of a design flaw in the PC game port, which makes it extremely dependent on CPU speed. Old games did not compensate for this, so the only way to fix it was to buy a (very cheap) speed-adjustable game port card.

Nicer models could set the speed compensation via software (e.g.: the game port on the classic Gravis Ultrasound).

The Gravis Game Card I mentioned :

Nice! 😎 😀

Interesting, I'm going to have to check if I have my old gameport card still and compare its board layout to those box shots.

My joystick arrived in the post. The first one, the one I ordered several weeks ago. I opened a paypal dispute saying "no item arrived", and whadda ya know, it arrives a few days later. No comms from the seller. Some people are a bit odd. Anyway, it's a Mikomi QF-668IP. (3rd image). The resistence is a lot different to the Top Gun joystick - there's hardly any at all. That makes moving the stick around a lot easier.

Also, I bought the updated TIE Fighter & X-Wing, for Windows 95. It has a comprehensive joystick settings area. You can set up all kinds of sticks, and assign the buttons. But there's one thing missing - you can't use a mouse, if you decide you don't want to use a joystick. On the 2 CDs, there is the Star Wars audio tracks. The graphics look improved, but when I move around in the game, the scrolling isn't as smooth as the old DOS version. I think I will stick to the DOS version.

Part of the reason why Creatives Sound Blaster was so successful was because they included a joystick port.

So instead of buying Adlib and a joystick card, you would just buy a single Sound Blaster. At least with the very fist Sound Blaster this was a big plus.

...as well as the JS port including MIDI capability 😀

retro games 100 wrote:

Also, I bought the updated TIE Fighter & X-Wing, for Windows 95.

No!!!! Stay away from that one, the CD audio track based music pales in comparison to the dynamic iMUSE MIDI soundtrack of the DOS versions.

HunterZ wrote:

retro games 100 wrote:

Also, I bought the updated TIE Fighter & X-Wing, for Windows 95.

No!!!! Stay away from that one, the CD audio track based music pales in comparison to the dynamic iMUSE MIDI soundtrack of the DOS versions.

Hehe! Yes I know. I just couldn't resist buying a cheap copy on ebay, just to see (or rather hear) for myself. I have since turned away from this dark side, and gone back to the good wholesome DOS version.

HunterZ wrote:

retro games 100 wrote:

Also, I bought the updated TIE Fighter & X-Wing, for Windows 95.

No!!!! Stay away from that one, the CD audio track based music pales in comparison to the dynamic iMUSE MIDI soundtrack of the DOS versions.

But the graphics are improved right? And maybe they fixed some other bugs and game play issues?

So it's better graphics against better music. Tough choice 🤣

I think I have an idea about the "Speed Compensating" thing which is mentioned on the gamecard box.

I recently tried A-10 Tank Killer v1.5 in the P133 system. The joystick (Jane's Combatstick behaved erratically : Pulling back the stick did't do anything. I can bank/turn left and right, dive the nose, but can't lift up. The Pro Throttle on the other hand does not have any problems. I switched the speed to 66Mhz, but still the problem persisted, sometimes working and sometimes not.

I disabled the internal cache to bring it down to an AT level 12Mhz, and then, the games works flawlessly with the joystick!

I was using the AWE32's gameport for this. To confirm if this is meant by speed compensation, I still need to check the joystick's function using the gamecard, at full speed.

On another note, Microprose's F-117A Nighthawk, didn't face such problem, even at full speed. I guess, perhaps the way it was programmed to make use of the joystick...

A quick update : Gamecard doesn't change anything. I still need to put the P133 into "286 mode" to make sure the A-10 works correctly with the joystick. So I removed the gamecard and stuck with using the awe32's gameport.

I think I need to test more with the Gamecard :

Just received the Thrustmaster TopGun Joystick today, which came with the user manual. I have taken pictures of the notes emphasizing on the need for a Gamecard in fast systems.

It's interesting to note that Pentium is mentioned. Maybe the said Thrustmaster gamecard is more suitable in Pentiums.

Another keyword is the "heat drift" mentioned in the second picture.

I think I'll reinsert the Gamecard and test again. Will have to remove the Sound Master II. Hmmm..even having 4 ISA slots seems not enough in the 21st century! 😁

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

HunterZ wrote:

retro games 100 wrote:

Also, I bought the updated TIE Fighter & X-Wing, for Windows 95.

No!!!! Stay away from that one, the CD audio track based music pales in comparison to the dynamic iMUSE MIDI soundtrack of the DOS versions.

But the graphics are improved right? And maybe they fixed some other bugs and game play issues?

So it's better graphics against better music. Tough choice 🤣

I owned the original floppy version of X-Wing and played it to death 😁

When I upgraded to a Win98 machine I also got a copy of the Windows version and played it for a while too.

In my opinion the DOS version is superior. The iMUSE soundtrack is awesome and really helps immerse you in the game. The windows version just loops CD audio from the movies.
Also, you miss out on the interstitial cutscenes- For example, in the DOS version after a mission you get a small cutscene showing your fighter landing in the mothership, and if you had taken hull damage you'd see dudes running around, welding it as you climb out 😁 It was actually really satisfying to watch after a hard mission (and XWing was full of those). You miss all of those in the windows version.

The only other thing the Windows version has going for it is that you can hit <enter> to match the targeted craft's speed which isn't available in the DOS version. Personally, I don't think that or better graphics make up for the other losses.

Anyway as far as joysticks go - I used to have a Rockfire Avant Garde back in the DOS days and it was quite a good joystick, although I never played a game that used more than 2 buttons 😜 the hat switch and other buttons didn't function in anything I tried.

Reading that last post- heat drift is an interesting concept. I believe I had a lot of problems with needing to recalibrate my joysticks (not just with the above one but others as well) during long gaming sessions. I was using the gameport on an SB16 though. I always blamed the joysticks but maybe it wasn't the culprit after all.

The higher resolution and speed-matching features in the Windows version of X-Wing would be nice to have in the DOS version, but at least the DOS version of TIE Fighter has both features.

The DOS CD-ROM versions of both X-Wing and TIE Fighter are highly polished. I'm not aware of any notable bugs in either game. It's worth noting that the DOS CD-ROM versions of both X-Wing and TIE Fighter are already remakes/enhancements of the original floppy versions.

Just received this joystick today :

Never thought it was factory sealed. Opening it for the first time in 16 years. Already have a Mark II WCS to complement this joystick.

Best part is that :

it came with a full version of Fleet Defender (F-14B) Simulation from Microprose. Complete with the thick manual, keys summary card and registration form.

Also, the manual has more information on joystick ports and the game card. Thought of sharing the literature :

very nice

DOS joysticks used DB15 connectors, which carried 4 analog axes and 4 buttons (originally intended for use with two 2-axis, 2-button analog joysticks). The most fancy of DOS joysticks, which used special encodings to add more buttons, top hats, etc. required specific game support rather than using drivers.

I thought I remember twisting some joysticks for a 3rd axis. Z-axis maybe? If so, was this not possible in pure dos on a joystick port to do a z-axis spin? I really thought I did that in TIE Fighter.

I can't seem to find a joystick that has the twist that is not called a "digital" one. The Sidewinder 3D Pro (i think that's the first one) is considered digital but yet it has DB15. Can anyone clarify this for me what i'm missing? DB15 can be analog but also digital? And later ones with DB15 could be converted to USB?

According to wikipedia, The Sidewinder 3D Pro worked for MechWarrior 2 in pure dos so.... *shrug*

OK let's say i love TIE Fighter. What's the best joystick for that specific game? If i get that one, should I have most other covered?