VOGONS


First post, by GeorgeMan

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Hello everyone! I need to keep 4-6 of the following systems. 2-3 with a 15" CRT monitor for older games and software (DOS & Win 3.1) and 2-3 with a 19" CRT for newer games & software (Win 95 & Win 98SE).

So please help me, which ones and with which sound card?

1 - desktop
* 386SX/25 | no cache | 4MB Ram FPM
* 512KB VGA onboard | onboard controller
* HDD 425MB | serial mouse | no cd-rom

2 - tower
* 386DX/40 | ? cache | 8MB Ram FPM
* 1MB ISA Diamond Speedstar 24x VGA | ISA I/O controller
* HDD 425MB | serial mouse | cd-rom depending on sound card

3 - full tower
* 486DX2/66 | 256KB cache | 20MB Ram FPM
* 1MB ISA Tseng ET4000AX VGA | ISA I/O controller
* HDD 500MB | serial mouse | cd-rom depending on sound card

4 - tower
* 486DX4/120 | 256KB cache | 32MB Ram FPM
* 1MB VLB Cirrus Logic GD-5424 VGA | VLB I/O controller
* HDD 1.7GB | serial mouse | cd-rom depending on sound card

5 - desktop
* Pentium 120 socket5 | 256KB cache | 64MB Ram EDO
* 1MB VGA onboard + 4MB 3dfx Voodoo PCI | onboard controller PIO
* HDD 1.7GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom

6 - tower
* Pentium MMX 233 | 256KB cache | 64MB SDRam
* 4MB PCI VGA + 12MB 3dfx Voodoo2 PCI | onboard controller UDMA
* HDD 3GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom | USB

7 - tower
* AMD K6-300 | 512KB cache | 128MB SDRam
* 4MB PCI VGA + 12MB 3dfx Voodoo2 PCI | onboard controller UDMA
* HDD 3.2GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom | USB

8 - tower
* AMD K6-III 400MHz | 1MB cache | 128ΜΒ SDRam
* 16MB Voodoo3 2000 AGP | onboard controller UDMA
* HDD 6.4GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom | USB

9 - tower
* Pentium III 750 slot1 AT | 256KB cache | 256MB SDRam
* 16MB Voodoo3 3000 AGP | onboard controller UDMA
* HDD 80GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom | USB

10 - ATX tower
* Pentium III 933 | 256KB cache | 512MB SDRam
* 16MB Voodoo3 3000 AGP or 64MB Radeon 7000 | onboard controller UDMA
* HDD 80GB | PS/2 mouse | cd-rom | USB

--> Sound card choices <--
* Opti16 ISA
* Soundblaster 16 Value ISA + IDE
* Soundblaster 16 ISA + IDE + real OPL
* Vibra 16S ISA + IDE + real OPL
* 2x CT4810 (Soundblaster PCI 128) PCI
* SB0220 Live! 5.1 Digital EMU10K PCI
* SB0060 Live! 5.1 EMU10K PCI

Notes:
I would prefer not to use an ATX system (no10). Everything vintage is AT in my mind. 😀
Does Opti16 have any compatibility in DOS?
I would prefer to use the 2 desktop systems because I like them.

So which ones I should choose, why, and with which sound cards?

Thanks!

PS: I will be limited to games & software until year 2000.

Core i7-13700 | 32G DDR4 | Biostar B760M | Nvidia RTX 3060 | 32" AOC 75Hz IPS + 17" DEC CRT 1024x768 @ 85Hz
Win11 + Virtualization => Emudeck @consoles | pcem @DOS~Win95 | Virtualbox @Win98SE & softGPU | VMware @2K&XP | ΕΧΟDΟS

Reply 2 of 11, by Skyscraper

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Sell system 1 keep system 2, underclock if necessary.
Sell system 3 keep system 4, underclock if necassary.
Sell system 5 keep system 6, underclock to 200 MHz to avoid Pascal compiler bugs.
Sell system 7 keep system 8 but store it (Super socket 7 systems are geting hard to replace).
Keep one of the Pentium 3 systems.
If you keep the AT 440BX? P3 system then look for a 900 or 1000(100) mhz CPU and upgrade the memory to 512MB.
Also I would keep all Voodoo cards and sell the systems with random PCI / AGP cards from the junk pile.

Those soundcards are not that special so keep a working one for each system you keep.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 3 of 11, by GeorgeMan

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Yup I know about the sound cards, I'm not searching for rare hardware, just compatible to play old games 😁

The slot1 AT system is VIA Apollo Pro based and does not support 133MHz FSB. So I bought the cheapest slot1 PIII FSB100 CPU I could find. Both of you said not to keep the system 1 and 5, the only desktop type computers I have and I like them. Why? Are they so bad?

I don't want to keep the ATX system for the reason I explained in the 1st post. I'd keep it only if the AT PIII system is not powerful enough for games up to 2000. Is it not?

Actually, I was thinking of keeping the systems 1 (because it's a desktop), 3 (the "classic" 486 into a big AT full tower case which I like), 4 (to have one VLB system), 5 (desktop, pentium, socket5, 3d accelerator for 1st gen glide games, is it not powerful enough for them?), 7 (like 6 but more powerful) and 9.
Am I thinking not right?

The memory on the system 9 will be upgraded to 512MB, that's a good idea!

Core i7-13700 | 32G DDR4 | Biostar B760M | Nvidia RTX 3060 | 32" AOC 75Hz IPS + 17" DEC CRT 1024x768 @ 85Hz
Win11 + Virtualization => Emudeck @consoles | pcem @DOS~Win95 | Virtualbox @Win98SE & softGPU | VMware @2K&XP | ΕΧΟDΟS

Reply 4 of 11, by Mau1wurf1977

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386DX-40 is a classic. If you like a desktop, put the parts into the desktop case.
486DX2-66 is THE 486. DX4 isn't necessary, it doesn't make games run smooth that the DX2 struggles with. For that the Pentium will take care.
6 because 8 has a Voodoo3 which I believe isn't as compatible for early glide games.
10 because it is ATX. ATX is good 😀

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Reply 5 of 11, by Skyscraper

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I would always keep the faster one of two simular systems, at least as long as underclocking is possible.

When it comes to the two 486 systems I would keep the DX4 system especially if the DX2 system is ISA only.
If you need a DX2 66 underclock the DX4 to 2*33 or 3*25 mhz.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 6 of 11, by Robin4

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I think its very hard to choose.. It just really what you want to expected from those machines. An 386 DX 40 is a very nice system. But for some much older games (like on XT and 286-12) Its just to speedy, also when you going to use the turbo button.. Then its better to go for the 386 SX 25mhz system (its runs like a speedy 286 system, but when using turbo buttom it would be much slower, then using the 386 DX40 and using the turbo button) And then probably better go for the 486 DX2 66 system. My opinion about that 486 system> It should run the most software just right as needed.. But like doom i prefer a faster system, it runs on a 66mhz system. But on playing its just a little bit `jaggy`(doesnt run smooth) on a system like 100mhz / 120Mhz its runs just without `jaggy` and reacts more speedy. Maybe its a better idea to swap parts to different systems so to configure a better possible system..

By myself i prefer a faster 486 system ( i think of 80/120 mhz system), then go for the 66mhz part. The 66mhz runs almost everything keep that in mind.. But for harder tasks its just a little bit to slow..

System 5 can go away.. The pentium 233mhz would also run all pentium / windows 95 software just fine..
System 7 can go away
System 8 can go away..

For myself i prefer to go for a slower windows 98 se system and a faster 98 system.. For the slower part ill take the Pentium III 550 mhz (i had a Pentium II 400Mhz for now, but want to use voodoo 2 SLI and it scales better with a processor like 550mhz / 600 mhz.. I think that 600mhz would be to fast for an slower windows 98 se system.. So 550mhz would be the max for me..
For an faster windows 98 se system i have chosen to go for an athlon XP processor.. Because for me it didnt mind if i should go for an pentium III tualatin.. Those tualatins arent easy to get.. I didnt wanted it to make it to difficult on those systems, so thats why i chosen for the athlon xp processor (i think its an 2600+ on which would do fine) running on a soltek slot A motherboard with SD-RAM for easier memory installation (have enough of those dimms laying here around.

I self have chosen to go for the 80386 40 mhz because iam also going to use an XT machine, and a normal speed 80286 12 mhz system which should do fine on running that period 286 games.
So if you dont have any 286, or XT compatible machine, i prefer to choose the slower 386 machine instead.. Only downside is its only have 4 simm slots mostly.. So you can`t install 8MB memory on those boards i guess because those 30 pins simms have to be installed in pairs of 4 parts.. So 4x 1MB will give you 4Mb and 4x4MB wil give you 16MB

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 7 of 11, by obobskivich

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10 looks like a winner - I'd throw the better of the Live! cards in there too. Probably go with the Radeon; should make a fairly stout Win98SE box.

I'd look at "combining" 6 and 7 if possible - if you can get SLI, more RAM, and both disks in whichever has the better motherboard you should be doing pretty well there.

And if you could throw the Voodoo in the DX4 that'd probably be my third vote. But I doubt that would be really necessary with a Voodoo2/MMX system next door.

Reply 8 of 11, by dirkmirk

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Forgive my ignorance but what games run too fast on a 386DX-40 and are they worth playing anyway? Alleycat is the only one I can think of and If I needed to play it I reckon dosbox is a better option.

ISA system - 386DX40
VLB system - 486DX2/AM5x86-133-160 (Whatever cpu you like)
PCI - tough one, you could have anything from a 5x86 to a pentium 2.
AGP system - Super socket 7 or Slot 1 or socket 370 with isa slot for sound.

I try to keep it simple that as each system has a different video bus card slot, keeps things interesting.

Reply 9 of 11, by retrofanatic

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GeorgeMan wrote:
Hello everyone! I need to keep 4-6 of the following systems. 2-3 with a 15" CRT monitor for older games and software (DOS & Win […]
Show full quote

Hello everyone! I need to keep 4-6 of the following systems. 2-3 with a 15" CRT monitor for older games and software (DOS & Win 3.1) and 2-3 with a 19" CRT for newer games & software (Win 95 & Win 98SE).

So please help me, which ones and with which sound card?

1 - desktop
* 386SX/25 | no cache | 4MB Ram FPM
* 512KB VGA onboard | onboard controller
* HDD 425MB | serial mouse | no cd-rom

Just my two cents...you should keep the 386SX especially if it has a turbo switch header. Turning off turbo can give you nice 286 level speed that would be nice for the oldest dos games. Unless you don't have a slower computer, you should keep this one to fill that 'void'. Always keep your oldest computer and parts...you never know when you'll want to use it again and if you don't have it, it will be hard to find again.

Reply 10 of 11, by Robin4

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dirkmirk wrote:
Forgive my ignorance but what games run too fast on a 386DX-40 and are they worth playing anyway? Alleycat is the only one I can […]
Show full quote

Forgive my ignorance but what games run too fast on a 386DX-40 and are they worth playing anyway? Alleycat is the only one I can think of and If I needed to play it I reckon dosbox is a better option.

ISA system - 386DX40
VLB system - 486DX2/AM5x86-133-160 (Whatever cpu you like)
PCI - tough one, you could have anything from a 5x86 to a pentium 2.
AGP system - Super socket 7 or Slot 1 or socket 370 with isa slot for sound.

I try to keep it simple that as each system has a different video bus card slot, keeps things interesting.

Wings of Fury runs to speedy on that 386 40 system, also when using the turbo button..
It runs fine on a not to speedy 286 system.

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 11 of 11, by GeorgeMan

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Thank you all for the replies! I read them but I had to test the systems before I posted again!

I'll use two 4-port KVMs, so there was no point in choosing only 3 systems for each monitor, which made the decision much easier!

*For the 15" CRT*
1 -desktop-: 386SX-25 | 4MB ram | 265MB HDD | 512KB onboard vga | onboard IDE controller | PS/2 mouse (has header!!) | floppy | Opti16 ISA sound
2 -tower-: 386DX-40 | 8MB ram | 64KB cache | 425MB HDD + 504MB HDD | 1MB ISA vga WD | ISA 1ch IDE multi controller | serial mouse | floppy | CD-Rom | SB 16 Value ISA
3 -full tower-: 486DX2-66 | 20MB ram | 256KB cache | 504MB HDD +504MB HDD | 1MB ISA vga Tseng | ISA 1ch IDE multi controller | serial mouse | floppy | CD-Rom | SB 16 ISA
4 -tower-: 486DX4-120 | 32MB ram | 256KB cache | 3.2 + 3.2 GB HDDs | 1MB VLB Cirrus Logic VGA | VLB 2ch IDE multi controller | serial mouse | floppy | CD-Rom | SB Vibra16S OPL3 ISA

*For the 19" CRT*
5 -desktop-: P120 socket5 | 64MB EDO ram | 256KB cache | 6.4 + 3.2GB HDDs | 1MB S3 Trio64 onboard + Voodoo 4MB PCI | onboard IDE controller | PS/2 mouse | floppy | CD-RW | CT4810 PCI sound
6 -tower-: P-MMX 233 | 64MB SDR | i430TX mobo | 20+10GB HDDs | 8MB PCI VGA + 12MB Voodoo2 PCI | onboard IDE + USB | PS/2 mouse | floppy | CD-RW | CT4810 PCI sound
8 -tower-: K6-III 400 | 256MB SDR | MVP3 mobo w/1MB cache | 80GB HDD | 16MB Voodoo3 2000 AGP | onboard IDE+USB | PS/2 mouse | DVD-Rom/CD-RW combo | SB0220 PCI sound
9 -tower-: PIII 750 | 512MB SDR | VIA Slot1 mobo AT | 80GB HDD | 16NB Voodoo3 3000 AGP | onboard IDE+USB | PCI USB 2.0 | PS/2 mouse | DVD-RW | SB0060 PCI sound

Notes: Of course many of them overlap the others, so I'll use them much less, but it's always fun to have 2-3 more systems than these you need for backup reasons!
All of them are AT, because if I needed an ATX system, I'd install XP on my i5/Radeon 7870XT and play everything from ATX/XP era till now 🤣

I need to figure out how to remove the 504MB limit in the older systems, because the "504MB HDDs" are actually 850-1.3GB!

Core i7-13700 | 32G DDR4 | Biostar B760M | Nvidia RTX 3060 | 32" AOC 75Hz IPS + 17" DEC CRT 1024x768 @ 85Hz
Win11 + Virtualization => Emudeck @consoles | pcem @DOS~Win95 | Virtualbox @Win98SE & softGPU | VMware @2K&XP | ΕΧΟDΟS